Hell.

[brakelite]

There are often discussions on the nature and/or longevity of hell. It is believed by most that the wicked, in order to meet the justice of a righteous God, suffer for all eternity in "hellfire" without being consumed by it. But is that what the Bible really teaches? Let us see....

Isaiah 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

....so, who DOES dwell in the everlasting burnings???

15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil.

 

He that walks in righteousness? Really? Consider all the following...

Exodus 3:1-5....19:18-20....40:38....1 Kings 8:10,11....Ezek. 28:14.....Daniel 7:9,10.....Hebrews 12:29

Lots of fire in all these different scenarios, but nothing was burned...

 

Except there is a warning against the wicked that they should avoid at all costs this fire. Why? See Exodus 19:21-24.....and do you remember the account of Nadab and Abihu? See Levit. 10:1,2.

 

So some things perish in the same fire that others things continue to survive in! What is this fire? It is the very presence of God. When Moses went up to the top of Sinai he went into the midst of fre and smoke and thunder and lightening for 40 days and came back with his face shining so much the people couldn't bear it and demanded he cover it up. Even a reflection of God's glory was unbearable to sinners. That is why only the High Priest, and only after serious preparation, could enter the Most Holy Place, and then only once a year...and with a rope tied to his ankle in case he fell before the Lord and someone had to drag him out!

Oh, and when Nadab and Abihu were taken out from being "devoured in the fire", they were still fully dressed, yet fully dead!!!

So, according to Isaiah, the righteous are enabled to live in the everlasting fire of the Lord's presence forever, but that same fire consumes sinners. Thus the fire of God is NOT a fire of COMBUSTION, but a fire that consumes sin!!! And sin, as we all would agree, is rooted in the (father of) lies, deceptions, and selfishness of Satan. These principles of evil are not going to be destroyed by a physical fire, but at the very last, by the presence of God Himself as He comes with the New Jerusalem and devours the wicked. See Revel. 20:9

And what of sin in the repentant sinner? What destroys that? Again, not a physical fire, but the presence of God. The lies, deceptions, and selfishness is are destroyed by the Spirit of Truth and Love and Light. See...

John 14:17;15:26;16:13; Romans 1:4; 8:2; 8:9; 1 Cor. 6:11; 2 Cor. 3:3,17,18; 2 Tim 1:7; 1 Peter 4:14....

When the Holy Spirit came at Pentecost were the disciples devoured by the fire that came with it? No, they were prepared for service. John the Baptist said the Jesus would baptize His people with the Holy Spirit AND with fire. It is the fire of the presence of God in our lives that devours sin and selfishness. If any claim to be "filled with the Holy Spirit" and "the presence of God" yet you still are clinging to sin, your claims are false. If the principle action of the Holy Spirit in the believers life is not to bring the repentant sinner into harmony with the righteousness of God, you are partaking of a false spirit.

And finally, the presence of God does not torture sinners for all eternity...it destroys them for all eternity. It is an eternal death which is the everlasting punishment. Not torture. The wages of sin is death, not torture. Sinners are NOT immortal. Immortal life belongs ONLY to God, (1 Timothy 6:15,16) and is given as a GIFT to those who are saved through faith in the blood of the Lamb...eternal life is NOT given as a gift to sinners in order that they may be tortured for all eternity. Read again John 3:16. That one single verse, the most well known in the entire Bible, is the ONLY verse needed, if believed, to refute forever any notion that hell is a place of eternal physical suffering. If now, you are thinking of quoting another verse which you claim says different, you do not believe in John 3:15,16

[Ezra]

55 minutes ago, brakelite said:

There are often discussions on the nature and/or longevity of hell

Welcome brakelite.  Check out the already existing threads on this subject.

[RustyAngeL]

Welcome to Worthy!

Blessings, RustyAngeL

[kwikphilly]

Quote

in blazing fire. He will inflict vengeance on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, separated from the presence of the Lordand the glory of His might, 10on the day He comes to be glorified in His saints and regarded with wonder by all who have believed, including you who have believed our testimony.…     2 Thess 1:8-10

Berean Study Bible 

That's right,Gods Glory & Presence Will not be there ,they will endure EVERLASTING TORMENT in the fire......it is a very urgent matter to spread the Gospel,a matter of Eternal importance.......No,God does not "torture" people,He gives them free will to choose their own destination,with Him or without Him

 And welcome to Worthy                                                                           With love-in Christ,Kwik

[brakelite]

1 hour ago, kwikphilly said:

That's right,Gods Glory & Presence Will not be there ,they will endure EVERLASTING TORMENT in the fire......it is a very urgent matter to spread the Gospel,a matter of Eternal importance.......No,God does not "torture" people,He gives them free will to choose their own destination,with Him or without Him

 And welcome to Worthy                                                                           With love-in Christ,Kwik

Thankyou for the welcome. I have been a member for about 5 years, but only for a short time was I active. Please tell me, how do you equate the words of scripture saying " They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, separated from the presence of the Lord and the glory of His might,"  with your own words, "everlasting torment"? Eternal destruction surely means simply that. To misconstrue it to mean eternal life, but just at a different address, is gravely (excuse the pun) misapplying scripture is it not?

[brakelite]

And thankyou to all others who have welcomed me here. Like the new presentation by the way.

[Guest shiloh357]

34 minutes ago, brakelite said:

Thankyou for the welcome. I have been a member for about 5 years, but only for a short time was I active. Please tell me, how do you equate the words of scripture saying " They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, separated from the presence of the Lord and the glory of His might,"  with your own words, "everlasting torment"? Eternal destruction surely means simply that. To misconstrue it to mean eternal life, but just at a different address, is gravely (excuse the pun) misapplying scripture is it not?

The problem is that you are applying words like "destruction"  the way we apply them within our limited frame of reference.   The way the Bible presents it, it will not be the case that those in hell are simply burnt to ash.   But rather it will be an everlasting (continuous) destroying.

And living forever is not the same as eternal life.  

[Willa]

Perhaps Isaiah 33:14 is taken out of context.

Isa 33:9  The land mourns and languishes. Lebanon is confounded and withers away. Sharon is like a desert, and Bashan and Carmel are stripped bare.

Isa 33:10  “Now I will arise,” says Yahweh; “Now I will lift myself up. Now I will be exalted.  Isa 33:11  You will conceive chaff. You will give birth to stubble. Your breath is a fire that will devour you.  Isa 33:12  The peoples will be like the burning of lime, like thorns that are cut down and burned in the fire. Isa 33:13  Hear, you who are far off, what I have done; and, you who are near, acknowledge my might.”

Isa 33:14  The sinners in Zion are afraid. Trembling has seized the godless ones. Who among us can live with the devouring fire? Who among us can live with everlasting burning?

Isa 33:15  He who walks righteously, and speaks blamelessly; He who despises the gain of oppressions, who gestures with his hands, refusing to take a bribe, who stops his ears from hearing of blood, and shuts his eyes from looking at evil—Isa 33:16  he will dwell on high. His place of defense will be the fortress of rocks. His bread will be supplied. His waters will be sure.

Isa 33:17  Your eyes will see the king in his beauty. They will see a distant land.

[brakelite]

36 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

The problem is that you are applying words like "destruction"  the way we apply them within our limited frame of reference.   The way the Bible presents it, it will not be the case that those in hell are simply burnt to ash.   But rather it will be an everlasting (continuous) destroying.

And living forever is not the same as eternal life.  

If there was only one text which speaks of the sinners destruction, then perhaps, I would be inclined to agree with you, that maybe context or something else may help explain a different understanding to the word. However, there are numerous texts and even entire passages that speak of the sinners destruction. Even several of Jesus parables echo the very same thought and principle, for example the burning to ashes of the branches that didn't bear fruit. Here are a small selection for your perusal...

They shall be destroyed...Psalm 145:20;101:8;37:38;92:7;Prov.13:13;10:29;Phil.3:19;1 Tim.6:9; 2 Thess.1:9; Matt 7:13

 

They shall perish....Ps.37:20;Prov. 19:9; Luke 13:3; Jn 3:16.

 

Oh, and by the way...living forever...not ever dying but being subjected to torture without end and without hope...is eternal life.

 

They shall cease to exist. Psalm 37:10

perhaps I could add to that Malachi

4:1 ¶  For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2  But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3  And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

 

Edited August 6, 2016 by brakelite

[missmuffet]

Those in hell will be tortured for an eternity. That is forever and ever never ending. They will be very aware of this for an eternity.

Question: "Is annihilationism biblical?"

Answer: Annihilationism is the belief that unbelievers will not experience an eternity of suffering in hell, but will instead be “extinguished” after death. For many, annihilationism is an attractive belief because of the awfulness of the idea of people spending eternity in hell. While there are some passages that seem to argue for annihilationism, a comprehensive look at what the Bible says about the destiny of the wicked reveals the fact that punishment in hell is eternal. A belief in annihilationism results from a misunderstanding of one or more of the following doctrines: 1) the consequences of sin, 2) the justice of God, 3) the nature of hell.

In relation to the nature of hell, annihilationists misunderstand the meaning of the lake of fire. Obviously, if a human being were cast into a lake of burning lava, he/she would be almost instantly consumed. However, the lake of fire is both a physical and spiritual realm. It is not simply a human body being cast into the lake of fire; it is a human’s body, soul, and spirit. A spiritual nature cannot be consumed by physical fire. It seems that the unsaved are resurrected with a body prepared for eternity just as the saved are (Revelation 20:13; Acts 24:15). These bodies are prepared for an eternal fate.

Eternity is another aspect which annihilationists fail to fully comprehend. Annihilationists are correct that the Greek word aionion, which is usually translated “eternal,” does not by definition mean “eternal.” It specifically refers to an “age” or “eon,” a specific period of time. However, it is clear that in New Testament, aionion is sometimes used to refer to an eternal length of time. Revelation 20:10 speaks of Satan, the beast, and the false prophet being cast into the lake of fire and being tormented “day and night forever and ever.” It is clear that these three are not “extinguished” by being cast into the lake of fire. Why would the fate of the unsaved be any different (Revelation 20:14-15)? The most convincing evidence for the eternality of hell is Matthew 25:46, “Then they [the unsaved] will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” In this verse, the same Greek word is used to refer to the destiny of the wicked and the righteous. If the wicked are only tormented for an “age,” then the righteous will only experience life in heaven for an “age.” If believers will be in heaven forever, unbelievers will be in hell forever.

Another frequent objection to the eternality of hell by annihilationists is that it would be unjust for God to punish unbelievers in hell for eternity for a finite amount of sin. How could it be fair for God to take a person who lived a sinful, 70-year life, and punish him/her for all of eternity? The answer is that our sin bears an eternal consequence because it is committed against an eternal God. When King David committed the sins of adultery and murder he stated, “Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight…” (Psalm 51:4). David had sinned against Bathsheba and Uriah; how could David claim to have only sinned against God? David understood that all sin is ultimately against God. God is an eternal and infinite Being. As a result, all sin against Him is worthy of an eternal punishment. It is not a matter of the length of time we sin, but the character of the God against whom we sin.

A more personal aspect of annihilationism is the idea that we could not possibly be happy in heaven if we knew that some of our loved ones were suffering an eternity of torment in hell. However, when we arrive in heaven, we will not have anything to complain about or be saddened by. Revelation 21:4 tells us, “He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” If some of our loved ones are not in heaven, we will be in 100 percent complete agreement that they do not belong there and that they are condemned by their own refusal to accept Jesus Christ as their Savior (John 3:16; 14:6). It is hard to understand this, but we will not be saddened by the lack of their presence. Our focus should not be on how we can enjoy heaven without all of our loved ones there, but on how we can point our loved ones to faith in Christ so that they will be there.

Hell is perhaps a primary reason why God sent Jesus Christ to pay the penalty for our sins. Being “extinguished” after death is no fate to dread, but an eternity in hell most definitely is. Jesus’ death was an infinite death, paying our infinite sin debt so that we would not have to pay it in hell for eternity (2 Corinthians 5:21). When we place our faith in Him, we are saved, forgiven, cleansed, and promised an eternal home in heaven. But if we reject God’s gift of eternal life, we will face the eternal consequences of that decision.

http://www.gotquestions.org/annihilationism.html