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If Jesus said they will know us by our love for one another, then why...?


nebula

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5 hours ago, Butero said:

I would rather it be what they don't do to me.  I have had someone rob me.  I would rather they had shown love by not doing that, rather than having someone come up and patting me on the back and saying "I love you brother."  Crazy hugh?  I would imagine a friend of mine would prefer I didn't mess with his wife, more than he would want me telling him how great he is and that I really love and appreciate him. 

Jesus told one man to go and sin no more, less something worse come upon him than the thing he was just healed of.  Jesus spoke about sin.  John the Baptist spoke about sin, and told the religious crowd to come back when they showed good fruit.  Paul gave more than one list of sinful behavior that will keep us out of heaven.  I think I am in good company believing we should come against sin.  Ecclesiastes says the whole duty of man is to fear God and keep his commandments.  The modern church teaches us to do neither.  God has become our daddy and we are told that to keep commandments is to be legalistic.  I am not buying into any of it. 

I recently heard someone express pain over the fact that her atheist and agnostic friends were offering her more comfort, support, and help through here chronic illness than the people in her church were. Do you believe she is feeling loved by the brethren in her church?

Did/do you feel loved by your parents because of the things they didn't do to you more than what they did/do for you?

Do you feel loved by your wife because of what she doesn't do more than for what she does for you?

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2 hours ago, bonnieschamberger said:

God is faithful to change us from glory to glory,He is faithful to finish what He started and guess what it all begins with Him loving us and loving on us.I know I have not read the entire bible yet but I do know that the change in me took years and it was because He was loving me first and He was the first and only person to ever love me that way and it so moved my heart to respond to Him.Felt more like a natural thing.Im sorry I dont have scripture to quote.

:wub:

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11 hours ago, bonnieschamberger said:

God is faithful to change us from glory to glory,He is faithful to finish what He started and guess what it all begins with Him loving us and loving on us.I know I have not read the entire bible yet but I do know that the change in me took years and it was because He was loving me first and He was the first and only person to ever love me that way and it so moved my heart to respond to Him.Felt more like a natural thing.Im sorry I dont have scripture to quote.

2 Corinthians  3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory,even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Philippians 1:6 

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
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On 8/23/2016 at 4:11 AM, nebula said:

Even her on the forum,there seems to be an obsession with rules and order and avoiding sin and living a good and wholesome life.

 

Many times I post questions and topics on this forum in order to get a good discussion or debate going. I feel that that is what these forums are for. Doing that helps me to learn what others believe and why; and also makes me take a good look at my own believes and why I believe as I do.  Out in the real world I try to live a life that shows love to my fellow human. I try to help anyone I can if I am able to help. I don't go around debating people in the real world unless a situation comes up where I am expected to do so.  But mostly I try to life a live of love.

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On 8/23/2016 at 2:11 AM, nebula said:

Isn't that what God's idea of godliness is about?

Godliness consists of BOTH hating sin and loving righteousness and others. There must always be a proper balance. Christ loved every sinner, but spoke out against sin also.

Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. (Heb 1:9).

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On 8/23/2016 at 7:39 PM, nebula said:
On 8/23/2016 at 4:31 AM, shiloh357 said:

I guess it really depends on how a person defines "sin."  Because you have people who define sin in terms of what you wear, what you eat, how much perfume you wear and so on.  Those tend to be the most unloving, unhappy people I have ever seen.

But when it comes to avoiding sin, the kind of sin the Bible speaks of, I am not sure how a person can be "obsessed" with that.  The more I avoid sin, the more I will walk in love with you.  If  I am avoiding sin, I will not embarrass you, lie about you, abuse you, gossip about you, or mistreat you in any way.  

I agree shiloh, people who judge those around them my what they wear or anything that has to do with the outside I believe are very unhappy.  I know a woman who so hates my church she screams at me about all the things we do wrong. (I go to Calvary Chapel)  she hates the music, what our pastor preaches.  She is  very much in  a cult, at least her church is.  She is very judgmental and takes one scripture to make a point that is so off the wall and refuses to read anything in the Bible that I suggest she read  her answer to me ?  Why should I read anything you suggest? 

Yet when I ask her how she is doing her answer is basically her life is horrible.  I have never see someone so unhappy yet profess that she knows Jesus.  

I believe what you are saying shiloh is You will know them by their fruits.

Blessings, RustyAngel

 

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19 hours ago, Butero said:

we are told that to keep commandments is to be legalistic.  

Actually, that is a wrong interpretation.

What you are not understanding is WHY a Christian tries not to sin..., and should live a Holy Life, and should present our bodies a living sacrifice, ...

The issue isnt "living right" that you have misunderstood.... as No Believer that is born again is going to try to license someone to sin... BUT, where the theological "stink" begins.... is..... when a person believes that after they are saved, they are to keep themselves saved by "keeping commandments" or "doing good works" or making sure their faith is not dead....and all this STUFF..... to DO...

So, what happens is......someone says...."nope, you cant go to hell after you are saved", and then someone else misinterprets this as....."oh i see, you are saying we can do anything and be saved"..

And RIGHT THERE is the melt down.....RIGHT THERE is the head butting issue regarding 2 types of people that say they are saved.........1st) you have those that have understood that The Blood Atonement is not temporary and cant be undone by horrible behavior.......then you have door #2 Christianity which teaches and believes that The Blood Atonement is not a sure thing, but rather is only as good as the person's behavior......and that person,= is a legalist......That person is not truly and completely  trusting Christ to SAVE them, but they are trusting in themselves, based on their lifestyle of "obedience" or "commandment keeping" to SAVE THEMSELVES......So, that person, ....every time they hear about "GRACE" as a completed situation entitled SALVATION, they will resist Grace and resist OSAS, because to them, Salvation is not a finished Blood Atonement whereby God accepts us ONLY because of what Jesus did.....no no no....thats not quite enough for them, as they need to be a self righteous part of the salvation process, BECAUSE in their mind and in their theology the Cross gets it started but THEY finish their own salvation by their commandment keeping, enduring to the end,  and 100 other things (James works) they feel they must DO that somehow finishes what the Blood Atonement started.

= Legalism.

A Legalist isnt a Christ rejector, but rather they are a GRACE Rejector, and Paul defines them as "fallen from GRACE".. 

 

Edited by Behold
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3 hours ago, LadyKay said:

Many times I post questions and topics on this forum in order to get a good discussion or debate going....
I feel that that is what these forums are for....

:emot-heartbeat:

Grown Up Stuff

Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend. Proverbs 27:17

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Guest shiloh357
On 8/23/2016 at 7:39 PM, nebula said:

True, but have you ever heard one of them talk about loving each other - other than, "It's loving to snatch people away from sin."?

I have never heard religious people speak of love at all.  And by religious people, I mean people who are overly concerned with hair and make up and clothing and perfume and jewelry and owning a Television and all of that stuff.  if you don't follow their rules, they will have nothing to do with you.

Quote

I've heard a lot more preaching and teaching against sexual immorality and drunkenness and the like that I have instruction on what constitutes gossip and how to avoid getting suckered into it.

Do you think if they preached on gossip that it would change anything? Preachers preach on the moral decline of our nation all of the time and  how that is working?

Sometimes, in fact  a lot of the time, it had less to do with the preachers and more to do with the spiritual maturity of the average Christian. Do you think that the average Christian doesn't already know that gossip is wrong?  Sure they do.  But they don't care. All the preaching in the world can't fix that.  It takes a  work of the Holy Spirit on the heart of a person to change them.

You don't build large churches speaking out against sin, I will say.   Most people don't choose a church based on doctrinal purity.   And it shows.  Fewer and fewer Christians read their Bibles,  fewer and fewer see the Bible as God's inspired word to man.   Fewer and fewer believe that Jesus is the only way to God.    The Bible is becoming more and more irrelevant even to those who claim to be believers.  I can post all of the relevant info about that if you like.

So the problems you mention in the OP shouldn't come as too much of a surprise.

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Gal 5:16  AMP But I say, walk and live [habitually] in the [Holy] Spirit [responsive to and controlled and guided by the Spirit]; then you will certainly not gratify the cravings and desires of the flesh (of human nature--).  Gal 5:17  For the desires of the flesh are opposed to the [Holy] Spirit, and the [desires of the] Spirit are opposed to the flesh (godless human nature); for these are antagonistic to each other [continually withstanding and in conflict with each other], so that you are not free but are prevented from doing what you desire to do.  Gal 5:18  But if you are guided (led) by the [Holy] Spirit, you are not subject to the Law.

Rom 7:18  For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot perform it. [I have the intention and urge to do what is right, but no power to carry it out.]  Rom 7:19  For I fail to practice the good deeds I desire to do, but the evil deeds that I do not desire to do are what I am [ever] doing.

Rom 7:23  But I discern in my bodily members [in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh] a different law (rule of action) at war against the law of my mind (my reason) and making me a prisoner to the law of sin that dwells in my bodily organs [in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh].  Rom 7:24  O unhappy and pitiable and wretched man that I am! Who will release and deliver me from [the shackles of] this body of death?  Rom 7:25  O thank God! [He will!] through Jesus Christ (the Anointed One) our Lord! So then indeed I, of myself with the mind and heart, serve the Law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

Rom 8:1  THEREFORE, [there is] now no condemnation (no adjudging guilty of wrong) for those who are in Christ Jesus, who live [and] walk not after the dictates of the flesh, but after the dictates of the Spirit. [Joh 3:18]  Rom 8:2  For the law of the Spirit of life [which is] in Christ Jesus [the law of our new being] has freed me from the law of sin and of death.  Rom 8:3 ESV  For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,  Rom 8:4  in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.   Rom 8:5  For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.

So, the answer to it all is to set our minds on the things of God and live according to the leading of the Holy Spirit.  We live and walk according to the law of love.  That is how we avoid all the "don'ts".  We focus on Christ and doing --on loving those He sets before us and serving them in love.  Yes we are human and often fail.  But as many times as I have posted this on Worthy, it seems that people just don't get it.  When we focus on the stuff we shouldn't do we end up doing it and walking in the flesh.  When we focus on Christ and the things of the Spirit we are filled with His love for others and His desire to meet their needs.  We can't live the Christian life focusing on sin and evil.  We can only do it when focusing on Christ and allowing His love to flow through us to others.

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