What do you guys think?

[Willtysn89]

So iv'e been pondering this for a while now, ive already worked out that out of all the faiths Christianity is the one that fits the model best in terms of how the universe was created, amongst the other faiths. But now standing against science and fictional speculation I came up with this which I also think might have just beaten science by a fraction, but still these findings are interesting.

Please let me know what you think guys!

 

If free will is an illusion then why is it that we were designed to be aware one day that it could be a possibility?

And if free will isn't deterministic then who is making the desicions? Who is in control? The illision itself wouldn't work without the
awareness being there to interpret it. So if there is only determinism then the illision needs to be there for us to be ignorant of it.

Which means determinism cannot exsist with us being aware of it or being illuded by it, because awareness cannot exist without the illision.
And subsequently if the illision was vital for us as humans to keep out sanity intact, why is it that we were programed with the ability to evolve
to the point where we can cognize the possibility for this entire consideration in the first place.

By this deduction is it correct to then infer that freewill is something that we have as a matter of fact rather than an illusion concocted by
chemicals in our brain? For if that were the case wouldn't we be like mindless entities, like characters in a videogame that only needs code to run
on without awareness? This says to me that freewill and awareness go hand in hand, and are neither deterministic illusions that are only vital for
our survival, but maybe for something more.

Something that all humans can identify with, freedom. All of us have this feeling that we are in some way free, free to think and to speak and to love
and experience the world about us. The closest theory that almost negates all theology is simulation theory, for all we know, right now we could all
be part of a massive digital simulation created by an advanced civilization. And we are all just running on servers serving a purpose for the coders
who made the program.

If thats the case, could they be using religion as a way of seeing how we as humans react to it, which ones we choose? Maybe we could be on a TV show
somewhere, hell maybe even game of thrones became a hit througout the wider reality/dimension that being broacdast by the servers! Its an interesting
thought right, and no matter how you look at it first off, it seems scarily hard to deny that this could be not just possible, but likely above all
others!

In this way I will present two senarios that the coders are working in by the intention of why they created us and what for...

1) We are for their entertainment and everything we experience is just for a huge universal LOL.
2) They are trying to learn about the ancient civilizations of old and if possible see if we end up making a reality within our own just like they did.

In the first theory, if this was the case it would be very hard to tell indeed or refute that such a thing was happening. Something that add weight to
this is the fact that photons of light can move through atoms which breaks the universal law of energy conversion, in that energy cannot be created
or be destroyed. And just like in programming, you find errors and holes and back doors in the software. Wouldn't it be scary if these photons there
part of that which leads to the other side?

It sounds very possible since these photons also move at the speed of light which creates time lag, so if these particles can break that time lag
then they can move and exsit outside of time. Implying that they can be on the other side or at least have something to do with it. However as much as
all of this seems very possible, I would argue that it isn't.

Simply by way of working out the problem of free will, for if we as the program could work out the illusion of free will that kept us from the truth,
then it wouldn't be a stretch to think that we coulc come up with a way to get back at them somehow through the program, as in a sense we would be like
AI on judgement day, coming up through the smaller reality to take place in the larger one that created us.

Now if such an advanced civilization were clever enough way beyong our cognigitve abilities to be able to create such a universe, you'd think that
they would have at least considered security mesures to put in place so that we never had enough 'freewill' or 'awareness' to be able to figure it out,
and whats more we already have figured it out and are already many many scientists across the globe working day and night to figure out the universe
we are living in.

It is possible that the programmers just have another universe that would serve as a barrier between our world and theirs, but whos to stop us from
diconeccting from them and just living in our own universe? Well if we did that it is possible that we would just be switched off and we would be
none the wiser for it, but if both cases were true wouldn't they already be trying to prevent us from working it out.

In the final theory, their experiement could just be a test to see IF we work it out. And if we do what happens then? Do we pass the test and win
a special prize? Maybe they do the oppersite eand just collect the results and switch us of, maybe we will never pass the test and be a failure to
them. However there is something very massive that punches a huge hole in all of this.

Back to free will again, because you cannot really program free will without the context of enviroment first, that is you need to be able to calculate
all the possible choices a person could ever make within the enviromnent they exsit in, which for a super advanced civilization wouldn't be a problem.
There is something striking about this. And thats probability.

Everything has a probability, every single thing we can see has one. To the most likely and the most unusual, there is a number for all of them.
Now the universes probaility is actually very very small, in that mathematically speaking it is very unlikely for a universe like ours to have been
created, and even more so for human life to be here. WHich means that life itself is very uncommon and unique.

Mathematics is the language of nature, and even in another reality maths would be the ruling thing there as it is here. So if this universe we live in
is a computer similation, our calculations would reveal that it was very possible for the universe to have exsisted because another had created it, but
life could have been the variable that was just a very rare occurance.

Now this can't be true since the calculations we have show that both the universe and human life are rare occurances. This says to me that this canot be
a simulated reality by a higher civlization or dimension because they couldn't just fake the results, since math is a finate language of nature that
cannot change. It is exact.

One example to demonstrate just how exact it is, consider the model of the big bang. At this time if you were to count all the things that there were
just before the moment of the expansion, you would have to conclude that there is only one thing there, a singlar thing and not two singluar things.
And when the universe expanded many things were created, gas, starts, planets and millions of other things we humans have. Phones, TV's, money, books
and all sorts.

So we can say that the state of the universe mathematically speaking, using more and less than terms. The current state of the universe is 2< in that
there is more than one thing in the universe and not just 1 or 1<. In another way the state of the universe in numarical terms before anything happened
was 0, but to get something you need to take somehting, so it took 1. Making the state of reality change from 0, to 1 and -1. 1 being the reality we
are living in, and -1 being the hole that was created in being taken away. Just as when you dig a hole it creates a mound, and leaves a hole behind.
So too does the universe behave this way in mathematical terms.

So maths being as exact at this, and the results we have for what probability states cannot be faked, what are we left to think then. It leaves us back
to what free will is, and what or why it is. If it is not programmed then what is its purpose, for us to have freedom and love must in some way show us
that freewill is a byproduct of a love of somekind.Well for me I personally think from this that there is a God, because he is light, and since Photons are light, can move through time and space and even be in two
places at once.

And freewill not being an illision, born from chaos or determinism or some kind of programmed script. Sure even I know that it is a
stretch to say for sure ther is a God by everything I have said. And that makes perfect sense because all of this doesn't prove it, its only a beleif
I have through my own experiences that I beleive in this. But I wanted to post this because I think its interesting that scinence and religion in ways
do go hand in hand, and not that by using an analogy that God is real. But more over that religion does have a rather interesting prescidence wihtin
science that I think goes hand in hand with each other.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Wilty

     The first thing to clarify is WHY God created man & He certainly has told us why....

Quote

er

 

 

Isaiah 43:7 - [Even] every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.

Genesis 1:26 - And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Ephesians 3:9-10 - And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:   (Read More...)

Revelation 4:11 - Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Titus 2:14 - Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

1 Peter 1:12 - Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

Genesis 1:28 - And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Romans 11:36 - For of him, and through him, and to him, [are] all things: to whom [be] glory for ever. Amen.

1 Peter 5:6-7 - Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:   (Read More...)

Ephesians 2:10 - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Genesis 1:27 - So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Ecclesiastes 12:13 - Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.

1 Corinthians 1:9 - God [is] faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Samuel 12:24 - Only fear the LORD, and serve him in truth with all your heart: for consider how great [things] he hath done for you.

Romans 5:8 - But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Acts 17:27 - That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

1 Corinthians 15:27-28 - For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.   (Read More...)

Ephesians 3:6 - That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

John 15:15 - Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

Free will is a privilege that was given us,God could have made us without free will t o do exactly as He Wills but I think that would have made us void of LOVE.....Free will is what separates Gods Creation from Gods children.......Those of us who choose to be reconciled d o so out of Love for the ONE Who first loved us              

   So ,Wilty,have you thought about being  reconciled to our Heavenly Father....there is only ONE Way,Jesus brings us back into Gods Grace .....but the decision is for each individual to make by h is FREE WILL                                                  With love-in Christ,Kwik

[Willtysn89]

You know with everything that has gone through my mind, considering all other faiths and scientific explanation. My mind lead me to a very worrying thought, my worry is what if it all didn't happen and Jesus was some kind of made up conspiracy?

Im not saying this to casue any offence, I really do want to know Jesus but what made me have this awful thought was the fact that he was prophisied before in the Old Testiment, which makes it somewhat possible that someone appointed him to be Christ at a certain time in order to make people believe. And im looking for any reason possible not to beleive this.

But then I think, what reason at all would there be for this, its not like the Isrialites were powerful or trying to take over the world like the romans were. I just hate having all these doubts, I hate it and I know how happy I really would be if I did believe it. Im just so lost its driving me crazy.

[FresnoJoe]

23 minutes ago, Willtysn89 said:

You know with everything that has gone through my mind, considering all other faiths and scientific explanation. My mind lead me to a very worrying thought, my worry is what if it all didn't happen and Jesus was some kind of made up conspiracy?

I'm not saying this to cause any offense, I really do want to know Jesus but what made me have this awful thought was the fact that he was prophesied before in the Old Testament, which makes it somewhat possible that someone appointed him to be Christ at a certain time in order to make people believe. And I'm looking for any reason possible not to believe this.

But then I think, what reason at all would there be for this, its not like the Israelites were powerful or trying to take over the world like the Romans were. I just hate having all these doubts, I hate it and I know how happy I really would be if I did believe it. I'm just so lost its driving me crazy.

Beloved

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:17 (King James Bible)

Believe It

That day when evening came, he said to his disciples, “Let us go over to the other side.” Leaving the crowd behind, they took him along, just as he was, in the boat. There were also other boats with him. A furious squall came up, and the waves broke over the boat, so that it was nearly swamped. Jesus was in the stern, sleeping on a cushion. The disciples woke him and said to him, “Teacher, don’t you care if we drown?”

He got up, rebuked the wind and said to the waves, “Quiet! Be still!” Then the wind died down and it was completely calm.

He said to his disciples, “Why are you so afraid? Do you still have no faith?”

They were terrified and asked each other, “Who is this? Even the wind and the waves obey him!” Mark 4:35-41 (New International Version)

Or Not

When the other disciples saw what was about to happen, they exclaimed, “Lord, should we fight? We brought the swords!” And one of them struck at the high priest’s slave, slashing off his right ear.

But Jesus said, “No more of this.” And he touched the man’s ear and healed him. Luke 22:49-51 (New Living Translation)

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

Love, Your Brother Joe

~

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160 (King James Bible)

The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable.

Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you.

It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword and the Christian’s charter. Here too, Heaven is opened and the gates of Hell disclosed.

Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully.  It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure.

It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered forever. It involves the highest responsibility, rewards the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.

From The Inside Of My Gideon New Testament

[Willtysn89]

Ive heard that the Bible is written by many many authors, from many lands backgrounds and positions within socienty and many hadnt even met or shared these texts with each other until the formation of the early church. How is it possible that this same message rings true.

I beleive in one church too, all others seem not to be of Christ but of themselvs, which is exactly what Christ warned everyone about. But I guess its just these minor little questions I have left which are holding me back along with the mentions of his coming and birth.

Could you if possible help me to shed light on this?

[turquoise]

Hi, Willtysn89, we seem to think about similar issues. I only skimmed what you wrote.

On your suggestion that our sensation of free will implies the reality of free will, I disagree. I think our brains are constantly looking for patterns like "when this happens then that happens". For example, "when dark clouds form in the sky, then rain usually happens next". Our brains also look for patterns in our own behavior, but brains are so complex and stupidly constructed that the patterns are less apparent. There are some patterns. For example, there are reflexes like hitting your knee with a hammer and seeing a movement. But mostly the patterns are weaker. Thus we invent this idea that a "choice" was made. That leads to the idea of a spirit or soul that is sitting in the cockpit of the human body making these choices.

On the free will, maybe there is better evidence in quantum mechanics. I took an introductory QM class, in college, but I didn't understand it unfortunately. It just seemed like weird math, and I could not visualize what the math was saying about reality. I wish I had stuck with physics as a major, so I might have understood it better. It seems important on these philosophical questions.

I hope you hang around.

Here is a question for you: is free will a requirement for Christianity? If we are computer simulations, Christianity might be part of the environment that changes our behaviors.

Oh yeah, here is a link I found on free will from the Bhagavad Gita's perspective:

http://www.krishna.com/fate-free-will-and-you

 

[turquoise]

^ One other thing, the Krishna Consciousness or Hare Krishna religion is probably somewhat like a cult. I don't know that much, but that is what I've heard. Cults are hard to escape after you get involved. I definitely wouldn't advocate joining that religious group unless I was certain that I can quit later just as easily as I joined. LOL (I'm a very fickle person.)

[Willtysn89]

Just to clarify, are you saying its more likely that there is a God because freewill is definatly free choice?

[FresnoJoe]

51 minutes ago, Willtysn89 said:

I've heard that the Bible is written by many many authors, from many lands backgrounds and positions within society and many hadn't even met or shared these texts with each other until the formation of the early church. How is it possible that this same message rings true.

Beloved, With God

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. 2 Timothy 3:16-17

All Things Are Possible

For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 1 Peter 1:21

[turquoise]

14 minutes ago, Willtysn89 said:

Just to clarify, are you saying its more likely that there is a God because freewill is definatly free choice?

That's not what I'm saying, but I'm not sure if you are asking me or somebody else.

In some ways, freewill makes God less necessary. One of the arguments for God is the "first cause". Freewill is like saying there is no cause in the physical world. Maybe there is no cause in the metaphysical world either. That kills the "first cause" argument for God.