Outer Darkness

[Unfailing Presence]

Not exactly dancing in the sunlight .

The best description I have heard of " outer darkness "  which I believe does not even begin to scratch the surface in terms of the reality of the  horror the Word of God alludes to is to be groping about terrified

in ink black darkness , only to finally sense some relief at finding  a dimly lit mirror , and then look into the mirror and see nothing  .

 

                   " Men ought always to pray . "    ( Luke  18 : 1 )

[other one]

On 3/31/2017 at 0:33 PM, JTC said:

Here are some more mind twisting ideas.

1. Time isn't real. What I mean is there's no past you can travel to nor a future you can travel to. Time only seems to exist bc we're mortal and everything around us is physical. Now it may be possible to slow the passage of time for us and then you'd be in a future where everything has changed. But you can never come back bc the only thing real is NOW. For God, who is immortal, time has no meaning.

2. God is every where because everything is God.

3. I have a problem with the idea of other dimensions bc there's no proof they exist. No one's ever gone to one. Same problem with multiple universes. It's science fiction fantasy as far as I'm concerned.

Btw, for the sake of preserving my sanity I quit trying to figure this stuff out a long time ago. It's anxiety provoking. 

with our physical bodies we can't exist in other dimensions....    if you read the papers written by the people running CERN, they are opening doors to other dimensions in thier research.'

I would not call them science fiction.

[JTC]

14 hours ago, other one said:

with our physical bodies we can't exist in other dimensions....    if you read the papers written by the people running CERN, they are opening doors to other dimensions in thier research.'

I would not call them science fiction.

I tried finding information on CERN on the Internet and the text articles are too much for me to read. So I tried You Tube and what I found sounds ridiculous. Like CERN is opening gates to hell and demons are coming out. I don't buy that. We already have demons and fallen angels here they don't need CERN to bring them here. The only credible thing I read is CERN is smashing subatomic particles trying to find smaller ones. IMO the only reason to believe protons, neutrons and electrons are real is bc we have mathematical formulas that explain the particles and we've used this theory to create a bomb and reactors that boil water which make electricity. Has anything useful come of CERN? I have a hunch CERN is going to be like the theory of evolution, so many billions of dollars, man hours, jobs, and promises are going to be invested that if nothing comes of it the scientists are never going to admit it. So can you explain what these other dimensions are they opened doors to?  

[Spock]

On 8/5/2016 at 6:54 PM, kwikphilly said:

Blessings....

    I was reading a Thread here about God is Light   the OP speaks asks about the nature of light,light from the Solar Sun, but what is the nature of that light from a scientific standpoint?  He says light makes up both visible and invisible attributes.  Doesn't God have both visible and invisible attributes?  Anyway, I started to think about the opposite,darkness,the outer darkness..........out of the Presence of God....     What is the nature of darkness & "outer darkness" from a scientific standpoint? Gods Word says this is the place that the unprofitable servant will go,where?The fallen angels left their first estate,Heaven....the Presence of God,right? But God is everywhere,isn't He?

I have some thoughts I will share later but I'm wondering what y'all have to contribute,I know Saved.One & post will offer much-lol     Praise Jesus!

 

                                                                                                                                                                          With love-in Christ,Kwik

Hi Kwik,

Heck, I can't even wrap my head around DARK MATTER ,let alone figure out this one. 

One comment you did make which got me thinking. "God is everywhere."  I have never quite fully grasped that yet either, but I always thought that meant God knows everything no matter where it is at. I could never picture Him actually being everywhere. I know God is spirit, but I always thought this meant his thoughts are everywhere, in other words, nothing escapes him. 

I haven't read the thread yet, so I think I need to. Maybe somebody shared some cool insight. 

Love you,Spock 

[Spock]

On 9/12/2016 at 5:04 PM, Tristen said:

Hi Kwikphilly,

 

 

I suppose from a scientific standpoint, darkness is the absence of light - i.e. unlike light, darkness is a condition rather than an entity itself.

 

I'm not sure how far to stretch the analogy between God and light. I’ve noticed ideas quickly become paradoxical when trying to narrow down finite conceptions of God's eternal existence (Trinity is a good example). There is, of course, no rule stating that our finite minds should be able to fully comprehend the eternal nature of God.

 

 

 

So we are taught that God is omnipresent/everywhere. Does that mean that God is in hell (which could technically be defined as absence from God - see 2 Thessalonians 1:2)? Does that mean God/light is in darkness – then how is there darkness when light overcomes darkness?

 

God is the Creator of the physical universe – including all of space and time. Since we are currently confined to that universe, it is likely impossible for us to conceive of an existence beyond time and space (especially a reality devoid of time). As God is eternal/infinite, the physical universe must exist within the ‘boundaries’ of His own existence. As becomes quickly evident, our finite language is ill-equipped to deal with such concepts (i.e. an eternal/infinite God has no “boundaries”, and without time, it is logically inconsistent to speak of an existence ‘before’ time).

 

I wonder if omnipresence only applies to the natural, physical created universe. The concept of ‘everywhere’ can only be applied within a context where “where” makes sense. Outside of the natural universe, there is no “where” for God to fill. There is the reality of God’s eternal, unending existence, but no physical space (i.e. “where”) for Him to be present in.

 

 

 

Sorry, I appear to have raised more questions than answered.

 

Great post, tristen.  Thanks. 

[kwikphilly]

Hey Spock...

   Yeah,it is a brain twister,huh? I'll tell you, the funny thing is that I wrote that almost a year ago & I can't even remember what I was pondering at that time.....you know how you can really get into something & you are all gung-ho about the subject & then you move on to other things & say"What was I thinking?"LOL

   All ki0dding aside,I do wonder "where" these places are in the unseen realm/dimensions...the one that really blows my mind is  "eternity",not bbound by space or time,thats what I cannot wrap my head around Brother                               Love you too....in Christ,Kwik

[No124get1952]

The Outer Darkness question is a very interesting one. God IS light; that is firmly established. Because God is omnipotent, anywhere He is or can go can have no darkness. However, because He is also all powerful, the idea of "outer darkness", a place where God will no go is very terrifying. We all know that the farther you get away from light, the more shadows there are. It's why most of us have a fear of the dark....because we cannot see in the dark and we do not know what is in the shadows. Therefore, a place of outer darkness implies a place where God's light doesn't penetrate.

Please note that I said doesn't and not can't. God is Sovereign so He can do anything He wants. But if He has designed a place of outer darkness where His light does NOT go (because He chooses not to send it), then that is a place of utter separation from God and I do NOT want to go there; I don't even want to think about it.

As for black holes, I am not certain we know enough about them to be able to classify them as outer darkness. I think I would rather be in a black hole than in outer darkness. I am not sure we are scientifically informed enough on this one.

It comes down to a binary choice. If it is light, it is God. If it is NOT light, it's not God.

[JTC]

I never took Calculus so I have a very hard time understanding this stuff. Since I never took calculus I don't really trust it. As far as I know, the Dark Matter idea comes from calculus. Using their formulas they calculate that there's more matter in the universe than they can account for with what we see. But those numbers are also theoretical in nature. Every time we think a certain area of the universe is empty we invent a new more powerful telescope and then we see something in the area we thought was empty. What we once thought were individual stars turned out that some are entire galaxies. So when they say there's more matter than we can see, they're making a huge assumption that we have seen all the visible matter there is. Maybe we haven't. Dark matter simply means invisible matter and the only reason I believe it may be true is because the Bible says some things are invisible. But I think the Bible means spiritual things and the scientists don't know what they mean. They have these formulas and the formulas indicate there's more matter than other formulas estimate there should be. So they call it dark matter. It also has a lot to do with gravitational effects on what we do see. I do know all matter has gravity and that means more formulas. I also want to point out that they make up the rules for these formulas. I was once good at algebra once I learned the rules. Calculus has rules too but they can add rules if they can prove they work with read numbers and what came before the new rules.

I'm rambling here, so I better stop.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

51 minutes ago, JTC said:

I never took Calculus so I have a very hard time understanding this stuff. Since I never took calculus I don't really trust it. As far as I know, the Dark Matter idea comes from calculus. Using their formulas they calculate that there's more matter in the universe than they can account for with what we see. But those numbers are also theoretical in nature. Every time we think a certain area of the universe is empty we invent a new more powerful telescope and then we see something in the area we thought was empty. What we once thought were individual stars turned out that some are entire galaxies. So when they say there's more matter than we can see, they're making a huge assumption that we have seen all the visible matter there is. Maybe we haven't. Dark matter simply means invisible matter and the only reason I believe it may be true is because the Bible says some things are invisible. But I think the Bible means spiritual things and the scientists don't know what they mean. They have these formulas and the formulas indicate there's more matter than other formulas estimate there should be. So they call it dark matter. It also has a lot to do with gravitational effects on what we do see. I do know all matter has gravity and that means more formulas. I also want to point out that they make up the rules for these formulas. I was once good at algebra once I learned the rules. Calculus has rules too but they can add rules if they can prove they work with read numbers and what came before the new rules.

I'm rambling here, so I better stop.

Dark matter didn't come from Calculus, and neither did Differential Equations, the next step beyond Calculus.  Before computers, calculators, and iPhones, I was studying Calculus and Diff. Eq. preparing for my engineering degree. 

Physicists, Cosmologists, Astronomers, et al, study the nature of the universe that God created.  Dark Matter should not be confused with Dark Energy.  Two different things entirely.  Dark Matter refers to the fact that it does not emit or interact with electromagnetic radiation, such as light, and is thus invisible to the entire electromagnetic spectrum.  Its existence can only be inferred.  God does this a lot in nature to prove our faith in Him. 

[Dennis1209]

On 3/31/2017 at 1:33 PM, JTC said:

Here are some more mind twisting ideas.

1. Time isn't real. What I mean is there's no past you can travel to nor a future you can travel to. Time only seems to exist bc we're mortal and everything around us is physical. Now it may be possible to slow the passage of time for us and then you'd be in a future where everything has changed. But you can never come back bc the only thing real is NOW. For God, who is immortal, time has no meaning.

2. God is every where because everything is God.

3. I have a problem with the idea of other dimensions bc there's no proof they exist. No one's ever gone to one. Same problem with multiple universes. It's science fiction fantasy as far as I'm concerned.

Btw, for the sake of preserving my sanity I quit trying to figure this stuff out a long time ago. It's anxiety provoking. 

Well, if God is not subject to time and space and lives in the third heaven... It seems reasonable to assume there is more than our four dimensional world of (length, width, height and time). It's proven time is not the same for everyone, therefor it's a physical property. In other words, my passage of time is not the same as yours.

Light is extremely fascinating to me! The Bible has a lot to say about the subject of light, from Genesis to Revelation. It's another one of those mysteries that confounds scientists. Photons behave differently depending if they are being observed or not. Apparently, a light wave may not be finite, and we can only visually see, even with specialized optics a infinitesimal bit of it. Think of all we can't see. We're probably all going to be amazed at the colors and grandeur and astonishment of what things look like when we receive our resurrected / transformed bodies, isn't that going to be glorious! I highly suspect that before the fall of Adam and Eve, they could see into the spiritual world and much more than we visibly can discern today? I've heard we may actually "see" music coming off of instruments, see the actual colors of flowers and the creation singing visually. WOW! Several places in scripture state, for your eyes have not seen...

At any rate, the preceding is well above my pay grade and subject to close scrutiny.