Pre-tribbers, what do you have

[Salty]

1 hour ago, Blueyedjewel said:

Does Paul show a difference in scripture between the church and Isreal?

Your last two sentences are indeed true. I am implored to say them back to you!

 

Depends on where in Paul's Epistles you refer to.

Paul taught the believers of the seed of Israel and the believing Gentiles are 'one' in Christ Jesus, one body.

Paul also showed how the unbelievers of the seed of Israel are only graffed back into their own olive tree when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, which will only be on the day of Jesus' 2nd coming.

So as of right now, it is Christ's Church that is holder of most all of God's Promises to Israel (Ephesians 2, Paul's "commonwealth of Israel" idea). The unbelieving Jews only have certain Promises still in effect today. (They lost the throne of David in Jerusalem, they do not have the greatest military nor do they rule the gates of their enemies in the world, they don't have the major blessings of good lands living peacefully without walls, the majority of the seed is still not returned, etc.)

[Revelation Man]

20 minutes ago, Salty said:

I well understand about unbelieving Israel being saved when Jesus comes, which is when the fullness of the Gentiles will be. But that has NOTHING to do with trying to prove the Pre-trib Rapture theory from John Darby is a doctrine in The Bible, as no such idea can be found.

 

You do not understand because Elijah will turn Israel back unto God before the Day of the Lord comes, or Gods wrath which starts at the opening of the Seals and lasts through the Seventh Vial, if your understanding was true, then Israel would not be saved until Jesus came back. That is just not what the bible teaches. Again, no matter how many time you say or repeat this bogus claim, it is not going to become "TRUTH", The Rapture is spoken about by Paul, he clearly speaks of the Harpazo, snatching away, which is what Rapio in the Latin Vulgate means and is what Catching Away in the KJV means, Raptured away. You can repeat it all you want, but Harpazo, Rapio and Rapture all means to be snatched away or caught up.  You keep repeating that though, even though it will not come true. 

 

27 minutes ago, Salty said:

About unbelieving Israel on that day of Christ, Zechariah 12 gives us more info, as did Jesus in Luke 23 about them. They will appear in shame and wish for the mountains and hills to fall upon them, because at that moment it will be revealed to them how they rejected their Savior and worked against Him during this world. I'd say that's mostly for the most hardliner Jewish activists against Christ today.

 

Zechariah 12 is before the Day of Christ, because it is before the Abomination of Desolation, Elijah brings them back unto God before the Day of the Lord (Malachi 4:5-6). The Hills falling on "THEM" has nothing to do with Israel, that is Babylon or men of the world who Gods wrath is coming against, Israel will be in the Wilderness being protected by God for 1260 Days, and nurtured/fed by God also. They will not be catching Gods wrath if He is protecting them, AFTER THE MID-POINT which is after the Abomination of Desolation which IS THE MID POINT......it doesn't add up man. Israel turns back to God before the Abomination of Desolation, that is why they are protected BY GOD.

 

I think the passage in Luke is speaking about the GREEN  which means alive, sappy fresh tree as apposed to what the Romans were going to do in the DRY/PARCHED/ARID Times or in the hard times. In other words there was to come a time shortly that Israel would be driven to all nations of the world for their disobedience. Those same people who rejected Jesus, would be wailing about their circumstances. 

40 minutes ago, Salty said:

Per John 5:28-29, BOTH the resurrection of life and the resurrection of damnation happen on the day of Jesus' 2nd coming. And that is Jesus speaking. I trust His Word over yours and your common mistake idea you got from men's doctrines that work against Christ.

 

Can't be true, Rev. 20:4 says the Resurrection of the dead is 1000 years later.

[Last Daze]

2 hours ago, Blueyedjewel said:

Does Paul show a difference in scripture between the church and Isreal?

Your last two sentences are indeed true. I am implored to say them back to you!

 

Have a great day!

[Last Daze]

42 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

There is no proof of a post trib rapture because it doesn't exist. There is only a lot of misconceptions by post tribbers. 

You say that as if it is in some way meaningful.

• What I say to you I say to all, ‘Be on the alert!’  Mark 13:37

[Revelation Man]

46 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

You say that as if it is in some way meaningful.

• What I say to you I say to all, ‘Be on the alert!’  Mark 13:37

I say that as if it is the truth, because it is the truth.

[Last Daze]

35 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

I say that as if it is the truth, because it is the truth.

Yeah, and post-tribbers say the same thing too.  Belonging to one or the other rapture camps is meaningless.  Whether one is true or not is irrelevant.  God isn't concerned with anyone's view on the rapture, whether you think you have it figured out or not.  He's concerned with our lifestyle worship.  The whole rapture tiff is a major misdirection.

Jesus emphasizes being ready and alert.  Shouldn't we do the same? 

[Last Daze]

35 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

I say that as if it is the truth, because it is the truth.

Yeah, and post-tribbers say the same thing too.  Belonging to one or the other rapture camps is meaningless.  Whether one is true or not is irrelevant.  God isn't concerned with anyone's view on the rapture, whether you think you have it figured out or not.  He's concerned with our lifestyle worship.  The whole rapture tiff is a major misdirection.

Jesus emphasizes being ready and alert.  Shouldn't we do the same? 

[Revelation Man]

6 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Yeah, and post-tribbers say the same thing too.  Belonging to one or the other rapture camps is meaningless.  Whether one is true or not is irrelevant.  God isn't concerned with anyone's view on the rapture, whether you think you have it figured out or not.  He's concerned with our lifestyle worship.  The whole rapture tiff is a major misdirection.

Jesus emphasizes being ready and alert.  Shouldn't we do the same? 

If the misunderstanding of the timing of the Rapture meant nothing, it wouldn't bother me, but it throws off all of scriptural understandings. One is correct, and the Holy Spirit tells us which one is correct. 

Jesus emphasizes being alert in both instances, to those awaiting the Rapture and to those awaiting the Second Coming. Not understanding which one Is correct leads to people confusing the Church and Israel as the same entity amongst many other things.

[Last Daze]

20 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

If the misunderstanding of the timing of the Rapture meant nothing, it wouldn't bother me, but it throws off all of scriptural understandings. One is correct, and the Holy Spirit tells us which one is correct. 

Jesus emphasizes being alert in both instances, to those awaiting the Rapture and to those awaiting the Second Coming. Not understanding which one s correct leads to people confusing the Church and Israel as the same entity amongst many other things.

There is quite a bit of confusion where eschatology is concerned.  Those who have put the words of Jesus into practice gain wisdom and know His voice.  They won't be confused.  I guess its your choice though to decide which tree to bark up.

Blessings.

[Dennis1209]

On 7/21/2014 at 9:04 PM, Montana Marv said:

I guess Enoch is busy, so I will have to answer my own question.

 

Who are the 24 Elders?  Commentaries agree and disagree on this. In Rev 5:9 translations are different.  KJV has "us" (personal) as those who were purchased, other translations use "men" (more generic) as those who were purchased.

 

If one would lean to the KJV and "us" which is personal.  The NT Brothers in Christ, Bride of Christ are this "us".  The thing is that these 24 Elders have already received their "crown of glory" (their rewards).  This should put a lump in some throats yet cause others to weep.  This has great significance; being - Since these 24 have received their "Crown of Glory/Rewards) and have tossed them to the feet of Jesus; the Bema Seat of Christ in which Rewards are given out to the Church/Bride has already happened prior to the opening of the Scroll (Seals, Trumpets and Bowls Judgments).

 

Omegaman, See if you can pick this apart.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Good points Montana Marv.

By omission the church is not mentioned after Revelation 3:, and the twenty-four elders with crowns show up, and they toss their crowns to Jesus's feet as you stated. The Bible is replete with symbolic numbers.

One: Unity. Two: Union, division, witnessing, Three: Resurrection, Divine completeness and perfection. So on and so forth.

Twenty-four: Is the number for 'the priesthood'. We shall be kings and priests with the Lord Jesus Christ. This number is representative of the raptured church. And the word "rapture" (from the Greek harpazo - to seize), is in the Bible, the Latin Bible.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Dennis1209