Once saved always saved?

[HAZARD]

3 minutes ago, woundeddog said:

Dear Hazard.

many people have tried to show you by scripture and explanation why eternal security is such an important doctrine.

I cant read your heart and don't know why you have trouble seeing and believing it-

further discussion is pointless-- I am awarding this conversation the DEAD HORSE AWARD

There is no such thing as eternal security while ever free moral agents are capable of sin as the many Scriptures I have given prove, and those saved people who have returned to sin without repenting are lost. Your not addressing what I wrote about Ananias and Sapphira, you just gloss over the Scriptures given and hang on to what you believe regardless of what God says.

If you think this is pointless then stop replying to my posts unless you can give me one Scripture which clearly states, "the soul that sins and is saved by the death and resurrection of Jesus and believes in the fact that the Father raised Jesus, regardless of returning to sin, they will be given permission to enter the kingdom of God." Or, "The soul that sins, regardless of salvation, that returns to sin is saved anyway?"

[HAZARD]

Amaziah, a king of Judah who turned to God and did that which was right for a while. He thus regained grace and favour with God who blessed him (2 Chron 25:1-12). After that he found new gods in Edom and fell from grace by worshiping them (2 Chron. 25:14-16).

For this apostacy God cursed him and he died out of grace ( 2Chron 25:20-28).

[George]

Out of curiosity, what about this passage?

1Co 5:1  It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. 
1Co 5:2  And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you. 
1Co 5:3  For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. 
1Co 5:4  When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 
1Co 5:5  you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.
 

[woundeddog]

1 hour ago, HAZARD said:

 give me one Scripture which clearly states, "the soul that sins and is saved by the death and resurrection of Jesus and believes in the fact that the Father raised Jesus, regardless of returning to sin, they will be given permission to enter the kingdom of God." Or, "The soul that sins, regardless of salvation, that returns to sin is saved anyway?"

okay-- this is my last try for sure

 

Romans 10:13  Whosoever calls on the name of the Lord SHALL be saved

 

That covers all your conditions-- because it does not include any of them-- The Lord clearly says that if you call on his name you SHALL be saved -- not maybe, or only if you don't fall back in sin-- or even if you loose faith-- it says SHALL BE SAVED-- no doubt about it- Iron Clad and bullet proof

 

"Lord Jesus save me I am a sinner"-- is the passport to eternal security--- its simple- we are to come to him as little children-- you are making salvation to hard-- by your standard no one will stay saved

[kwikphilly]

Fantastic Scripture reference from George......& the point I would love to get across for the OSAS .subscribers is that it is not such a cut & dry issue,there is not OSAS or NOT OSAS,it is kind of a "both right" and here is why......

      The spirit of the BEliever has Received a GUARANTEED Seal of Redemption......that "guarantee" means that even though the flesh may yield to temptation from time to time,man can *& weill trip up,stumble ,fall & make MISTAKES........this is of NO Consequence to the spirit,which shall be Redeemed(yes SAVED)

      The person that continues in sin is "handed over to satan" so that they wiil learn the hard way & most certainly suffer the reprocussions & ramifications that are the consequences of sin.......by the Brethren having nothing more to do with that Brother they will hopefully & prayefully learn their lesson & make a wiilful decision to STOP SINNING & return to the Fold(no harm /no foul)  you see,we can make MISTAKES & we cannot lose our Salvation

      Now,this is what I believe most folks fail to understand & realize why this can be a dangerous mindset.......By contnually yielding to the flesh(temptation)the heart can harden if the Believer ignores Holy Spirit  & willfully & deliberately keeps choosing to disobey,......think about any Relationship that you do not nurture,water ,invest anything in......can you fall out of love & eventually be attracted(carnally) to another that seems more appealing? Of course,continuing on the path of willful disobedience can lead to adultery & the Believer can choose to serve satan......Free Will is always there,the choice is always ours to make & life is full of choices,,,one can CHOOSE to give up their Salvation,,,,,therefore I do not believe OSAS                                                                                       With love-in Christ,Kwik

[TehMill]

11 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Jesus never went after Judas nor did not give up until He found him and brought him home on His shoulders. Whilst Jesus was being murdered Judas committed suicide and lost his place and his Bishopric was given to another.

Acts 1: 23-26.   V. 23, And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
V. 24, And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
V. 25, That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
V. 26, And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Judas was never saved....Jesus always knew him for a devil

[TehMill]

11 hours ago, HAZARD said:

1 John 2:24, Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

V. 25, And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

It is definitely stated in 1 John 2:24, 25 that it is entirely left up to us to let eternal life abide in us and that it does as long as we continue in the Son and in the Father. The person that was from the beginning referred to in these verses is Christ who is our eternal life (John 1:1, 2 John 17:2, 3). It would be foolish to ask men to "Let that abide in" them if it was impossible to do otherwise.

"Now the just shall live by faith; but any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul" (Hebrews 10:38, 39). If any man could not draw back and go to perdition this is a waste of words like many hundreds of other passages that state a man dies when he sins.

If we hold fast "TO THE END" we are of God's house (Heb. 3:6) ; we become partakers of Christ eternally (Heb. 3:11) ; we enter eternal rest (Heb. 6:19; 4:1-11);we will not fall as did others (Heb. 4:11) ; we shall inherit the promises (Heb. 6:11, 12; 10:23, 35, 36) ; and be saved eternally (Heb. 10:28,39; 12:14, 15; 1 Pet. 1:5, 9, 13; 2 Pet. 1:3-10; 3:17, 18; Jude 20-24) ; BUT, if we do  not hold fast to the end we shall be lost. These passages are lies if there are no conditions to meet to be saved. Therefore "HOLD FAST."

Jude speaks of some who were "TWICE DEAD" (Jude 12). Men are born dead in sins, so to die a second time would have to be after the new birth. This proves men can die more than once and therefore they can be made alive more than once.

"I have somewhat against thee, because THOU HAST LEFT THY FIRST LOVE. Remember therefore FROM WHENCE THOU ART FALLEN, AND REPENT, and do thy works ; or else I will come unto thee quickly AND WILL REMOVE THEY CANDLESTICH OUT OF HIS PLACE EXCEPT THOU REPENT. (Rev. 2:4-5.

He that overcometh . . .  I will not blot out his name out of the book of life (Rev. 3:5; 22: 18-19; Ex. 32:32-33; Psa. 69:28). If one does not overcome we can expect then, that his name will be blotted out of the book of life.

These many Scriptures above plainly say that saved men when they sin will die and be lost. Are we going to believe these and many other Scriptural facts or believe the false theory of unconditional security so we can still live in sin? If these passages do not refer to the saved then they do not mean what they say, for sinners could not be called "Brethren," be "In the Lord," "In Christ," "Be just," and be the ones Christian letters were written to. Sinners could not "wax wanton against Christ," or "cats off their first faith." They could not again go after Satan unless they had first turned to God (Acts 26:18).

But you have not abided in Him, you now rely upon Him+ your own works

But you HAVE drawn back, your position when you were saved was that you were saved solely by Christ's work at the cross

But you have not held fast, you have shifted ground away from believing in only the cross

None of these scriptures say that salvation is lost, that is YOUR interpretation, they do speak about loss of comfort, blessing, fellowship with the Lord and power....how many sad Christians there are who have lost there first joy, have left their first love.....they are still saved. These scriptures are and exhortation and encouragement to them to return to their firstlove.

No those scripture do NOT say they will be lost...YOU say that.

 

The reason these scriptures stand out to you when you read the bible is because they are warning you.

 

Eternal means eternal, everlasting means everlasting, saved means saved.

 

 

[PatrolMan]

12 hours ago, HAZARD said:

DONT ACCUSE ME OF BLASPHEMING THE HOLY GHOST. WHO SAID ALL ANGELS ARE LOST? Where did you get that stuff? I said "ONE THIRD" of God's angels rebelled with Satan.

Here is what I wrote, the first line of my post;

 

 

ONE THIRD IS NOT ALL IN MY BOOK OR THE BIBLE! Do read any of what is written or just jump to conclusions? You need to apologise for that statement.

Satan, who was once the most perfect angelic creation, and arc angel, (1 Chron. 21:1; Job 1:6-12; 2:1-7; Ezek. 28:11-17; Matt. 4:1-11; Pet. 5:8-9; Rev. 12:7-12; 20:1-10; Eph. 2:1-3; 2 Cor. 4;4; John 12:31).

FALLEN ANGELS, (Matt. 25:41; Eph. 1;21; 3:10; 6:10-17; Rev. 12:7-12).

DEMONS, (Matt. 4:23-24; 10:1-7; 12:22-32; mark 5; 1 Tim. 4:1; 1 John 4:1-6).

 

The confusion is in what you write. First you talk about one third of the angels, then next you say one third is not in your book or the bible. I did not accuse you of anything, I simply was making the point that one can loose his or hers salvation. Edit your next line. Do I read or do I not. Are you asking me or telling me?  Have a nice day. We all get mixed up on the key board at times.

[HAZARD]

14 hours ago, George said:

Out of curiosity, what about this passage?

1Co 5:1  It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. 
1Co 5:2  And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you. 
1Co 5:3  For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. 
1Co 5:4  When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 
1Co 5:5  you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.
 

Hi George. Thank you for your input.

(1 Cor. 5:5, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.) NKJ

The purpose of delivering him to Satan wast to destroy the flesh. This required members to withdraw all fellowship and spiritual influence from him, and to quit praying for him, so as to permit Satan to afflict his body thus perhaps bringing him to repentance, that his spirit might be saved in the end. This was effective for in the second letter Paul wrote the church to forgive him lest he should be swallowed up over much sorrow (2 Cor. 2:6-7).

(his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.)

All physical affliction that could be brought on a man could not save his spirit unless it brought him to repentance. It was therefore, physical trouble which saved the soul, but repentance brought about by affliction.

 

[HAZARD]

14 hours ago, woundeddog said:

okay-- this is my last try for sure

 

Romans 10:13  Whosoever calls on the name of the Lord SHALL be saved

 

That covers all your conditions-- because it does not include any of them-- The Lord clearly says that if you call on his name you SHALL be saved -- not maybe, or only if you don't fall back in sin-- or even if you loose faith-- it says SHALL BE SAVED-- no doubt about it- Iron Clad and bullet proof

 

"Lord Jesus save me I am a sinner"-- is the passport to eternal security--- its simple- we are to come to him as little children-- you are making salvation to hard-- by your standard no one will stay saved

Sure, Whosoever calls on the name of the Lord SHALL be saved, and common sense tells us that is so, as long as we remain in Jesus, and you and I know many do not remain in Jesus and until they repent they are cut off, so it helps to take in the whole picture. Continue to read this chapter and note verse 16;

Romans 10: 16, But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report. This prophecy is only partially fulfilled in N.T. ministers. They cannot now say of Zion, "Thy God reigneth." In the Millennium they will say this, so the passage will then be fulfilled. The 9th O.T prophecy fulfilled in Roans 10;16; Isa. 53:19. Paul here answers a question in the Jewish mind this: "But they have not all obeyed the gospel,"that is, if the gospel was of God it should have divine success, and so since many do not believe it, then it must not be of God. Paul proves by prophecy that many would not believe and obey the gospel (Isa. 53:1). God sends the message, but He does not obligate men to accept and obey it (Mark 16"16; John 3:16-20; Roman 1:16).