excuses

[Running Gator]

26 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

No, it's just showing how meaningless those excuses are. It shows how people will make excuses to avoid anything that is unimportant to them.  If it can help people who attend church to see how empty those excuses are, they will not follow the example of those who make those excuses to justify themselves.

One does not need an excuse to not go to church, there is not Biblical requirement to attend an American style church service, that is just a made up thing to control the masses.   Church in America has become a means of control and that seems to be its main focus, vice saving souls.  Do this, don't do that, be here when we tell you or we will guilt you into coming.   Pastor's carve out little fiefdoms and become more than they are supposed to be, and in the end it is all about control and not Jesus. 

[Guest shiloh357]

7 minutes ago, Out of the Shadows said:

One does not need an excuse to not go to church, there is not Biblical requirement to attend an American style church service, that is just a made up thing to control the masses.  

Yeah, that is a lot of paranoid nonsense.  Again, just another empty excuse. If that's just another aspect of your relationship with God that you are willing to sacrifice, that's up to you.  If you don't need an excuse then don't make one like claiming it all controlling people.  Just don't go to church  and be honest that it is not important to you and you don't want it in your life.

Quote

Church in America has become a means of control and that seems to be its main focus, vice saving souls.  Do this, don't do that, be here when we tell you or we will guilt you into coming.   Pastor's carve out little fiefdoms and become more than they are supposed to be, and in the end it is all about control and not Jesus. 

again, just more nonsense.  Just another excuse.  And not going to church isn't about Jesus.  Don't pretend that you avoid church because of Jesus. 

[Running Gator]

1 minute ago, shiloh357 said:

Yeah, that is a lot of paranoid nonsense.  Again, just another empty excuse. If that's just another aspect of your relationship with God that you are willing to sacrifice, that's up to you.  If you don't need an excuse then don't make one like claiming it all controlling people.  Just don't go to church  and be honest that it is not important to you and you don't want it in your life.

again, just more nonsense.  Just another excuse.  And not going to church isn't about Jesus.  Don't pretend that you avoid church because of Jesus. 

Not going to church is not sacrificing any aspect of my relationship with God, it is only sacrificing my relationship to people who want to tell me what to watch, what to drink (or not drink), what to wear, what sort of job to have, when to be somewhere and more. 

[Guest shiloh357]

2 minutes ago, Out of the Shadows said:

Not going to church is not sacrificing any aspect of my relationship with God,

Of course it is.  If you loved Him, you would be there for Him and it wouldn't matter what anyone else was there for.

Quote

it is only sacrificing my relationship to people who want to tell me what to watch, what to drink (or not drink), what to wear, what sort of job to have, when to be somewhere and more. 

That is pure baloney.  I have always gone to very conservative churches and no one ever did that.  Sorry, but there is no need to make up stories.  If you don't want to go, then don't go.  That's up to you, but don't blame us because we don't affirm your habits/lifestyle.

[Running Gator]

51 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Of course it is.  If you loved Him, you would be there for Him and it wouldn't matter what anyone else was there for.

 

This is the lie perpetuated by the church, making a correlation between loving God and showing up at some building at some specific time for some specific service.  I wonder why they would make up such a lie, I am sure it has nothing to do control.  

Here is a news flash, God is not in that building anymore than He is in my house.  I don't need some predetermined number of songs followed by empty prayers followed by a sermon limited to a specific amount of time to show that I love God. 

My wife and I can go out to the national park, sit under the trees and read our bible and discuss it and show God how much we love Him.  

[PatrolMan]

11 hours ago, Jayne said:

I mean no disrespect to you, but you should try reading the passages of the Bible where this comes from.

Paul, in 1 Corinthians 11 says that women may both pray and prophecy in church.

In chapter 14, he lists THREE groups of people who are to "keep silent" - and that chapter is about chaos in the worship service, not a blanket statement about all women.

Paul says:

1. Only two or three people may speak in tongues and if there is no interpreter, those speaking in tongues must "keep silent"
2. Only two or three people may prophecy and if someone gets a word of prophecy, the one already speaking must "keep silent"
3. Wives are to "keep silent" and ask any questions about the services of their husbands at home

There is no directive in the Bible for all women to be totally silent in church nor any directive that says a women cannot bring a problem to a man's attention. 

My own pastor - years ago - denied the women of the church a women's prayer/bible study.  The men had a monthly time of fellowship/prayer groups/Bible study with men and we craved to pray together and read God's Word together as women.

He told us we could not because women were just a bunch of gossips and it would turn into a big gossip session.

Women at my church were broken to hear him say that to us.  One of the older and much wiser women of our church came to me (I was about 32 at the time) and asked if I would go privately  with her to his office and talk to him about this.  We did.  We did not "rebuke" him, but we explained our desire for women's prayer and Bible study.  He relented, but never apologized for the insulting remarks.

And we did not and do not hold it against him.  He has changed much over the past two decades.  I cannot imagine someone teaching that we had no Biblical right to address this with him in church.

As a minister I can assure you that I have read these passages many many time and have preached on them. If this is your interpretation then that's fine. We all have our back grounds that we came from. I am 74 years old and was taught God's word and ways long before the politically correct teaching came. This is the nice thing about this site. We can learn what other think and see or hear other opinions which I do with all respect. Have a nice day.

[Jayne]

8 minutes ago, PatrolMan said:

As a minister I can assure you that I have read these passages many many time and have preached on them. If this is your interpretation then that's fine. We all have our back grounds that we came from. I am 74 years old and was taught God's word and ways long before the politically correct teaching came. This is the nice thing about this site. We can learn what other think and see or hear other opinions which I do with all respect. Have a nice day.

Where did I give my "interpretation" or state any political correctness?

I simply cited what Paul said about silence.  Good day.

[Flsnookman]

11 hours ago, Jayne said:

I mean no disrespect to you, but you should try reading the passages of the Bible where this comes from.

Paul, in 1 Corinthians 11 says that women may both pray and prophecy in church.

In chapter 14, he lists THREE groups of people who are to "keep silent" - and that chapter is about chaos in the worship service, not a blanket statement about all women.

Paul says:

1. Only two or three people may speak in tongues and if there is no interpreter, those speaking in tongues must "keep silent"
2. Only two or three people may prophecy and if someone gets a word of prophecy, the one already speaking must "keep silent"
3. Wives are to "keep silent" and ask any questions about the services of their husbands at home

There is no directive in the Bible for all women to be totally silent in church nor any directive that says a women cannot bring a problem to a man's attention. 

My own pastor - years ago - denied the women of the church a women's prayer/bible study.  The men had a monthly time of fellowship/prayer groups/Bible study with men and we craved to pray together and read God's Word together as women.

He told us we could not because women were just a bunch of gossips and it would turn into a big gossip session.

Women at my church were broken to hear him say that to us.  One of the older and much wiser women of our church came to me (I was about 32 at the time) and asked if I would go privately  with her to his office and talk to him about this.  We did.  We did not "rebuke" him, but we explained our desire for women's prayer and Bible study.  He relented, but never apologized for the insulting remarks.

And we did not and do not hold it against him.  He has changed much over the past two decades.  I cannot imagine someone teaching that we had no Biblical right to address this with him in church.

I think it might help to remember that a minister is still a human. Though they may be lead by God they still make mistakes and still must deal with issues like pride. Any time I hear a pastor say "I know it all and i'm right and that's it" I immediately discount anything that pastor says. 

We make a grave mistake when we rely on a pastor or church or minister for salvation, only Jesus saves. Anytime a church leader becomes convinced that they and only they can correctly understand God's Word that church has become a cult.

I think attending church is wonderful and biblical, and it helps us grow in our faith. 

 

Edited August 23, 2016 by Flsnookman

[Guest shiloh357]

34 minutes ago, Out of the Shadows said:

This is the lie perpetuated by the church, making a correlation between loving God and showing up at some building at some specific time for some specific service.  I wonder why they would make up such a lie, I am sure it has nothing to do control.  

Here is a news flash, God is not in that building anymore than He is in my house.  I don't need some predetermined number of songs followed by empty prayers followed by a sermon limited to a specific amount of time to show that I love God. 

My wife and I can go out to the national park, sit under the trees and read our bible and discuss it and show God how much we love Him.  

Yes, I have heard that excuse and I don't buy it.  It demonstrates a fundamental error of understanding regarding what the Church is.   Church isn't an event or a building or a service.  It is a community and you cannot be in community with trees.  It's not a solo thing.  It's not about a service.  We go to church to be in community and to be the Church.    Jesus said that upon the rock of Peter's confession, that he would build His community fully expecting His followers to participate in the community and participate in the mission of the community that Christ commissioned us to.

Most of the time, when you know you are living outside the will of God and you know it, the last place you want to be is around other believers.  It's called, being under conviction.

[LadyKay]

12 hours ago, PatrolMan said:

I reference (1 Corinthians 14:34) I mean no disrespect to women in any way. The bible or God's word says that women are be silent in church. Have a nice one

Oh so you left because the church allowed women to talk? Well good luck to you trying to find a church where women aren't allowed to talk. I really do not know of any.  I also mean no disrespect. It is just that some of the believes on this message form are so different from mine that I find them fascinating in a way and I like to hear about them.