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John 5:28-29 and the resurrection


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I am fairly certain I am in the minority here in regards to my eschatology as I am a historic recapitulationist (Amillenial) and it seems the majority view here is futurist so my question is one of understanding addressed to those who hold to the view that there is a separate resurrection of  godly and the ungodly separated by a millennial age, so here is the question:

In John 5:28-29 we read these words, John 5:28 "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice  and come forth-- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.  

Jesus speaks of a single hour when everyone who has died will, hear his voice and leave there graves to face the judgement, and he makes it very clear what he means by that phrase all who are in the graves as he qualifies with these two statements,  those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 

How does one who believes that there is period of time between these two resurrections handle this text? 

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5 hours ago, Reformed Baptist said:

I am fairly certain I am in the minority here in regards to my eschatology as I am a historic recapitulationist (Amillenial) and it seems the majority view here is futurist so my question is one of understanding addressed to those who hold to the view that there is a separate resurrection of  godly and the ungodly separated by a millennial age, so here is the question:

In John 5:28-29 we read these words, John 5:28 "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice  and come forth-- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.  

Jesus speaks of a single hour when everyone who has died will, hear his voice and leave there graves to face the judgement, and he makes it very clear what he means by that phrase all who are in the graves as he qualifies with these two statements,  those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 

How does one who believes that there is period of time between these two resurrections handle this text? 

Revelation 20:4-5

The first resurrection are those who receive not the mark and are marytred.

Also, those who are stilll alive at His coming, are caught up with them.

They rule and reign a 1000 yrs.

Then it says "The rest of the dead LIVED not again until the thousand years were finished."

Lived is the key word.

The main hangup for humans is their limited viewpoint on the totality of time.

We hear someone speak on a subject and assume that they see like we do and when they speak of two different groups of people in one paragraph, we ASSUME, they speak of one moment in time.

Of course all through the bible God speaks plainly (to Him plainly) but the subject matter has nothing to do with the time period they are in at the time.

He doesnt care to elaborate as much as we want.

He knows someone will understand eventually.

I mean it plainly states in Rev 20 that the martyrs are the FIRST resurrection, if they say FIRST, that means they are trying to tell you there will be ANOTHER resurrection.

First Resurrection/Rapture at His second coming.

Second Resurrection at the end of the 1000 yrs.

The Second resurrection is for everyone who died from Christs resurrection until the Mark was instituted and then those humans who died during the 1000 yrs.

(Funny that the Germans currency is the Mark.)

Anywho, theres an answer sir.

God bless.

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6 hours ago, Reformed Baptist said:

I am fairly certain I am in the minority here in regards to my eschatology as I am a historic recapitulationist (Amillenial) and it seems the majority view here is futurist so my question is one of understanding addressed to those who hold to the view that there is a separate resurrection of  godly and the ungodly separated by a millennial age, so here is the question:

In John 5:28-29 we read these words, John 5:28 "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice  and come forth-- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.  

Jesus speaks of a single hour when everyone who has died will, hear his voice and leave there graves to face the judgement, and he makes it very clear what he means by that phrase all who are in the graves as he qualifies with these two statements,  those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 

How does one who believes that there is period of time between these two resurrections handle this text? 

Oh, I guess I should answer your question too, lol.

On an "hour" is coming.

Ok, soo there are two choices.

From my observations, it looks like He is speaking of the Second Resurrection.

Where "The rest of the dead" are resurrected. Looks like Hes speaking of both groups.

But, we all own stop watches.

Soo, 30 min for first resurrection, 30 min for second resurrection.

There's your hour.

I'll probably stick with the first choice, lol.

Anyway, just because He only mentions the Judgement Resurrection doesnt somehow nullify the first one.

Peace.

 

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Thanks for taking the time to respond to my question.

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First Resurrection/Rapture at His second coming.

Second Resurrection at the end of the 1000 yrs.

The Second resurrection is for everyone who died from Christs resurrection until the Mark was instituted and then those humans who died during the 1000 yrs.

 

and you say

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Ok, soo there are two choices.

From my observations, it looks like He is speaking of the Second Resurrection.

 

So, do you understand the  'all'  in John 5:28 when Jesus refers to 'all who are in the graves' does not include the church because they have already been raised and raptured?  and therefore 'those who have done good' is those who have done good in the millennium - am I understanding you correctly? 

Whilst I can see how that might make sense of the text within pre-mil standpoint, I guess my problem is that I am not convinced the context allows it. I find it strange that Jesus would miss out the 'first resurrection' to which you refer. If what you say is correct Jesus goes from dealing with the here and now (v24-27) and then jumps post millennium without giving us any clue that he has done so, wouldn't a literal reading suggest that Jesus is discussing this age, and then he goes on to what is going to happen next (rather then after several over things have happened that he doesn't mention), in other words doesn't one have to insert a lot into the text that Jesus doesn't say to get to what you are saying, and is that perhaps why you have to begin with Rev 20 to answer a question about John 5? 

Anyway, once again thanks for your answer to my question, i found it very interesting :D 

 

 

 

 

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Reformed Baptist

  John 5:28   Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

  John 5:29   And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The hour that is coming is for all to hear his voice.  That hour is for everyone.  If we are in Christ, our hour is at the fist resurrection, if not in Christ, our hour comes at the 2nd judgement,.. a thousand years later.  We all are going to experience that "hour" in one way or another.  It's our hour of judgement whether good or bad.  Nobody escapes judgement.

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8 hours ago, Reformed Baptist said:

How does one who believes that there is period of time between these two resurrections handle this text? 

"The hour is coming" is a metaphor for "the time is coming".  It is really that simple. Christ's purpose was simply to proclaim that there would be a resurrection for both the saved and the lost.

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15 hours ago, Sister said:

Reformed Baptist

  John 5:28   Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

  John 5:29   And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The hour that is coming is for all to hear his voice.  That hour is for everyone.  If we are in Christ, our hour is at the fist resurrection, if not in Christ, our hour comes at the 2nd judgement,.. a thousand years later.  We all are going to experience that "hour" in one way or another.  It's our hour of judgement whether good or bad.  Nobody escapes judgement.

Thank you for the response, however if that was the case and he is referring to two separate events separated by an age why does he say 'the hour' rather then 'the hours' -  the word is singular and he says in that in this singular period of time all who are in the graves will hear his voice and come forth, he then goes onto explain what he means by 'all', by 'all' he means both those who have done good and those who have done evil. 

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14 hours ago, Ezra said:

"The hour is coming" is a metaphor for "the time is coming". 

I quite agree, it isn't a literal hour :D

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It is really that simple.


 

Again I am in complete agreement with you

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Christ's purpose was simply to proclaim that there would be a resurrection for both the saved and the lost.

Yes, again I agree that Jesus was proclaiming that there would be "a resurrection  [Singular] for both the saved and the lost." That is the point, he refers to one period of time (one moment in history) when all who are in the graves will hear his voice and come out, and to paraphrase his words he says "and when I say all, I mean all the saved and all the unsaved"

If I was to say to you 'there is time coming when everyone in my hometown will hear my voice' how would you understand that - would you think I was speaking about two different times separated by a long period of time or would you understand me to be referring to one one moment in history?

 

 

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5 hours ago, Reformed Baptist said:

That is the point, he refers to one period of time (one moment in history) when all who are in the graves will hear his voice and come out,

It is "one period of time" (NOT one moment in history) but that period extends over at least 1,000 years.  The Bible is  a progressive revelation, so we must keep going until the last book in order to properly understand this "hour". 

Every doctrine must be based on the sum total of all passages which relate to that doctrine. In fact, the first resurrection resembles a Hebrew harvest (which is in three phases) -- first fruits (Christ), main harvest (the Church), gleanings (the Tribulation saints).

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: [1] Christ the firstfruits; [2] afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. [3] Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

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3 hours ago, Ezra said:

It is "one period of time" (NOT one moment in history) but that period extends over at least 1,000 years.  The Bible is  a progressive revelation, so we must keep going until the last book in order to properly understand this "hour". 

Can you point to any other place in scripture where the idiom 'the hour' is used in this same way to refer to two separate events separated by an age of the earth? By that I mean what exegetical reason (as opposed to presuppositional reason) do you have to understand the phrase in that way or, in other words, can you present a linguistic/ exegetical argument rather then bare assertion that this is how we should understand it? 

Bear in mind my friend that the text speaks of only one resurrection, not two "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice"  - how can that be understood to refer to two separate events separated by 1000 years? 

As for progressive revelation I agree with that to a  point - but at the same time we are not Muslims and we do not believe later texts supersede earlier ones - a later text cannot supply a meaning that grammatically impossible to an earlier text, John 5:28-29 is clear that in 'the hour' all are going to hear his voice who are in the graves - the only sense that can be made of that (if words have any meaning) is that.     

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Every doctrine must be based on the sum total of all passages which relate to that doctrine.

Again I agree with the basic premise, except to state that we must take the clear and straightforward passages to explain the ones that are more difficult to understand. 

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In fact, the first resurrection resembles a Hebrew harvest (which is in three phases) -- first fruits (Christ), main harvest (the Church), gleanings (the Tribulation saints).

In regards to the idea of a resurrection representing 'a Hebrew harvest' that is an interesting idea but can you support it? 

I will come onto your 'proof text' in a moment however first i need to point out that I don't see the relevance - it is interesting however to see how I want to talk about a specific text and so far I have been directed to other texts and the text i am talking about is pretty ignored - why is that? 

 

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For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: [1] Christ the firstfruits; [2] afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. [3] Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

 

 

Actually there is only the first fruits and the harvest there, again you are inserting a whole age of the earth that you have absolutely no exegetical warrant to include in your interpretation of that verse. The word 'then' is significant, it means 'following directly on' or 'next' so, we have Christ, then the harvest, immediately followed by the presentation of the kingdom - no 1000 years for a gleaning I am afraid before the kingdom is presented - again your understanding of the text is presuppositional rather the exegetically consistant.  

Anyway Ezra I am grateful for your interaction, and for everybody's, it speaks volumes to me - it seems to me the desire is mostly to explain away John 5:28-29 rather then actually get to grips with what it has to say :D 

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