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18 hours ago, Salty said:

No, which is why Jesus is coming to marry Jerusalem, and not the "children of the bridechamber":

Matt 9:15
15 And Jesus said unto them, "Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast."
KJV

 

Context. You must study in truth and spirit

A Question About Fasting:

14 Then mthe disciples of John came to him, saying, n“Why do we and othe Pharisees fast,3 but your disciples do not fast?” 15 And Jesus said to them, p“Can the wedding guests mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them? qThe days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and rthen they will fast. 16 No one puts a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment, for the patch tears away from the garment, and a worse tear is made. 17 Neither is new wine put into old swineskins. If it is, the skins burst and the wine is spilled and the skins are destroyed. But new wine is put into fresh wineskins, and so both are preserved.”

 

 

 

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On 10/25/2016 at 10:07 AM, Salty said:

Depends on where in Paul's Epistles you refer to.

Paul taught the believers of the seed of Israel and the believing Gentiles are 'one' in Christ Jesus, one body.

Paul also showed how the unbelievers of the seed of Israel are only graffed back into their own olive tree when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, which will only be on the day of Jesus' 2nd coming.

So as of right now, it is Christ's Church that is holder of most all of God's Promises to Israel (Ephesians 2, Paul's "commonwealth of Israel" idea). The unbelieving Jews only have certain Promises still in effect today. (They lost the throne of David in Jerusalem, they do not have the greatest military nor do they rule the gates of their enemies in the world, they don't have the major blessings of good lands living peacefully without walls, the majority of the seed is still not returned, etc.)

It depends only on your knowledge of the scriptures.  LOL

There is a clear distinction between the church and Israel. 

1 Corinth 10:32 Give none offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God.

 

The church is unique and distinct.

It began at pentecost.

The jews had no concept of the indwelling spirit. Should I share that scripture as well?

The jews had no concept of the MYSTERY.

 

" I show you a mystery,we shall not all sleep"

 

Jews had no concept of leaving and going to the Fathers house!!

 

Jews knew about resurrection but they had no concept of the rapture. It is not for them . It is for the CHURCH!!

 

 

 

 

Pretribbers are looking for Christ

Post tribbers are looking for antichrist

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18 hours ago, Salty said:

No, which is why Jesus is coming to marry Jerusalem, and not the "children of the bridechamber":

Matt 9:15
15 And Jesus said unto them, "Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast."
KJV

 

Matthew 24:48

48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

When you remove the blessed motivation of the saints ,you remove the eminent return of Christ removing us from wrath. You remove the BLESSED HOPE that the CHURCH has. The church began at pentecost(indwelling spirit) and the church is GONE for the next thing God deals with; ISRAEL.

The church did not reject the messiah. 

The church is not mentioned after rev 4 and not again until rev 19! The saints in rev are those who are saved during the rev and not those who were already walking with Christ.

You do not understand the distinction between the church and Israel. I will go into this with many other scripture later. I am a busy gal:)

 

I pray that you ask the Lord to teach you and guide you. You have no hope . You are counting on  dodging Gods wrath. The church is  NOT the woman. The CHURCH is not the one grafted out and added back in in the tribulation. 

My question to post tribbers:

Why do you not believe what God has said?

Why do you think God would drag you through his wrath right along with the earth dwellers and the WOMAN?

 

One word that very much applies:

Dispensation.

 

 

Blessed be the name of the LORD!!

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7 hours ago, Salty said:


The view of the 24 elders is a future forward look, as they sing the new song, which of course ONLY occurs at the end of this world with Jesus' second coming, standing upon Mt. Zion (Sion) per Rev.14.

I don't know why... some like to cloud this matter, the Scripture is clear enough. The rewards are not handed out until Jesus returns and takes possession of all the kingdoms of this world (Rev.11, 7th trumpet forward).

 

True.  The 24 elders were there before the seven spirits of God became a part of the Lamb.  They can't possibly represent the church.

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On 7/21/2014 at 9:04 PM, Montana Marv said:

I guess Enoch is busy, so I will have to answer my own question.

 

Who are the 24 Elders?  Commentaries agree and disagree on this. In Rev 5:9 translations are different.  KJV has "us" (personal) as those who were purchased, other translations use "men" (more generic) as those who were purchased.

 

If one would lean to the KJV and "us" which is personal.  The NT Brothers in Christ, Bride of Christ are this "us".  The thing is that these 24 Elders have already received their "crown of glory" (their rewards).  This should put a lump in some throats yet cause others to weep.  This has great significance; being - Since these 24 have received their "Crown of Glory/Rewards) and have tossed them to the feet of Jesus; the Bema Seat of Christ in which Rewards are given out to the Church/Bride has already happened prior to the opening of the Scroll (Seals, Trumpets and Bowls Judgments).

 

Omegaman, See if you can pick this apart.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Good points Montana Marv.

By omission the church is not mentioned after Revelation 3:, and the twenty-four elders with crowns show up, and they toss their crowns yo Jesus's feet as you stated. The Bible is replete with symbolic numbers.

One: Unity. Two: Union, division, witnessing, Three: Resurrection, Divine completeness and perfection. So on and so forth.

Twenty-four: Is the number for 'the priesthood'. We shall be kings and priests with the Lord Jesus Christ

9 hours ago, Salty said:


The view of the 24 elders is a future forward look, as they sing the new song, which of course ONLY occurs at the end of this world with Jesus' second coming, standing upon Mt. Zion (Sion) per Rev.14.

I don't know why... some like to cloud this matter, the Scripture is clear enough. The rewards are not handed out until Jesus returns and takes possession of all the kingdoms of this world (Rev.11, 7th trumpet forward).

 

The Scripture is clear enough, really? Why all the divisions between denominations, scholars, experts, pastors, teachers, pre-mid-post tribulation, amillennial, premillennial views etc. etc.?

I'm pretribulation myself and that's my hermeneutics.

There is some debate as to the exact timing of the Bema Seat. Some understand it to occur at the moment of death for each believer. Others believe the Bema Seat to occur during the end times, with all believers being judged at that time. It does not truly matter when the Bema Seat occurs. It is far more important that we be prepared for the Bema Seat.

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7 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Your problem seems to be if Scriptures sound alike anywhere in the Bible, you just assume it has to be a conjoined prophecy or event. The scriptures in Revelation which is during the Seals has nothing to do with Luke 23, Jesus is telling those women, these same men that kill me, will be driven out of this land in a few years or in like 30 years. And sure enough because Israel kept rising up against Roman Rule, they quashed them, tore down their Temple and dispersed them the world over, in time. Luke 23 and Revelation chapter 6 are not the same EVENT !! Its Just not.

 

I wrote a post explaining the "All Israel" will be saved, it does't meant that every Jew will be saved and except Christ, it means that the Nation of Israel as a Whole finally except Jesus as their Messiah. If only 95 percent of the Jews accept Jesus as the Messiah, all ISRAEL (as a NATION) have finally turned to God as a PEOPLES. Just like when Israel fell out of favor and was punished, you still had men of God that served God, yet Israel was punished, likewise, not EVERY JEW has to accept Christ Jesus as the Messiah for Israel to turn back to God as a Nation. When a LARGE Portion turn back unto God and accept Jesus (Zechariah 12:10) then ALL ISRAEL will be Saved. And God will start fighting her battles again, protecting her in the wilderness, nourishing her in the wilderness etc. etc. etc. 

That's funny, because if there is more than one example of a prophecy in God's Word, it does mean they are linked to the same subject. And every truth is to be established by two or more witnesses per God's Word.

 

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6 hours ago, Blueyedjewel said:

 

Context. You must study in truth and spirit

A Question About Fasting:

14 Then mthe disciples of John came to him, saying, n“Why do we and othe Pharisees fast,3 but your disciples do not fast?” 15 And Jesus said to them, p“Can the wedding guests mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them? qThe days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and rthen they will fast. 16 No one puts a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old garment, for the patch tears away from the garment, and a worse tear is made. 17 Neither is new wine put into old swineskins. If it is, the skins burst and the wine is spilled and the skins are destroyed. But new wine is put into fresh wineskins, and so both are preserved.”

Matt 9:15
15 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.
KJV

Christ's servants are those symbolic "children of the bridechamber", which is pointing to the idea of waiting for Him with fasting, until His 2nd coming. Thus they are NOT the Bride. Here is the Bride:

Rev 21:2
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
KJV

 

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7 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

No it isn't, Jesus marries the Church, ALL OF THE CHURCH that was ready at his SHOUT....Not some of the Church, you see what lengths you guys have to go to to make it work out ? The whole Church will not Marry the Lamb in Heaven, its only the Saints who slept who are in Heaven, even thou 1 Corinthians chapter 15 expressly tells us that those ALIVE and Remaining change into incorruptible bodies and go to Heaven.

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

 

This passage clearly states the Dead in Christ (those asleep) and those Christians alive will be Raptured at the same time. Your biggest problem is just like the Luke 23 passage, you guys get hung up on the "LAST TRUMP" and allow it to confuse and deceive you. The Last Trump is in Reference to what calls forth the Feast of Atonement and the Feast of Tabernacle every year for Israel, it is the Feast of Trumpets. At the last Trump, we the Church (of Pentecost as in the Feast of Pentecost) will be called Home, and it will be Israels time of Atonement (Jacobs Trouble will bring Israel to Repentance) then the Last Feast will be when Israel Tabernacles with God (Dwells with God). 

....

Well, no.1 and no.2 will happen very quickly, but the asleep saints will be first raised, which is how Jesus brings them with Him when He 'descends' to this earth, as written:

1 Thess 4:14-17
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

This passage in bold Paul reveals those of us yet alive on earth shall not... "prevent" the saints that are asleep. In the Greek the word "prevent" actually means 'precede, or go beforehand'. Thus the asleep saints are first raised and accompany Jesus. Then those of us yet alive on earth are changed and caught up with them.

 

16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

There is a second proof of what I'm saying with that, "and the dead in Christ shall rise first:".

 

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV

 

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7 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Again, a classic misunderstanding, and you can explain to post tribbers till you are blue in the face, and one week later they will cite the very same, tired old passage, that is irrelevant.  We UNDERSTAND there will be people in the Tribulation that give their Lives to Jesus Christ, why do you guys PRETEND we haven't explained this 40 million times ? Of course after the Rapture their will be many converts, we see that God is still sending preachers of the Gospel forth to preach, we understand that 5 of the Virgins were FOOLISH and did not have enough oil (Holy Spirit) to make it to the Marriage of the Lamb. These are the SAINTS who are overcome by Satan. This is elementary. So PEOPLE BECOME CHRISTIANS, after the Rapture (I am sure if you are left behind as 100's of millions are taken, you will repent, as would I and become a true Christian, If I was left behind, I would understand, I had sin in my life somewhere that needed dealing with !! ) and THOSE ARE THE Saints that Satan makes war with and Beheads, because when he can not Get at Israel (Rev. 12) he is angry and turns towards the Christians or Remnant (Small part that is Left) of the SEED of the Woman (Israel). 

Fact is, to claim the saints in Revelation are left out of Christ's Church is to distort the very fabric of God's Truth in His Word! It's kind of like saying, "Those aren't the real saints, I'm a real saint", pretty much the height of obnoxiousness. And the saints mentioned in Rev.13 is pointing to those ordained in Christ all the way from the foundation of the world, an idea which Apostles Paul and Peter both used to point to Christ's Church in Ephesians 1 & 2 and 1 Peter 1.

 

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6 hours ago, Blueyedjewel said:

It depends only on your knowledge of the scriptures.  LOL

There is a clear distinction between the church and Israel. 

1 Corinth 10:32 Give none offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God.

 

The church is unique and distinct.

It began at pentecost.

The jews had know concept of the indwelling spirit. Should I share that scripture as well?

The jews had no concept of the MYSTERY.

 

" I show you a mystery,we shall not all sleep"

 

Jews had no concept of leaving and going to the Fathers house!!

 

Jews knew about ressurection but they no concept of the rapture. It is not for them . It is for the CHURCH

 

 

 

 

Pretribbers are looking for Christ

Post tribbers are looking for antichrist

No, there is no clear distinction between Christ's Church and Israel, which is easily shown by Apostle Paul in this Scripture:

Eph 2:11-13
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
KJV

Hate to break the news to ya, but Paul just dumped Pre-trib's false idea of a separation between believing Israel and believing Gentiles.

Notice he did not say... "commonwealth of the Church", but instead "commonwealth of Israel".

 

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