Once saved always saved?

[Behold]

18 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Catholics have no assurance of faith.  They don't know if they are going to heaven or not.  They don't know if they have said enough prayers, done enough penance, if they sinned too much, if they were good enough Catholics to make it heaven.  

In Catholicism, they're faith is not in Jesus because in their theology, Jesus isn't enough.   You have to go to purgatory to get done what Jesus, Almighty God, just could not do.   For them,  Jesus is not enough to save you.   You have to do your personal best, be as good as you can be, perform all of the sacraments and then suffer for a season in Purgatory.   The blood of Jesus is worthless to the RCC.   The death of Jesus on the cross is worthless to the RCC.   

It's why the RCC is really nothing more than the path to Hell.  There is no way a devout, cradle to grave Roman Catholic will ever hear the true Gospel.  All they get is the false gospel of the RCC.  It really is more of a cult than a true church.  In the RCC the locus of salvation is in the church, not really in Jesus.

Yes.

The "Catholic cult", denies justification by faith, and their "councils" and their true theology states that if you believe that "faith is counted as Righteousness without works", that if you believe and teach that  Faith alone is the ONLY means that God accepts to justifies a person, then you are anathema = cursed of God.

So, nothing is more Satanic then the Catholic Churches teaching that the "Gospel of the Grace of God" that Paul taught the church, is "cursed" and is not the plan of salvation.

Most Christians have no idea that the Catholic Cult denies "justification by faith", and most Catholics dont know it, and will argue till they are BLUE that this is not what their Church's Doctrine actually teaches, but it is indeed the Catholic Church's doctrine that claims that the way to God is NOT to be "justified by Faith, without the works of the Law".

Simplified.......The Catholic Cult teaches (doctrinally) that the actual way a person is born again, is in fact NOT the way they are born again, and that is why Catholics will always run to the water to try to become saved or worry about communion as the literal body of Christ (Transubstantiation) that they must EAT.

 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

2 minutes ago, BlueMinou said:

And the Word Of God says in  there are those who  "believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away" (Luke 8:13). Ah, but Catholics they do have an assurance of salvation, but not one that has infallible certitude. You seem to have a lack of understanding about what catholics actually teach. If you still don't understand what the difference is, it just comes to show how very little you understand either their theology or what they actually teach. 

 

Jesus was not talking about saving faith.  There are people who mentally assent to the teachings of Scripture and then return to their old ways.  But they were never saved.  Not all "belief"  is saving belief.    I understand the Catholics just fine.   You are not the first one we have had on the boards.

To bad you are more interested in spreading Catholicism than you are in spreading Jesus.   They don't teach the Bible.  They teach what their Magisterium  teaches about the Bible.

[Guest shiloh357]

5 minutes ago, Behold said:

Yes.

The "Catholic cult", denies justification by faith, and their "councils" and their true theology states that if you believe that "faith is counted as Righteousness without works", that if you believe and teach that  Faith alone is the ONLY means that God accepts to justifies a person, then you are anathema = cursed of God.

So, nothing is more Satanic then the Catholic Churches teaching that the "Gospel of the Grace of God" that Paul taught the church, is "cursed" and is not the plan of salvation.

Most Christians have no idea that the Catholic Cult denies "justification by faith", and most Catholics dont know it, and will argue till they are BLUE that this is not what their Church's Doctrine actually teaches, but it is indeed the Catholic Church's doctrine that claims that the way to God is NOT to be "justified by Faith, without the works of the Law".

Simplified.......The Catholic Cult teaches (doctrinally) that the actual way a person is born again, is in fact NOT the way they are born again, and that is why Catholics will always run to the water to try to become saved or worry about communion as the literal body of Christ (Transubstantiation) that they must EAT.

 

 

If you want to know what the RCC REALLY thinks about Bible-believing Christians, just read the Jesuit Oath especially the highlighted part:

I_______________ , now in the presence of Almighty God, the blessed Virgin Mary, the blessed St. John the Baptist, the Holy Apostles, St. Peter and St. Paul, and all the saints, sacred host of Heaven, and to you, my Ghostly Father, the superior general of the Society of Jesus, founded by St. Ignatius Loyola, in the pontification of Paul the Third, and continued to the present, do by the womb of the Virgin, the matrix of God, and the rod of Jesus Christ, declare and swear that His Holiness, the Pope, is Christ's Vice-Regent and is the true and only head of the Catholic or Universal Church throughout the earth; and that by the virtue of the keys of binding and loosing given to His Holiness by my Saviour, Jesus Christ, he hath power to depose heretical Kings, Princes, States, Commonwealths, and Governments, and they may be safely destroyed. Therefore to the utmost of my power I will defend this doctrine and His Holiness's right and custom against all usurpers of the heretical or Protestant authority whatever, especially the Lutheran Church of Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden and Norway, and the now pretended authority and Churches of England and Scotland, and the branches of same now established in Ireland and on the continent of America and elsewhere and all adherents in regard that they may be usurped and heretical, opposing the sacred Mother Church of Rome. I do now denounce and disown any allegiance as due to any heretical king, prince or State, named Protestant or Liberal, or obedience to any of their laws, magistrates or officers. I do further declare the doctrine of the Churches of England and Scotland of the Calvinists, Huguenots, and others of the name of Protestants or Masons to be damnable, and they themselves to be damned who will not forsake the same. I do further declare that I will help, assist, and advise all or any of His Holiness's agents, in any place where I should be, in Switzerland, Germany, Holland, Ireland or America, or in any other kingdom or territory I shall come to, and do my utmost to extirpate the heretical Protestant or Masonic doctrines and to destroy all their pretended powers, legal or otherwise. I do further promise and declare that, notwithstanding, I am dispensed with to assume any religion heretical for the propagation of the Mother Church's interest; to keep secret and private all her agents' counsels from time to time, as they entrust me, and not to divulge, directly or indirectly, by word, writing or circumstances whatever; but to execute all that should be proposed, given in charge, or discovered unto me by you, my Ghostly Father, or any of this sacred order. I do further promise and declare that I will have no opinion or will of my own or any mental reservation whatever, even as a corpse or cadaver (perinde ac cadaver), but will unhesitatingly obey each and every command that I may receive from my superiors in the militia of the Pope and of Jesus Christ.

That I will go to any part of the world whithersoever I may be sent, to the frozen regions north, jungles of India, to the centres of civilisation of Europe, or to the wild haunts of the barbarous savages of America without murmuring or repining, and will be submissive in all things, whatsoever is communicated to me. I do further promise and declare that I will, when opportunity presents, make and wage relentless war, secretly and openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Masons, as I am directed to do, to extirpate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex nor condition, and that will hang, burn, waste, boil, flay, strangle, and bury alive these infamous heretics; rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women, and crush their infants' heads against the walls in order to annihilate their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly I will secretly use the poisonous cup, the strangulation cord, the steel of the poniard, or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honour, rank, dignity or authority of the persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agents of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Father of the Society of Jesus.

In confirmation of which I hereby dedicate my life, soul, and all corporal powers, and with the dagger which I now receive I will subscribe my name written in my blood in testimony thereof; and should I prove false, or weaken in my determination, may my brethren and fellow soldiers of the militia of the Pope cut off my hands and feet and my throat from ear to ear, my belly be opened and sulphur burned therein with all the punishment that can be inflicted upon me on earth, and my soul shall be tortured by demons in eternal hell forever. That I will in voting always vote for a Knight of Columbus in preference to a Protestant, especially a Mason, and that I will leave my party so to do; that if two Catholics are on the ticket I will satisfy myself which is the better supporter of Mother Church and vote accordingly. That I will not deal with or employ a Protestant if in my power to deal with or employ a Catholic. That I will place Catholic girls in Protestant families that a weekly report may be made of the inner movements of the heretics. That I will provide myself with arms and ammunition that I may be in readiness when the word is passed, or I am commanded to defend the Church either as an individual or with the militia of the Pope. All of which I,_______________, do swear by the blessed Trinity and blessed sacrament which I am now to receive to perform and on part to keep this my oath. In testimony hereof, I take this most holy and blessed sacrament of the Eucharist and witness the same further with my name written with the point of this dagger dipped in my own blood and seal in the face of this holy sacrament.

http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?ArtKey=jesuit

 

[BlueMinou]

9 minutes ago, Behold said:

The "Catholic cult", denies justification by faith, and their "councils" and their true theology states that if you believe that "faith is counted as Righteousness without works",

 

 

Catholics affirm what the Bible literally says, that we are saved by faith. Once again, you seem to lack understanding what they teach. 

[BlueMinou]

10 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

If you want to know what the RCC REALLY thinks about Bible-believing Christians, just read the Jesuit Oath especially the highlighted part:

I_______________ , now in the presence of Almighty God, the blessed Virgin Mary, the blessed St. John the Baptist, the Holy Apostles, St. Peter and St. Paul, and all the saints, sacred host of Heaven, and to you, my Ghostly Father, the superior general of the Society of Jesus, founded by St. Ignatius Loyola, in the pontification of Paul the Third, and continued to the present, do by the womb of the Virgin, the matrix of God, and the rod of Jesus Christ, declare and swear that His Holiness, the Pope, is Christ's Vice-Regent and is the true and only head of the Catholic or Universal Church throughout the earth; and that by the virtue of the keys of binding and loosing given to His Holiness by my Saviour, Jesus Christ, he hath power to depose heretical Kings, Princes, States, Commonwealths, and Governments, and they may be safely destroyed. Therefore to the utmost of my power I will defend this doctrine and His Holiness's right and custom against all usurpers of the heretical or Protestant authority whatever, especially the Lutheran Church of Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden and Norway, and the now pretended authority and Churches of England and Scotland, and the branches of same now established in Ireland and on the continent of America and elsewhere and all adherents in regard that they may be usurped and heretical, opposing the sacred Mother Church of Rome. I do now denounce and disown any allegiance as due to any heretical king, prince or State, named Protestant or Liberal, or obedience to any of their laws, magistrates or officers. I do further declare the doctrine of the Churches of England and Scotland of the Calvinists, Huguenots, and others of the name of Protestants or Masons to be damnable, and they themselves to be damned who will not forsake the same. I do further declare that I will help, assist, and advise all or any of His Holiness's agents, in any place where I should be, in Switzerland, Germany, Holland, Ireland or America, or in any other kingdom or territory I shall come to, and do my utmost to extirpate the heretical Protestant or Masonic doctrines and to destroy all their pretended powers, legal or otherwise. I do further promise and declare that, notwithstanding, I am dispensed with to assume any religion heretical for the propagation of the Mother Church's interest; to keep secret and private all her agents' counsels from time to time, as they entrust me, and not to divulge, directly or indirectly, by word, writing or circumstances whatever; but to execute all that should be proposed, given in charge, or discovered unto me by you, my Ghostly Father, or any of this sacred order. I do further promise and declare that I will have no opinion or will of my own or any mental reservation whatever, even as a corpse or cadaver (perinde ac cadaver), but will unhesitatingly obey each and every command that I may receive from my superiors in the militia of the Pope and of Jesus Christ.

That I will go to any part of the world whithersoever I may be sent, to the frozen regions north, jungles of India, to the centres of civilisation of Europe, or to the wild haunts of the barbarous savages of America without murmuring or repining, and will be submissive in all things, whatsoever is communicated to me. I do further promise and declare that I will, when opportunity presents, make and wage relentless war, secretly and openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Masons, as I am directed to do, to extirpate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex nor condition, and that will hang, burn, waste, boil, flay, strangle, and bury alive these infamous heretics; rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women, and crush their infants' heads against the walls in order to annihilate their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly I will secretly use the poisonous cup, the strangulation cord, the steel of the poniard, or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honour, rank, dignity or authority of the persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agents of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Father of the Society of Jesus.

In confirmation of which I hereby dedicate my life, soul, and all corporal powers, and with the dagger which I now receive I will subscribe my name written in my blood in testimony thereof; and should I prove false, or weaken in my determination, may my brethren and fellow soldiers of the militia of the Pope cut off my hands and feet and my throat from ear to ear, my belly be opened and sulphur burned therein with all the punishment that can be inflicted upon me on earth, and my soul shall be tortured by demons in eternal hell forever. That I will in voting always vote for a Knight of Columbus in preference to a Protestant, especially a Mason, and that I will leave my party so to do; that if two Catholics are on the ticket I will satisfy myself which is the better supporter of Mother Church and vote accordingly. That I will not deal with or employ a Protestant if in my power to deal with or employ a Catholic. That I will place Catholic girls in Protestant families that a weekly report may be made of the inner movements of the heretics. That I will provide myself with arms and ammunition that I may be in readiness when the word is passed, or I am commanded to defend the Church either as an individual or with the militia of the Pope. All of which I,_______________, do swear by the blessed Trinity and blessed sacrament which I am now to receive to perform and on part to keep this my oath. In testimony hereof, I take this most holy and blessed sacrament of the Eucharist and witness the same further with my name written with the point of this dagger dipped in my own blood and seal in the face of this holy sacrament.

http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?ArtKey=jesuit

 

Was that written before Vatican II? Catholic Church teaches that Protestants are separated bretheren and that the ills of the Protestant Reformation are not a fault of their own I think. And did the Magisterim of the Church infallibly define that statement as a statement of faith, or was it just something the Jesuits created themselves as a statement of oath for their own beliefs? 

Now let's get back on topic, OSAS is a fallacy. And I demonstrated Bible verses that show it is as even historical christian documents attest that Baptism plays a role in the salvation of the christian and the forgiveness of their sins. Not once did I ever say that the blood of Jesus plays no role in the salvation of the christian. The blood of Jesus and Baptism are both related to the death of Jesus and both play a role in the salvation of a christian. 

 

Edited August 16, 2016 by BlueMinou

[Guest shiloh357]

28 minutes ago, BlueMinou said:

Was that written before Vatican II? Catholic Church teaches that Protestants are separated bretheren and that the ills of the Protestant Reformation are not a fault of their own I think. And did the Magisterim of the Church infallibly define that statement as a statement of faith, or was it just something the Jesuits created themselves as a statement of oath for their own beliefs? 

Now let's get back on topic, OSAS is a fallacy. And I demonstrated Bible verses that show it is as even historical christian documents attest that Baptism plays a role in the salvation of the christian and the forgiveness of their sins. Not once did I ever say that the blood of Jesus plays no role in the salvation of the christian. The blood of Jesus and Baptism are both related to the death of Jesus and both play a role in the salvation of a christian. 

 

It's either the blood of Jesus or baptism.   You can be a Christian or you can be a Catholic. But no one can be both.   It's up to you.

[Behold]

39 minutes ago, BlueMinou said:

Catholics affirm what the Bible literally says, that we are saved by faith. Once again, you seem to lack understanding what they teach. 

BM, you've already blown your cover.

You've already exposed yourself with your water theology.

Want me to cut and paste it?........Or is there a need for that at this point?

Dont you recall that you just posted that water saves us?

Want to deny it now?, or SPIN IT?

So, really, isn't it time for some honesty, or is that not something you are familiar with???

[BlueMinou]

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

It's either the blood of Jesus or baptism.   You can be a Christian or you can be a Catholic. But no one can be both.   It's up to you.

You can be catholic and christian. Catholic means "universal" and also includes the Eastern Orthodox Church as well, among others too that I haven't listed. So, you can be both. 

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

It's either the blood of Jesus or baptism.   You can be a Christian or you can be a Catholic. But no one can be both.   It's up to you.

You can be both catholic and christian. It is both the blood of Jesus as well as baptism in the name of Jesus, not only blood only. 

[BlueMinou]

1 hour ago, Behold said:

BM, you've already blown your cover.

You've already exposed yourself with your water theology.

Want me to cut and paste it?........Or is there a need for that at this point?

Dont you recall that you just posted that water saves us?

Want to deny it now?, or SPIN IT?

So, really, isn't it time for some honesty, or is that not something you are familiar with???

LOL, you talk as if Baptismal Regeneration is a heresy; It isn't. It's even included in the Nicene Faith. "One baptism for the forgiveness of sins." Are you telling me that the Nicene Creed is unchristian and in error? I'm not going to judge you, but I do question your beliefs if you're going to call the Nicene Creed into error. We should really start a new thread about why you think the Nicene Creed is in error if you want to go that route. 

This discussion is increasingly turning hostile, which is not my intention. 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

21 minutes ago, BlueMinou said:

You can be catholic and christian. Catholic means "universal" and also includes the Eastern Orthodox Church as well, among others too that I haven't listed. So, you can be both. 

You can be both catholic and christian. It is both the blood of Jesus as well as baptism in the name of Jesus, not only blood only. 

You can be a Roman Catholic or a Christian you cannot be both.  Roman Catholicism is outside true, biblical Christianity.  It has no part in Christ. It is a tool of Satan and has led many, many people to Hell. It is anathema. 

The blood of Jesus is what perfects us, per Heb. 10.   It is the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross that purifies us and makes us holy.  Baptism cannot do what the blood of Jesus has already done.