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If Jesus said they will know us by our love for one another, then why...?


nebula

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Growing up, I learned from many preachers and teachers who focused on sins to avoid, how to live properly, what good behavior to live by.

Engaging in discussions with Christians over the years, whenever grace is taught there are many Christians who rebut with the importance and value of not sinning.

Even her on the forum,there seems to be an obsession with rules and order and avoiding sin and living a good and wholesome life.

 

Yet Jesus said, "By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another." (John 13:35)

 

So why are we more obsessed with avoiding sin than we are with learning about how and encouraging each other to love one another?

Isn't that what God's idea of godliness is about?

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Guest shiloh357

I guess it really depends on how a person defines "sin."  Because you have people who define sin in terms of what you wear, what you eat, how much perfume you wear and so on.  Those tend to be the most unloving, unhappy people I have ever seen.

But when it comes to avoiding sin, the kind of sin the Bible speaks of, I am not sure how a person can be "obsessed" with that.  The more I avoid sin, the more I will walk in love with you.  If  I am avoiding sin, I will not embarrass you, lie about you, abuse you, gossip about you, or mistreat you in any way.  

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15 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

I guess it really depends on how a person defines "sin."  Because you have people who define sin in terms of what you wear, what you eat, how much perfume you wear and so on.  Those tend to be the most unloving, unhappy people I have ever seen.

True, but have you ever heard one of them talk about loving each other - other than, "It's loving to snatch people away from sin."?

 

Quote

But when it comes to avoiding sin, the kind of sin the Bible speaks of, I am not sure how a person can be "obsessed" with that.  The more I avoid sin, the more I will walk in love with you.  If  I am avoiding sin, I will not embarrass you, lie about you, abuse you, gossip about you, or mistreat you in any way.  

I've heard a lot more preaching and teaching against sexual immorality and drunkenness and the like that I have instruction on what constitutes gossip and how to avoid getting suckered into it.

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24 minutes ago, Butero said:

I find the people that teach about love all the time being unbalanced in the other direction. 

There's only an unbalance if they are misconstruing what love is.

 

Quote

Jesus repeatedly told people to go and sin no more.  Does that mean he was obsessed with sin?

Correction: He spoke that to only a handful of people, and that was because the situation warranted it (i.e. speaking to a repentant prostitute and an adultress).

He never said that to "the woman at the well," Zacchaeus the tax collector, Peter, etc. (other people who committed a sin that brought attention).

 

Quote

 

 Did you ever read what Jesus told his disciples in John 15:14?

Ye are my friends, IF YE DO WHATSOEVER I COMMAND YOU. 

You want to be a friend of Jesus, do what he commands us to do.  Why did he tell us love is the great commandment?  Because all the laws come under the topic of love.  If we love God with all our heart and our neighbor as ourselves, we won't do things sinful against either one of them.  Simple.  It doesn't mean simply going around patting everyone on the back and saying it is alright, even if they are living like the devil.  It means don't sin against them.  Don't sin against God.  That is how you show love.

 

How about love being more about what you do for someone rather than what you not do to someone?

Do you want someone's love for you being defined by what they don't do rather than what they do? 

 

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On 8/23/2016 at 1:11 AM, nebula said:

Growing up, I learned from many preachers and teachers who focused on sins to avoid, how to live properly, what good behavior to live by.

Engaging in discussions with Christians over the years, whenever grace is taught there are many Christians who rebut with the importance and value of not sinning.

Even her on the forum,there seems to be an obsession with rules and order and avoiding sin and living a good and wholesome life.

 

Yet Jesus said, "By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another." (John 13:35)

 

So why are we more obsessed with avoiding sin than we are with learning about how and encouraging each other to love one another?

Isn't that what God's idea of godliness is about?

They are both important. They will know them by their fruit Matthew 7:15-20. We as Christians should not sin deliberately. We know what the Bible tells us how we should live. But we as born again believers sin everyday without even knowing it. Yes, the Bible says we are to love one another. We don't see a lot of that here do we? We are living in the end times look around you. That does not surprise me that this is happening.

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2 hours ago, Butero said:

Jesus told one man to go and sin no more....
less something worse come upon him than the thing he was just healed of....

Jesus spoke about sin....

John the Baptist spoke about sin, and told the religious crowd to come back when they showed good fruit....Paul gave more than one list of sinful behavior that will keep us out of heaven....

I think I am in good company believing we should come against sin....

Ecclesiastes says the whole duty of man is to fear God and keep his commandments....
The modern church teaches us to do neither....

God has become our daddy and we are told that to keep commandments is to be legalistic....
I am not buying into any of it....

:emot-heartbeat:

Mishpachah~! (Family)

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. John 3:7

Abba

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Romans 8:15

Daddy

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Galatians 4:6

:thumbsup:

Sin Will Kill A Fellow

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23

But Love

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

Saves

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:16-18

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

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Guest bonnieschamberger

God is faithful to change us from glory to glory,He is faithful to finish what He started and guess what it all begins with Him loving us and loving on us.I know I have not read the entire bible yet but I do know that the change in me took years and it was because He was loving me first and He was the first and only person to ever love me that way and it so moved my heart to respond to Him.Felt more like a natural thing.Im sorry I dont have scripture to quote.

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Guest bonnieschamberger
Just now, Butero said:

Don't worry about not having scriptures to quote.  That is a wonderful testimony. 

thank you I was very nervous about typing it :unsure: :)

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Guest bonnieschamberger
Just now, Butero said:

I am glad you did.  It is nice to meet you.  Welcome to Worthy Forums. 

thank you its nice to meet you too!:)

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1 hour ago, Butero said:

1 Peter 1:17  And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of person judgeth according to every man's work, PASS THE TIME OF YOUR SOJOURNING HERE IN FEAR.

1 Peter 2:17  Honour all men.  Love the brotherhood.  FEAR GOD.  Honour the king. 

Philippians 2:12  Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING. 

PSALM 111:10  THE FEAR OF THE LORD IS THE BEGINNING OF WISDOM:  a good understanding have all they that do his commandments:  his praise endureth for ever.

ECCLESIASTES 12:13,14  Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter:  FEAR GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS:  For this is the whole duty of man.  For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil. 

The modern church is teaching people not to fear God.  They have a very unbalanced "love" message that is not Biblical.  People come in here and ask why some still insist on preaching about the fear of God and keeping his commandments.  That is because there are scriptures they are ignoring that tell us to do just that. 

:thumbsup:

John Some Who Should Know Better,

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 John 1:5-10 (King James Bible)

Scourge

Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Hebrews 4:14-18 (King James Bible)

The Little 

So you have not received a spirit that makes you fearful slaves. Instead, you received God's Spirit when he adopted you as his own children. Now we call him, "Abba, Father." Romans 8:15 (New Living Translation)

Ones

As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us. Psalms 3:12 (King James Bible)

:emot-heartbeat:

A

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:17-20 (New International Version)

Balanced 

He saved us-- not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy -- through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit. Titus 3:5 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)

View

Now we know that whatever the Law says, it says to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. no one will be justified in His sight by works of the Law. For the Law merely brings awareness of sin.

But now, apart from the Law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, as attested by the Law and the Prophets. And this righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no distinction, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

God presented Him as an atoning sacrifice through faith in His blood, in order to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance He had passed over the sins committed beforehand. He did this to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so as to be just and to justify the one who has faith in Jesus.

Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of works? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Romans 3:19-27 (Berean Study Bible)

~

Be Blessed

Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16 (King James Bible)

Beloved Of The KING

Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. Revelation 3:12 (King James Bible)

Love, Your Brother Joe

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