Once saved always saved?

[whatdoIwant2callmyself]

3 minutes ago, hmbld said:

I read that the pope says to do good, as that will lead you to heaven.  Yet, the pope, in telling atheists to do good, and not pointing that there is only One who is good, one path, one way to heaven, is he not misleading?  Generally when someone describes themselves as atheists, no longer have the "through no fault of their own", as they have given thought and consideration and thereby rejected Jesus by proclaiming they are atheists.  Now you last sentence disagrees with what I read of the popes words.  Your sentence says if they seek with a sincere heart, while the pope goes on about the doing good nonsense.  Doing good will get you to hell every time.  

Yes, it will. But again, it is a reiteration that works saves isn't it? When the head of the Latin rite church claims atheists that do good, but remain atheist mind you, can go to Heaven? That's not the gospel.

Catholic Online: Pope Francis says atheists can do good and go to heaven too!

[RealPresence]

11 minutes ago, hmbld said:

I read that the pope says to do good, as that will lead you to heaven.  Yet, the pope, in telling atheists to do good, and not pointing that there is only One who is good, one path, one way to heaven, is he not misleading?  Generally when someone describes themselves as atheists, no longer have the "through no fault of their own", as they have given thought and consideration and thereby rejected Jesus by proclaiming they are atheists.  Now you last sentence disagrees with what I read of the popes words.  Your sentence says if they seek with a sincere heart, while the pope goes on about the doing good nonsense.  Doing good will get you to hell every time.  

And I see you completely ignored my previous post regarding Invincible Ignorance.
That's why you're in the confused mess that you are.

Listen - no matter what your friends tell you - ignorance is NOT bliss . . .

[hmbld]

1 minute ago, RealPresence said:

And I see you completely ignored my previous post regarding Invincible Ignorance.
That's why you're in the confused mess that you are.

Listen - no matter what your friends tell you - ignorance is NOT bliss . . .

I'm sorry you feel I ignored it. 

God bless you

[RealPresence]

Just now, hmbld said:

I'm sorry you feel I ignored it. 

God bless you

And I'm sorry that you ignored it . . .

[woundeddog]

Proverbs 26:12King James Version (KJV)

¹² Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.

[whatdoIwant2callmyself]

I think we should recall into this thread the Catholic dogma known as , Papal Infallibility. Particularly concerning when Francis made the statement about atheists being saved due to their good works.

Firstly, let's recall a former pope who made this statement: "There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which no one at all can be saved." Pope Innocent III (circa 1160 - 1216 CE)

Francis' remarks concerning atheists violated that statement. And yet, Papal Infallibility made it something of little concern to him apparently.

What is Papal Infallibility? This is as pertains to the determination of the Vatican Council II:

"The infallibility, however, with which the divine redeemer wished to endow his Church in defining doctrine pertaining to faith and morals, is co-extensive with the deposit of revelation, which must be religiously guarded and loyally and courageously expounded. The Roman Pontiff, head of the college of bishops, enjoys this infallibility in virtue of his office, when, as supreme pastor and teacher of all the faithful -- who confirms his brethren in the faith (cf. Luke 22:32) -- he proclaims in an absolute decision a doctrine pertaining to faith and morals" (Volume 1, p.380).

"We believe in the infallibility enjoyed by the Successor of Peter when he speaks ex cathedra as shepherd and teacher of all the faithful, an infallibility which the whole Episcopate also enjoys when it exercises with him the supreme magisterium" (Volume 2, p.392).

"This loyal submission of the will and intellect must be given, in a special way, to the authentic teaching authority of the Roman Pontiff, even when he does not speak ex cathedra in such wise, indeed, that his supreme teaching authority be acknowledged with respect, and that one sincerely adhere to decisions made by him conformably with his manifest mind and intention ..." (Volume 1, p.379).

 

 

Furthermore, if you are a Catholic but you reject the dogma that is Papal Infallibility, according to the Council of Trent, you are anathema. You are not a true Catholic.

The Tidentine profession of faith

"... I unhesitatingly accept and profess all the doctrines  (especially those concerning the primacy of the Roman Pontiff and his infallible teaching authority)handed  down, defined, and explained by the sacred canons and ecumenical councils and especially those of this most holy Council of Trent (and by the ecumenical Vatican Council). And at the same time I condemn, reject, and anathematize everything that is  contrary to those propositions, and all heresies without exception that have been condemned, rejected, and anathematized by the Church. I,  promise, vow, and swear that, with God's help, I shall most constantly hold and profess this true Catholic faith, outside which no one can be saved
and which I now freely profess and truly hold. With the help of God, I shall profess it whole and unblemished to my dying breath; and, to the best of my ability, I shall see to it that my subjects or those entrusted to me by virtue of my office hold it, teach it, and preach it. So help me God and his holy Gospel"  . [The words in parentheses in this paragraph were inserted into the Tridentine profession of faith by order of Pope Pius IX in a decree issued by the Holy Office, January 20, 1877   (Acta Sanctae Sedis, X[1877], pp. 71 ff.).

 

 

Remember also, Francis is the first Jesuit elected to the office of Pope. When Papal Infallibility applies, what he stated about atheists is irrefutable.  *Edit to add: Unless, per the decree of the Council of Trent, you do dispute what Francis stated about atheists. And then by the Council's decree you are not then able to call yourself a Catholic.

 

 

Edited December 16, 2016 by whatdoIwant2callmyself

[whatdoIwant2callmyself]

Please, if allowed by the rules here, let us see Francis speak in his own words under his own Infallible Papal authority:

TRANSCRIPT:

Published on May 25, 2014

Homily by Pope Francis on May 22 2013, where he states the position that all are saved who do good deeds, including non-Christians (even atheists). Full text:


(Vatican Radio - Pope at Mass: Culture of encounter is the foundation of peace) :

"Doing good" is a principle that unites all humanity, beyond the diversity of ideologies and religions, and creates the "culture of encounter" that is the foundation of peace: this is what Pope said at Mass this morning at the Domus Santae Martae, in the presence of employees of the Governorate of Vatican City. Cardinal Bechara Boutros Rai, Patriarch of Antioch of the Maronites, concelebrated at the Mass.

Wednesday's Gospel speaks to us about the disciples who prevented a person from outside their group from doing good. "They complain," the Pope said in his homily, because they say, "If he is not one of us, he cannot do good. If he is not of our party, he cannot do good." And Jesus corrects them: "Do not hinder him, he says, let him do good." The disciples, Pope Francis explains, "were a little intolerant," closed off by the idea of possessing the truth, convinced that "those who do not have the truth, cannot do good." "This was wrong . . . Jesus broadens the horizon." Pope Francis said, "The root of this possibility of doing good -- that we all have -- is in creation":

"The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart: do good and do not do evil. All of us. 'But, Father, this is not Catholic! He cannot do good.' Yes, he can. He must. Not can: must! Because he has this commandment within him. Instead, this 'closing off' that imagines that those outside, everyone, cannot do good is a wall that leads to war and also to what some people throughout history have conceived of: killing in the name of God. That we can kill in the name of God. And that, simply, is blasphemy. To say that you can kill in the name of God is blasphemy."

"Instead," the Pope continued, "the Lord has created us in His image and likeness, and has given us this commandment in the depths of our heart: do good and do not do evil":

"The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! 'Father, the atheists?' Even the atheists. Everyone! And this Blood makes us children of God of the first class! We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all! And we all have a duty to do good. And this commandment for everyone to do good, I think, is a beautiful path towards peace. If we, each doing our own part, if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of encounter: we need that so much. We must meet one another doing good. 'But I don't believe, Father, I am an atheist!' But do good: we will meet one another there."

"Doing good" the Pope explained, is not a matter of faith: "It is a duty, it is an identity card that our Father has given to all of us, because He has made us in His image and likeness. And He does good, always."

This was the final prayer of Pope Francis:

"Today is [the feast of] Santa Rita, Patron Saint of impossible things -- but this seems impossible: let us ask of her this grace, this grace that all, all, all people would do good and that we would encounter one another in this work, which is a work of creation, like the creation of the Father. A work of the family, because we are all children of God, all of us, all of us! And God loves us, all of us! May Santa Rita grant us this grace, which seems almost impossible. Amen."

[hmbld]

4 minutes ago, whatdoIwant2callmyself said:

I think we should recall into this thread the Catholic dogma known as , Papal Infallibility. Particularly concerning when Francis made the statement about atheists being saved due to their good works.

 

Remember also, Francis is the first Jesuit elected to the office of Pope. When Papal Infallibility applies, what he stated about atheists is irrefutable.

 

 

From my limited understanding, the pope is free to speak his opinion and not be held to the infallible thing.  The infallible thing is limited to some type of specific documents or writings that they produce, so not everything, in fact, very little is regarded as infallible from the pope.  

[whatdoIwant2callmyself]

3 minutes ago, hmbld said:

From my limited understanding, the pope is free to speak his opinion and not be held to the infallible thing.  The infallible thing is limited to some type of specific documents or writings that they produce, so not everything, in fact, very little is regarded as infallible from the pope.  

True. And yet, when speaking ex Cathedra, from the seat of authority, of his office as Pope, what he states does fall within the confines of Papal Infallibility.

EX CATHEDRA,

1. in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians,
2. in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority,
3. he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole church,

[simplejeff]

4 hours ago, whatdoIwant2callmyself said:

I don't think it funny at all. The disciples of the antithetical institution raised against Christ and his truth has led countless souls straight to Hell. And that it has disciples arguing to achieve that end now and in future is a travesty. 
The Bible is clear about those that hate in the name of their faith. Are we not to pity that one that hates the Protestants here ? They teach the way to Hell, argue against God's  only begotten son, make the primacy of their fallen doctrine cause , and demonstrate arrogance and hubris as one of the damned.

No, there isn't anything funny about that. Idolatrous satanic churches are a sin. And anathema.

You see, if you believe you are not eternally saved, you'll then always depend on that institution that teaches you that your allegiance to their way of salvation will save you. In the end. After you've confessed for no purpose, after you've repented in countless acts of contrition that serve no purpose. After you've gasped for a priest to give you last rites and using nearly your last breath. And after your heart stops having lived all those lies as truth, that you had to work, work, work, work, to find God's grace in salvation while alive. And only after you're dead discover if your labors were to come to fruition, you're still damned! Because you awaken in purgatory. Where you'll spend an indeterminate period of time burning off those venial (forgivable) sins that weren't forgiven by the church when you were alive.

Purgatory is not in the Bible.It is a word in the false teachings of anti-Christ adversarial dogma that culminates a message into one word; Purgatory. The message being, Jesus died a failure on the cross.

He did not take the sins of the world upon himself there. That the scripture is a lie when it says, whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. (In fact, one here continually argues that when they deny Jesus teachings concerning eternal salvation, eternal life.)

That God lied when he said those who repent of their sins and hold faith in Jesus and the grace of God shall be redeemed, reborn as a new creation, and God shall remember their sins no more.  Because when someone believes they have to suffer for the sins they carried with them after death and for an indeterminate time in a place not Hell, that's exactly what they're holding faith in. All that Jesus didn't teach is all that they hold in faith is true.

Indulgences, are not in scripture. And yet, with the advent of purgatory the church that invented that false place made a fortune off of naive people who paid to have the souls of their departed loved one's removed from that place of afterlife suffering.

And how did such an evil place come to be? When it is not in scripture? Why, by yet another council's decree of course.  A decree authored by the Council of Florence, and their "Decree of Union".  And in a decree drawn up by the Council of Trent.

 

 

 

John 3:3-8 Jesus replied, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter his mother’s womb and be born a second time, can he?” 5 Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must all be born from above.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it will, and you hear the sound it makes, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

 

John 3:16-18 For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18 The one who believes in him is not condemned. The one who does not believe has been condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

It is in Scripture, and why it is, and perhaps even why YHWH allowed such evil to exist.

For a while, ALL of the Reformers preached very accurately from SCRIPTURE about this.

Today?  The whole world is deceived.