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Is Salvation Conditional??


woundeddog

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Understanding the doctrine of “once saved always saved “ is critical to a Christian life filled with peace of mind and power.

We have gone back and forth on this topic to the point where it could be relegated to the “DEAD HORSE AWARD” file, but I felt it was important to compile the various thoughts and scriptures related to this subject so those that might be wavering or new believers could have that peace of mind that the Holy Spirit gives when one truly has been born again.

Many verses have been offered that seem to imply that salvation can be lost. It is critical to realize that the Bible talks about both saved and unsaved people- and that some people that profess to know God are not in fact saved. The Bible says they have a “Form of Godliness but deny the power there of”

“2 timothy 3:5 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. “

This verse directly applies to false teachers but many individuals think they have a religious connection with God in fact only have book learning but have not experienced Gods saving grace through Jesus.

Verses that seem to indicate that a person can fall out of grace or loose salvation are versus that talk about individuals that are not saved in the first place. It is important with these troublesome verses that you determine exactly to who its speaking to and what it is saying—God speaks clearly and if you have to force a meaning from a verse it probably doesn’t mean what you are trying to make it mean.

First thought is that a believer cannot commit the “unpardonable sin”. That sin is to Blaspheme the Holy Spirit, and what that does not means a person cusses with the Holy Spirts name or say tongues are not for this time, but to deny that Jesus is God. The Holy Spirit witnesses that Jesus is God, to blaspheme the Spirit means to deny the Deity of Jesus. It is essential to salvation to Believe Jesus is God, therefore if you do not believe Jesus is God you are calling the Holy Spirit a liar  and you can’t be saved~~~ So if you are already saved you cannot commit the unpardonable sin.

Another issue I have heard is that a person can willingly walk away from God and discard their salvation. Once again we have to remember not all people who profess Christ are truly saved. Various reasons can cause a person to say they are saved but when push comes to shove either persecution or desires of the flesh make them walk away. The encouragement for the truly saved would be John 10 :28 and 29.

John 10 28, “And I give them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand”

29 “My Father, which gave them to me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Fathers hand”

As a retort to this I have heard folks say- well it doesn’t say you can’t jump out of the Fathers hand yourself---- a safe assumption is that “no Man” means any man including yourself, but if further scripture is needed

Romans 8:35-39

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

This is the King James translation and the wording is critical—verse 39 says “nor any other creature” a creature is something created—we are created so this proves we cannot separate ourselves from the Love of God .

The thing that folks have trouble understanding is that our salvation does not depend on God forgiving us our individual sins. Sin in itself is separation from God, sin means to miss the mark. The Bible says without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. Jesus blood pays the price and ends the separation of sinful man and God--- it’s not that he forgives each sin as we commit them, he forgives the whole body of our sin as soon as we believe. Past present and future.

When a person thinks they can lose their salvation, it may mean they think they must live a certain way to maintain it. That makes it salvation by works, which once again means an unlearned believer has drifted into error, or that person has not truly trusted Christs work in the first place and is not actually saved.

SO—if you can’t lose your salvation you can commit any sin you want? This is a comment made by people that have never felt the power of the Holy Spirit in their lives—we are sealed by the Holy Spirit—what does that mean?? Do we know the secret handshake? Do we have a star tattooed between our toes? Do we have a cross burnt into our foreheads??? Of course not.  The Holy Spirit warns of sin if we  do sin that nagging feeling or sadness we feel as a result is the sealing of the Spirit—if we had no sadness over sin at all we should doubt that we have the Holy Spirit—the Sealing of the Spirit is the witness of right or wrong in our hearts. Technically a believer could commit any sin they want, but in practice our Advocate who lives within us keeps us from habitual and grievous sin

On the cross Jesus said “It is finished” the sacrifice was made and was complete- sin was destroyed for the believer his Resurrection showed that the believer was bought back from sin “. The wages of sin is death”-= His death paid the price, his resurrection showed that the Father accepted the price he paid and that the believer could live in harmony with God.

In conclusion, salvation is guaranteed to the real believer, it is bullet proof because God promises it. To deny unconditional salvation means either a person does not fully understand the extent of God’s love, or they need to study scripture more, or in a sad case they may not be saved and do not know how to rightly divide the word of God, or in the worse case they are a false teacher trying to derail a believers faith.

Here are some encouraging Verses

John 5:24 “Verily ,verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word , and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation: but is passed from death unto life.

John 3:36 “He that believeth on the son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”

John 6:39”And this is the Fathers will which hath sent me, that of all that he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.”

Ephesians 2:8&9 “For by grace are we saved by faith, and not of ourselves, it is a gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast.”

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The person who does not remain to the end probably did not truly belong to God in the first place.  It is God Who is faithful.  Not us.  While I was backslidden I can remember asking God not to let me fall aware too far.  He didn't.  And when I was restored I surrendered 100%.  There is nothing more miserable than a backslidden Christian, a prodigal eating pig slop and remembering the feasts at the Father's table.  Don't ever want to go there again.

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Is salvation conditional?

Yes and no.

As Willa claims in her post..... if you don't get saved you probably never belonged to God in the first place.

So is salvation conditional?

Yes and no.

I'm sorry for giving a cryptic answer.... but I'm sure that others will explain better than I can right now. Let's put it this way - technically it's unconditional but your own actions may determine whether it really is or not. Only God knows what's in your heart.

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I believe that someone that was once saved can fall out of the Grace of God.  The Bible speaks of those who once knew the truth, had tasted of the goodness of God and have gone so far out of His will that there is a point to which they cannot return.  It is impossible because their hearts have been so hardened, just like the people that are not saved can say no so many times to the Holy Spirit they can no longer even consider repenting. 

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21 minutes ago, RustyAngeL said:

I believe that someone that was once saved can fall out of the Grace of God.  The Bible speaks of those who once knew the truth, had tasted of the goodness of God and have gone so far out of His will that there is a point to which they cannot return.  It is impossible because their hearts have been so hardened, just like the people that are not saved can say no so many times to the Holy Spirit they can no longer even consider repenting. 

Technically you are correct, but then again I'm wondering if such people were ever really saved in the first place. It sounds to me that they knew the truth, tasted God's goodness but then rejected it. If you taste something so good but still reject it then I guess that deep down you never wanted it in the first place.

It reminds me of a story that I heard where a Christian street preacher approaches a self-confessed Satanist and tries to witness to him. The Satanist is a tattooed thug who surprisingly is willing to listen. The preacher slowly and patiently explains to the Satanist how Jesus died for him and the Satanist politely listens without interruption. After a lengthy lecture on scripture and a gentle but marvelously non-judgemental appeal to the Satanist, the preacher concludes his sermon with a message of love.

The Satanist then politely replies (without malice), and he tells the preacher that he knew this already and he knows the Bible as well as anybody and he believes every word of it, but he doesn't care because he's chosen Satan anyway. He then bids the preacher farewell and continues on his way.

Some people know the truth but don't care. They are aware of the consequences of their actions but still choose to follow their own path.

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A true salvation is not conditional.

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20 minutes ago, OakWood said:

Technically you are correct, but then again I'm wondering if such people were ever really saved in the first place. It sounds to me that they knew the truth, tasted God's goodness but then rejected it. If you taste something so good but still reject it then I guess that deep down you never wanted it in the first place.

It reminds me of a story that I heard where a Christian street preacher approaches a self-confessed Satanist and tries to witness to him. The Satanist is a tattooed thug who surprisingly is willing to listen. The preacher slowly and patiently explains to the Satanist how Jesus died for him and the Satanist politely listens without interruption. After a lengthy lecture on scripture and a gentle but marvelously non-judgemental appeal to the Satanist, the preacher concludes his sermon with a message of love.

The Satanist then politely replies (without malice), and he tells the preacher that he knew this already and he knows the Bible as well as anybody and he believes every word of it, but he doesn't care because he's chosen Satan anyway. He then bids the preacher farewell and continues on his way.

Some people know the truth but don't care. They are aware of the consequences of their actions but still choose to follow their own path.

I think they were saved. The scripture is pretty clear.  Hebrews 6:4-6  It speaks about those who have "fallen away". It speaks about them falling away and making it impossible for them to return. It's very sad but it's true.  

Blessings, RustyAngeL

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1 hour ago, RustyAngeL said:

I think they were saved. The scripture is pretty clear.

it says IF they should fall away--- it doesnt say they did fall away-- what this verse means is that if a person could fall away there would be no way to re-save them.

It doesnt talk about people who HAVE fallen away- it says IF they fall away.

I am using King James phraseology

this was a response to people that where preaching you could lose salvation by sinning  and then regain it by repentance---- that sin would "unsave " you and repentance would "resave " you

 

this is one of those troublesome verses that need to be looked at for what they actually say, not what we might think they are saying

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4 hours ago, woundeddog said:

Understanding the doctrine of “once saved always saved “ is critical to a Christian life filled with peace of mind and power.

Good post. 

4 hours ago, woundeddog said:

It is essential to salvation to Believe Jesus is God, therefore if you do not believe Jesus is God you are calling the Holy Spirit a liar  and you can’t be saved~~~ So if you are already saved you cannot commit the unpardonable sin.

Exactly. This is why those who adhere to the cults cannot be saved and cannot grasp Bible truth.

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5 hours ago, Willa said:

There is nothing more miserable than a backslidden Christian

this is the perfect example of the sealing of the Holy Spirit-- this is a true testimony of salvation!!!

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