saved before birth.........Mary

[FresnoJoe]

3 hours ago, Thallasa said:

I think reading between the lines you are trying to say that Mary was saved before birth, by God in order that He might have a human, but purified eternal  body to give birth to Him . This is what I would believe, and that those who are determined to take Mary down to their level, are wrong.

While the RCC and Catholics make too much of Mary whom I love and honour as the mother who gave birth to my Saviour, I do not pray to her, but thank her .  Those who treat her in a minable manière have bad fruits . ...being  materialistic, military , freemason ridden, unkind in general; in fact, unlivable in the long term .

So, the RCC has gone far too  far, but so has the other side. 

Here Is Mary's Song
I Make No Protest Nor Will  I Object
However Beloved, I Trust Dear Mary And Her Holy Words
Over All Those Wicked Man With Their
Mocking Queen-Of-Heaven
(A Demon god Of Old)
Their Dishonorable
And Horrible
Mary Fetish

It Is No Wonder Some Folk Kept The Bible Away
From The Very Ones Jesus Died For
You Think....

And Mary said,

“My soul magnifies the Lord,

and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,

for he has looked on the humble estate of his servant. For behold, from now on all generations will call me blessed;

for he who is mighty has done great things for me, and holy is his name.

And his mercy is for those who fear him from generation to generation.

He has shown strength with his arm; he has scattered the proud in the thoughts of their hearts;

he has brought down the mighty from their thrones and exalted those of humble estate;

he has filled the hungry with good things, and the rich he has sent away empty.

He has helped his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy,

as he spoke to our fathers, to Abraham and to his offspring forever.” Luke 1:46-55 (English Standard Version)Zap

And The LORD God This Young Jewish Girl Worshiped Is Yeshua

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Matthew 1:23 (New International Version)

(Jesus)

She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins." Matthew 1:21 (New International Version)

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.” Matthew 2:1-2 (New International Version)

Merry Christmas~!

~

May God (Jesus) Bless His Israel, And Save Her

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Marilyn C]

On ‎15‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 6:46 AM, wincam said:

so what is the problem - just with Mary - when in fact we are all saved before we are born - all that is required is that we accept, hold on and not reject or deny our free gift - that Mary fulfilled all these requirements is beyond question or doubt - wincam

Hi wincam,

I have had conversations with a friend who now attends Catholic meetings. She tells me that God made Mary perfect at the moment of her conception so that Christ would not be born in an imperfect body. The error here, apart from not being scriptural is that the life blood of a baby is from the father - a father`s blood line. Mary provided the human physical part of Christ but His life`s blood came via the Holy Spirit - the very life of God. The mother`s blood never comes in contact with the baby in the womb -  a medical fact.

Thus Christ never had Adam`s blood line (fallen, degenerate etc) Christ is the second Adam & He is a life giving spirit giving forth His supernatural life apart from blood.

 

Marilyn.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Marilyn C

[TheMatrixHasU71]

On ‎14‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 5:46 PM, wincam said:

so what is the problem - just with Mary - when in fact we are all saved before we are born - all that is required is that we accept, hold on and not reject or deny our free gift - that Mary fulfilled all these requirements is beyond question or doubt - wincam

Sorry, we are not saved before we are born. Neither was Mary.

We are saved the moment we make the profession of our faith of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior

Romans 10:9   That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

(Infants cannot do this; therefore the Lord does not hold them accountable for sin).

Catholic teaching about Mary is blasphemous nonsense

[Guest Robert]

On 8/16/2016 at 0:50 PM, Thallasa said:

Maybe from the Holy Spirit . If the word of God as you call it is so complete ,why has there been so  much disagreement, and down right violence in the history of protestantism  ? Why are there so manyProtestant freemasons ,and breakng away from the most basic Christian tenets ?

That fault is man's, not scripture's. Denominations are fences built around the long-cold fires of where the Holy Spirit once alighted. As far as Freemasonry goes, that is not Christian. As a former Catholic, I've seen the flaws and faults in the RCC, and I've also seen flaws in Protestantism. But Scripture never denotes a bunch of different denominations; there has only ever been the way God has called people by, and while the different Dispensations have varied in how God has handled that, one constant has always been the coming of the Messiah, NOT the "Messiah's mother".

Also: the "Holy Spirit" denoting wincam's theology? The Holy Spirit is not going to contradict what has already been spoke in Scripture, as the Spirit is the Breath of God, and Jesus is the Word of God. Scripture clearly states there is one mediator between God and man, and that is Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5); it also clearly states that God so loved the world, He sent His only begotten Son (John 3:16), not "The Son and His mother on Earth". We do not make doctrine on what Scripture does not say.

On that note: "The word of God as I call it"? With all due respect Thallasa, what do you call it?

ALL of scripture is God breathed (2 TImothy 3:16), not just the parts that we like, or those parts that support our positions. Peter recognized Paul's writings as scripture, (2 Peter 3:16), Jesus said that David "spoke by the Holy Spirit" (Mark 12:36), as well as stating:

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you." (John 14:26, NASB)
---------------------------------

Now onto the subject proper: the final "death knell" for Mary being the supposed "co-redeemer" comes from Mary's own words in what is called the Magnificat:

"And Mary said: “My soul exalts the Lord, And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. For He has had regard for the humble state of His bondslave; For behold, from this time on all generations will count me blessed. For the Mighty One has done great things for me; And holy is His name." (Luke 1:46-49, NASB, emphasis mine)

If Mary were "sinless", then why would she be calling God "my Savior"? She also denotes she would be blessed because the "Mighty One has done great things in me"; this is recognition of who God is and Mary is not, not a proclamation of how deserving she is to be "co-redemptrix". The fact that Mary herself said she needed a savior removes her from any possibility of redeeming anyone...

 

Mary was a sinner, just like the rest of us.

 

The problem begins with Pope Pius IX's Ineffabilis Deus in 1854, where he claimed in "dogma": the immaculate conception of Mary, supposedly preserving her from" inheriting original sin". As much as Pope Pius IX may have wanted that to be true, his proclamation of Mary's "sinlessness" contradicts her own words in scripture, Paul's words in Romans 3;23 that " For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God", Ecclesiates 7:20, which tells us " Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.", or Job 15:14, which says " What is man, that he should be pure, Or he who is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?".

It then becomes a battle of who we are to believe: God's written word (OT and NT alike), or the words of men that contradict it? We cannot have the Holy Spirit supporting both, as God does not lie nor is there any shadow of turning in Him.

 

But as far as the "Holy Spirit" telling anyone something that contradicts scripture: that was NOT the Holy Spirit of God.
 

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2016 by RobertS

[Guest shiloh357]

On 8/16/2016 at 5:32 AM, wincam said:

 

it is in the bible but only for those with eyes to see and ears to hear viz "by one woman sin entered the world and by one woman our saviour entered the world" - wincam

No, Rom. 5:12-21 says that sin came into the world through Adam, and he never mentions Eve.  Paul repeatedly lays the blame for sin on Adam in the NT.   Eve was deceived, but Adam was not.  Adam knowingly and purposely rebelled against God with both eyes open and that is why He shoulders the blame. 

[Guest Thallasa]

On ‎16‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 9:09 PM, Behold said:

If we are all saved before we are born, then why did Jesus have to die on a Cross?

If we are all saved before we are born, then why does God require that we "believe on Jesus whom God sent"?
 

 

 

12 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

No, Rom. 5:12-21 says that sin came into the world through Adam, and he never mentions Eve.  Paul repeatedly lays the blame for sin on Adam in the NT.   Eve was deceived, but Adam was not.  Adam knowingly and purposely rebelled against God with both eyes open and that is why He shoulders the blame. 

Interesting as mmen throughout Christian history have blamed women for 'tempting them' ,and have done unspeakable things to puish them .   Thank you for the clear explanations .

[Guest Thallasa]

13 hours ago, RobertS said:

That fault is man's, not scripture's. Denominations are fences built around the long-cold fires of where the Holy Spirit once alighted. As far as Freemasonry goes, that is not Christian. As a former Catholic, I've seen the flaws and faults in the RCC, and I've also seen flaws in Protestantism. But Scripture never denotes a bunch of different denominations; there has only ever been the way God has called people by, and while the different Dispensations have varied in how God has handled that, one constant has always been the coming of the Messiah, NOT the "Messiah's mother".

Also: the "Holy Spirit" denoting wincam's theology? The Holy Spirit is not going to contradict what has already been spoke in Scripture, as the Spirit is the Breath of God, and Jesus is the Word of God. Scripture clearly states there is one mediator between God and man, and that is Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5); it also clearly states that God so loved the world, He sent His only begotten Son (John 3:16), not "The Son and His mother on Earth". We do not make doctrine on what Scripture does not say.

On that note: "The word of God as I call it"? With all due respect Thallasa, what do you call it?

ALL of scripture is God breathed (2 TImothy 3:16), not just the parts that we like, or those parts that support our positions. Peter recognized Paul's writings as scripture, (2 Peter 3:16), Jesus said that David "spoke by the Holy Spirit" (Mark 12:36), as well as stating:

"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you." (John 14:26, NASB)
---------------------------------

Now onto the subject proper: the final "death knell" for Mary being the supposed "co-redeemer" comes from Mary's own words in what is called the Magnificat:

"And Mary said: “My soul exalts the Lord, And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. For He has had regard for the humble state of His bondslave; For behold, from this time on all generations will count me blessed. For the Mighty One has done great things for me; And holy is His name." (Luke 1:46-49, NASB, emphasis mine)

If Mary were "sinless", then why would she be calling God "my Savior"? She also denotes she would be blessed because the "Mighty One has done great things in me"; this is recognition of who God is and Mary is not, not a proclamation of how deserving she is to be "co-redemptrix". The fact that Mary herself said she needed a savior removes her from any possibility of redeeming anyone...

 

Mary was a sinner, just like the rest of us.

 

The problem begins with Pope Pius IX's Ineffabilis Deus in 1854, where he claimed in "dogma": the immaculate conception of Mary, supposedly preserving her from" inheriting original sin". As much as Pope Pius IX may have wanted that to be true, his proclamation of Mary's "sinlessness" contradicts her own words in scripture, Paul's words in Romans 3;23 that " For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God", Ecclesiates 7:20, which tells us " Indeed, there is not a righteous man on earth who continually does good and who never sins.", or Job 15:14, which says " What is man, that he should be pure, Or he who is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?".

It then becomes a battle of who we are to believe: God's written word (OT and NT alike), or the words of men that contradict it? We cannot have the Holy Spirit supporting both, as God does not lie nor is there any shadow of turning in Him.

 

But as far as the "Holy Spirit" telling anyone something that contradicts scripture: that was NOT the Holy Spirit of God.
 

 

 

 

 I think you misunderstand as I do not hold the line that Mary is in anyway co -redeemer etc. ,but that certain protestants have gone to the other extreme ,and been downright hateful towards her . This comes in part from the false idea that Eve (a woman ) was responsible for the 'the fall' . Women have been treated badly throughout Christianism ,generally  worse than in Judaism .  As for Mary needing a Saviour ,  where did I say she did not ,but I did say that God Himself could have purified her before birth ,in order to give birth to Jesus . 

The Holy Spirit tells me to treat her with love and great respect ,and I will continue to do so . I also said that in countries where Mary is treated badly the society is colder ,more materialistic , and perverted .

You all have your idols from Sports stars ,to film stars ,riches ,beauty ,television ,but there is more balance and caring in those societies where Mary is honoured '.   So if she is a 'star' in these societies ,better that, than some of the rubbish you have as 'stars . I do believe that the fruits of a society can be seen by what they care about most, and many  Brits and others go to Spain because it is healthier both morally and generally, for families  and has a better kinder way of living .

 

[Guest Robert]

1) That's why I drew a line between my reply to you, and the OP in general. I was not trying to say you believed in Mary having "immaculate conception". I apologize for the confusion, as I thought the line would demarcate this appropriately.

2) If you mean "you" as in my country, that would be correct; there are far too many idols here in the United States, and that hurts society tremendously as it puts God in a place other than where he belongs: FIRST. As for myself and my family, we do not have any idols, as we do not watch television, most movies or participate in any "pop culture".

[ayin jade]

48 minutes ago, Thallasa said:

... but there is more balance and caring in those societies where Mary is honoured '.   So if she is a 'star' in these societies ,better that, than some of the rubbish you have as 'stars . I do believe that the fruits of a society can be seen by what they care about most, and many  Brits and others go to Spain because it is healthier both morally and generally, for families  and has a better kinder way of living .

 

Nonsense. Mexico "honors" mary but currently commits genocide with the local indians, and kills thousands each year (I read an article just today that the mexican police executed 22 people and tried to cover it up) not to mention the drug cartels that are rampant there with kidnappings etc. A morally acceptable (to mexican society) is "rapto" (I may be misspelling it) where a man can kidnap a woman or child he wishes to have sex with. Abuse of women is common in mexican culture. So pray tell, how is it a morally better society for its obsession with mary?

[Flsnookman]

7 minutes ago, ayin jade said:

Nonsense. Mexico "honors" mary but currently commits genocide with the local indians, and kills thousands each year (I read an article just today that the mexican police executed 22 people and tried to cover it up) not to mention the drug cartels that are rampant there with kidnappings etc. A morally acceptable (to mexican society) is "rapto" (I may be misspelling it) where a man can kidnap a woman or child he wishes to have sex with. Abuse of women is common in mexican culture. So pray tell, how is it a morally better society for its obsession with mary?

Uh, if you are American you may want to ease up on the whole genocide with the local indians thing...just sayin.