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Once saved always saved?


BlueMinou

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3 hours ago, BlueMinou said:

the quote you mentioned says "if we deny him, he'll deny us."

That is proof right there that the doctrine of "once saved, always saved is incorrect."

The quote "If we believe not He remaineth faithful, He cannot deny Himself" says that he will remain faithful and that he cannot deny himself; This is no different than the parable of the prodigal son or the story of Hosea remaining faithful to his adulterous wife. The quote says that there is a condition for him to deny us---a situation with which we deny Jesus. Nail in the coffin for demonstrating that OSAS is fallacy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Look if you are saved then THAT is settled, there is no second coming again to die for you, it was a once for all time and eternity. So when Jesus says here He will deny you to the Father it is not in regard to salvation...why are scriptures always read as though they refer to salvation?

 

Did you ever hear of Christians who say God doesn't answer their prayers? or many times.

 

The eternal security is in the very terms themselves....salvation, everlasting life....actually eternal security is rooted in the fact that God decided to save you before the world began...before all your faults and failings and weaknesses.

 

God is well able to chastise and disciple His people without damning them

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2 hours ago, BlueMinou said:

Hebrews 10:36 says "You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised."

And

"But my righteous one will live by faith. And I take no pleasure in the one who shrinks back. But we are not like those who turn away from God to their own destruction. We are the faithful ones, whose souls will be saved."

Hebrews 10 is very clear that one needs to persevere to the end. Jesus himself said "But one who stands firm to the end will be saved."(Matthew 24:13).

there is a judgement for believers, saints...a rewards or losses judgement, it has nothing to do with our eternal destiny...THAT has been dealt with once and forever.

 

I will tell you something

 

You will make little and slow progress in the things of God until you KNOW and are SURE for all time that you are saved, that it is all by God's grace and can never be lost....when the full realisation sinks in it acts like a trigger in you setting you FREE to be everything you want to be in God...at present you are a son of the prophets of baal halting between two opinions, hesitant, looking over your shoulder, fearful, flogging yourself along.

 

No WAY will you come BOLDLY to the throne of grace to find help in time of temptation

 

You won't take on the devil either.....in the back of your mind will be the thought mebbe one day he will get me back in his clutches.

 

These things are averse, the opposite of faith.

 

So when you say "we must persevere".....you have already stumbled.

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On 8/14/2016 at 7:26 PM, BlueMinou said:

Behold,

I have never said God is limited to Baptism only; Neither has the Catholic Church(but I sense this fact escaped you because of ignorance). The Catholic Church has always taught that the thief was saved and has always taught that Baptism is the normal means to received into the Church. 

 

The new testament literally says "Baptism saves you" (1 Peter 3:21). Are you disagreeing with Peter? We are baptized into Christ's death(Romans 6:3) for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38). Jesus commands people to be baptized(Matt 28:19) and to be born again, one needs to be baptized(John 3:5). 

Baptismal Regeneration is not only biblical, it's christian and a teaching taught by Jesus himself and commanded to be observed.

BlueMin, 

Since you brought up "ignorance", let me show you specifically what is ignorant.

"ignorant" is to on  one hand say that "God is not limited to saving people by water baptism", then then next thing you say is that the bible teaches that "water saves us"., and that its an argument against Peter to deny that the city water supply saves a soul.

So, you cant have it both ways BlueM, as this is IGNORANT.

Understand?

So, that is theological Ignorance that  you should try to avoid if possible., BlueM

Also, your Latin Vulgate Bible is lying to you in 1st Peter when it tells you that the city water supply saves a soul......So, BlueMin, you should get a real bible that tells you that this verse is a FIGURE, that is to say, SYMBOLIC, and not LITERAL, when it describes water as symbolically cleansing you from sins, which of course HAS TO BE SYMBOLIC as ONLY the BLOOD OF JESUS can wash away sins and atone for them. = NEVER WATER !!

 

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Behold,

Jesus our Lord said "He who believes AND is baptized will be saved" (Mark 16:16)." :read:

Show me where in the written New Testament where it says that Baptism doesn't save you and is only symbolic. 

 

 

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Guest shiloh357
1 hour ago, BlueMinou said:

Behold,

Jesus our Lord said "He who believes AND is baptized will be saved" (Mark 16:16)." :read:

Show me where in the written New Testament where it says that Baptism doesn't save you and is only symbolic. 

 

 

If baptism were necessary for salvation, it would be mentioned in every place that the Bible mentions how we are saved.   People who are trusting baptism are not Christians.

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10 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

If baptism were necessary for salvation, it would be mentioned in every place that the Bible mentions how we are saved.   People who are trusting baptism are not Christians.

The "salvation" test, is a very simple one....... Just find out what someone is trusting to get them to heaven if they died right now.

If the answer is not "Jesus" or "Jesus blood" or "God".. or "being forgiven by what Jesus did on the Cross, or "the Cross".....or something that credits the CROSS and Jesus and His Blood with making them accepted by God, then you know you are dealing with ither a lost person or a heretic or both.

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16 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

If baptism were necessary for salvation, it would be mentioned in every place that the Bible mentions how we are saved.   People who are trusting baptism are not Christians.

By whose authority do you say this, your own? Your very own interpretation disagrees with what the Bible says as well as this ancient christian creed: 

"  we acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sin"- Nicene Creed. 

I have shown you examples in the Bible, and now I have shown you an ancient christian creed that supports this teaching. 

Edited by BlueMinou
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Guest shiloh357
1 minute ago, Behold said:

The "salvation" test, is a very simple one....... Just find out what someone is trusting to get them to heaven if they died right now.

If the answer is not "Jesus" or "Jesus blood" or "God".. or "being forgiven by what Jesus did on the Cross, or "the Cross".....or something that credits the CROSS and Jesus and His Blood with making them accepted by God, then you know you are dealing with ither a lost person or a heretic or both.

Catholics have no assurance of faith.  They don't know if they are going to heaven or not.  They don't know if they have said enough prayers, done enough penance, if they sinned too much, if they were good enough Catholics to make it heaven.  

In Catholicism, they're faith is not in Jesus because in their theology, Jesus isn't enough.   You have to go to purgatory to get done what Jesus, Almighty God, just could not do.   For them,  Jesus is not enough to save you.   You have to do your personal best, be as good as you can be, perform all of the sacraments and then suffer for a season in Purgatory.   The blood of Jesus is worthless to the RCC.   The death of Jesus on the cross is worthless to the RCC.   

It's why the RCC is really nothing more than the path to Hell.  There is no way a devout, cradle to grave Roman Catholic will ever hear the true Gospel.  All they get is the false gospel of the RCC.  It really is more of a cult than a true church.  In the RCC the locus of salvation is in the church, not really in Jesus.

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Guest shiloh357
Just now, BlueMinou said:

By whose authority do you say this, your own? Your very own interpretation disagrees with what the Bible says as well as this ancient christian creed: 

"  we acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sin"- Nicene Creed. 

I have shown you examples in the Bible, and now I have shown you an ancient christian creed that supports this teaching. 

My my authority comes from the Word of God.  I trample underfoot all creeds of the RCC.  I stand on the Bible, not some Christless cult like the RCC.  Mark 16:16 doesn't teach salvation is through baptism.  That is a false doctrine and a really sloppy interpretation of that verse.   And when we examine everything about salvation that is in the NT, we see that salvation is in Jesus alone.  Salvation is Jesus + 0

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12 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

My my authority comes from the Word of God.  I trample underfoot all creeds of the RCC.  I stand on the Bible, not some Christless cult like the RCC.  Mark 16:16 doesn't teach salvation is through baptism.  That is a false doctrine and a really sloppy interpretation of that verse.   And when we examine everything about salvation that is in the NT, we see that salvation is in Jesus alone.  Salvation is Jesus + 0

And the Word Of God says in  there are those who  "believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away" (Luke 8:13). So, essentially you are your own pope who determines what is biblical truth and what isn't, right. How does that work out with another denomination that claims you are in error. Anglicans, for example, adhere to the belief that infants can be baptized. 

 

Ah, but Catholics they do have an assurance of salvation, but not one that has infallible certitude. They also teach salvation by grace. You seem to have a lack of understanding about what catholics actually teach. If you still don't understand what the difference is, it just comes to show how very little you understand either their theology or what they actually teach. 

 

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