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Comments on soap box debate with Butero and Shiloh


enoob57

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The debate thus far is burdened upon Butero to produce Biblical evidence that sin is a created
essence from God... Shiloh has taken Him to the depth of Scripture where God reports satan
was created perfect until iniquity was found within him... Butero outside of Scripture by human
reasoning says if God knew a thing would occur and created anyway God is responsible for that
occurrence -but- it must be established by Scripture to be so and not by our own reasoning
abilities so the onus is upon Butero to provide Scriptural support... I have already been here and
know there is none- this is how:
We are commanded by God "give no place"

Eph 4:23-27
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. 25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. 26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: 27 Neither give place to the devil. KJV

Note in this verse above we are given the ability to renew our minds from the perversion of sin
and once again we are enabled to right thinking... A place where the devil in his perversion has
no place in the creation and we are commanded to make sure of that - why?

Rev 20:11
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
KJV

Because there is no place as God did not create anything for this neither in Heaven nor in earth...
thus all of creation flees from anything to do with sin in the judgement and the eternal
>separated out from God< except for His wrath is why we are to give no place now because the
end declares this (the eternal state of our future with God will be thus just as the eternal past
is as thus..
Matt 25:41
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Rev 20:10
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
KJV

Possibly unbeknownst to Butero he is giving place to the devil by human reasoning...
Love, Steven

 

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Isaiah 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

enoob57 doesn't that verse seem to say God did indeed create evil?

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20 minutes ago, Flsnookman said:

Isaiah 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

enoob57 doesn't that verse seem to say God did indeed create evil?

That was answered adequately in the setting of hermeneutic context ... whereby we must understand original language to decipher the writers original intent within the Hebrew colloquialism .... what most people error in study of Scripture is to bring forward intent of original dialogue so as to frame the proper hermeneutic in written frame work! When God in judgement of original sin

Gen 3:14-19

14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
KJV

this is the evil God speaks of in creating... it is cause and effect outside of the original intent in original creation! Calamity: natural disaster, sickness, death, birth defects, etc... Curse is judgement a created essence with a profound boundary

Matt 25:41

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
KJV

and it was so that we might understand the horror of turning from the eternal righteousness to sin...
Love, Steven

 

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42 minutes ago, Flsnookman said:

I think that we like God are triune beings. God is God the Father, Jesus and The Holy Spirit, we are flesh,soul and spirit. I think that's what it means when it says we are created in God's image.

There is more reasoning here to do... of infinite ways and realities that exist lies in our God so there was infinite ways in which God could have created... It pleased God to start us in that which He has but we error in thinking it was the only way! There is an eternity past where the perfect 'IN SPIRIT' exists created essence is reflecting God's Pleasure not necessity... nor
necessary design as the New Heaven and New Earth after final judgement dictates we are unable to even think how it will be is the truth that I speak of

1 Cor 2:9-10

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
KJV

We know not knowing but by faith we are translated to give up all that we have began in to obtain that which we can't even know right now!
Love, Steven

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19 hours ago, Behold said:

God Creates, Man recreates.

God manifests it, Man reproduces it.

 

Not according to the Scripture I just quoted. Now, if you are saying that GOD's Word contradicts itself later than Genesis, than there is a problem.

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6 minutes ago, Rick_Parker said:

Not according to the Scripture I just quoted. Now, if you are saying that GOD's Word contradicts itself later than Genesis, than there is a problem.

God spoke = it all began.

Jesus is the "Word", who created it all.........as a matter of fact.... John 1:3 & 10 tells you that the incarnate Word stood on the WORLD (earth) that =  JESUS Created.

If you look at Colossians 1:17, you'll note that this explains CREATION, as God by the WORD who IS JESUS, SPOKE (Word)  all things to come to pass.

As i said, God through (Jesus the Word)  Creates, and man recreates.

Just read your NT...its all  right there

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I have read the Bible, all of it many times. I'll say it again, as you put it but correctly.....GOD creates, man recreates in his own image (or imagination for material things.) I'll say no more.

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7 minutes ago, Rick_Parker said:

I have read the Bible, all of it many times. I'll say it again, as you put it but correctly.....GOD creates, man recreates in his own image (or imagination for material things.) I'll say no more.

When 2 create a child, is this for "imagination for material things"?

So, can you write something that actually makes sense?

This would be very helpful, if you could.

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14 hours ago, enoob57 said:

There is more reasoning here to do... of infinite ways and realities that exist lies in our God so there was infinite ways in which God could have created... It pleased God to start us in that which He has but we error in thinking it was the only way! There is an eternity past where the perfect 'IN SPIRIT' exists created essence is reflecting God's Pleasure not necessity... nor
necessary design as the New Heaven and New Earth after final judgement dictates we are unable to even think how it will be is the truth that I speak of

1 Cor 2:9-10

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
KJV

We know not knowing but by faith we are translated to give up all that we have began in to obtain that which we can't even know right now!
Love, Steven

So may I ask how is what you so eloquently say any different? You do not want to accept the Word at face value when it disagrees with you (response 1) but you will quickly quote it when you think it agrees with what you believe. I would say all of us do this to one extant or another. I would also say that it is ok as we each have our own walk with God and the Holy Spirit teaches us not what we think we should know but rather what God thinks we should know.  I think the danger for any of us comes when we "think" we know so much that we can no longer be taught. That said I do appreciate your views even though we may disagree.

Edited by Flsnookman
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1 hour ago, Behold said:

When 2 create a child, is this for "imagination for material things"?

So, can you write something that actually makes sense?

This would be very helpful, if you could.

When I say "material things," I mean not human things. Material things are things like cars......Are you just looking to argue or do you not know what material things are? GOD didn't actually make the car, that was from man's imagination, although GOD did give us the knowledge. Get it now?

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