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The Days of Noah and Lot


Endtime_Survivors

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2 hours ago, FresnoJoe said:

:emot-heartbeat:

The Sin Of The World

Of sin, because they believe not on me; John 16:9

It'll Bit Any Who Refuse

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11:6

To Believe

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:24

Hi Joe.  Thanks for the response, though I think I'm not understanding how you're relating your comments to the quote.  Would you mind elaborating?

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On 9/2/2016 at 1:51 AM, Endtime_Survivors said:

 sins of the world....

:emot-heartbeat:

The Sins Of The World

Of sin, because they believe not on me; John 16:9

~

Now Time, End Time, Every Time Survivor

As Far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us. Psalms 103:12

Rests On Jesus Christ

It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:

If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
2 Timothy 2:11-13

So Cling To Him

For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten ( unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life. John 3:16 (The Amplified Bible)

~

A Wonderful Video Indeed Beloved
Thank You For Sharing
Go Bro~!

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. Mark 16:15 

Love, Your Brother Joe

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4 hours ago, FresnoJoe said:

A Wonderful Video Indeed Beloved
Thank You For Sharing
Go Bro~!

Ahh, I see. Thanks Joe.

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5 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

I watched the video as well

Thanks.

5 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

the whole "Social Justice Warrior" vibe to it is a little heavy-handed.

Sorry, I don't understand the reference here.

5 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

How could you make the logical jump that Jesus is saying here that just living a daily life like everyone else can be a sin?

Are you saying it's illogical to suggest that day-to-day activities can be sinful? Did you see the corroborating parable from Luke 14 where the people refused their Lord because they were too busy with the day-to-day cares of this life?  The video also referenced the "cares and pleasures of this life" which choke the plants.  It reference the rich fool who spent his time building bigger and bigger barns.  It also reference the rich man who goes to hell and the poor man who is rewarded.

In each of those example the lesson is about how we relate to the material world around us and specifically, how the material world can so easily distract us away from listening to God.  The foolish man wasn't wrong for building a barn.  He was wrong for doing so contrary to God's will.

5 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

 While Noah was building the Ark and telling the people that judgement was coming, they couldn't have cared less.

The question is, why could they have cared less?  What did  they care about if it wasn't God? 

 

5 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

It isn't about putting daily life ahead of God, since these people that Jesus is talking about didn't believe in God or heed what He said anyway.

Can you quote the scripture which says these people didn't believe in God?  At least in Noah's day Abraham believed he could find even 10 righteous people.  Why would he do that if these people were all atheists? No, I think Abraham was fooled by religious double-speak.  There were plenty of people who had fancy religious talk ( which is probably why he thought he could find righteous people there), but when it came to the crunch he didn't find anything more than talk. It must have been a very disappointing, yet informative lesson about genuine righteousness.

5 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

Jesus' point is that an unbelieving world, during the End Times, will continue on with their daily lives knowing that things will continue on as they always have, despite clear signs that this is not true, that judgement is coming.

Following the logic, this means that any confessing Christians who carry on with day-to-day life despite the signs of the times around us, that they are actually part of the "unbelieving world" despite their claims to the contrary?  It reminds me of the people knocking at the gate saying, "Jesus, you know us" and he replying, "No, I never knew you".

5 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

It has nothing to do with some kind of concept that somehow daily life is evil or sinful.

Only if that daily life interferes with our ability to hear and obey the Lord.  Apparently it's one of the easiest things to do considering the example of Noah, the example of Lot and all the teachings Jesus gave which relate to materialism and the physical world.

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Hi cobalt.  Something strange seems to be happening in our communication.  The example you gave from you personal life suggest that you may be personally offended, which I think could be interfering with your ability to rationally examine the issues.   I am reminded of the saying, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!"

For example, you say

6 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

Define the day-to-day activities that you keep implying are sinful.  If those activities themselves are a sin and you repeat them daily, then yes.  Otherwise, no.  I go to work.  I come home.  I sleep.  I cook a meal.  My wife and I watch a movie.  We talk.  Rinse and Repeat.  It is impossible to determine, from your habitual use of the simple term "day to day" what exactly you keep calling sinful behavior.

But then you say...

6 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

In all of the examples you list, the activities the person is engaged in are not nearly as important a focus as to the condition of their heart.

Aren't you just playing games here?  Then you go on to say...

6 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

What Abraham may have believed about the people of Sodom is immaterial.

Yes, now I know you are allowing a personal bias to influence how you view this issue.  Why should Abraham's testimony be immaterial?  He's an eye witness to what was happening with those people just before the flood, but because his testimony does not conform with your point of view, you casually brush it aside as immaterial.

There is no question as to whether the people were corrupt or not.  The question has always been WHY did God see them as corrupt.  Jesus' explanation was that they were too busy with the cares of this world to care about what he, their creator, wanted.  That sounds pretty corrupt to me.  Jesus wanted us to understand that corruption isn't just drunkards, murderers, fornicators, or thieves.  The corrupt can, and often does include ordinary, decent folk who are guilty of nothing so sinister as decently going about their day-to-day lives without a care for what God wants.

This is especially true for the religious folk because they often do this while assuming they are right with God.  Remember that part about the people who thought they should be allowed into the party, but then Jesus says, "I never knew you"?  Why would they assume they should have been let in?  Obviously, because they believed they were right with God, and yet Jesus saw something very different in their walk, just like he saw something very different in the sins of Noah and Lot's day. 

You carry on about how corrupt those people were as though they were so very different from you, but were they really so different?  According to Jesus, not really.   Who knows.  Perhaps the people of Lot's day thought the same things about the people of Noah's day, which is precisely why he talked about the same sins for both Noah and Lot's day.  It's easy to point to the people of Noah and Lot's day and say, "at least I'm not like those people" and feel better about our own sinfulness.

Jesus' answer is that we are not so different from them.  They were humans and we are humans; we all struggle with materialism, greed, fear, pride, laziness, hypocrisy, etc... We all struggle to put God first, before anything else.  Abraham went through it, too.  God wanted to take his kid away from him and Abraham passed.  The people of Lot's day did not.  Just like the people in the parable from Luke 14, they were too busy with the day-to-day cares of life to care about what God wanted, so they were destroyed.

 

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On 9/1/2016 at 9:05 AM, OakWood said:

I does, you're right and I'm not denying it, but this video is suggesting that people are to be punished for such things. Note how it rules out Atheism, homosexuality and so on.... as a cause of God's wrath and makes out that God is punishing people for getting married and so on....

The focus is on the believer that allows the cares of the world to overcome their love for the things of the Father. The reason the list of sins is omitted is because it's abundantly clear the person that does such things is not pure in heart, mind or body. What is not at all obvious is the subtle nature of the cares of the world creeping into our existence like a choking vine. The vid above is warning to believers. You're not suggesting that believers have no sin or cannot sin or backslide? If you'd like I can post a half dozen verses that prove the opposite.

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On 9/1/2016 at 11:52 AM, Jayne said:

Well, I've watched this video twice and I can't wrap my head around the creator's faulty exegesis.  I wish this person had not disabled comments on Youtube from the video.  OP - is this your video or are you just sharing what you found?

Here's the actual scriptures presented and commentated upon and that's all I can deal with - what does the Bible ACTUALLY say.

Citation #1 - Luke 17:26-29

26 Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot—they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, 29 but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all— 30 so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

Where, WHERE, does it say that Jesus is condemning these people for getting married and farming and buying/selling and eating and drinking?  Where does it say he has a "beef" with this as the author of this video describe the video on Youtube.  It doesn't.  Where does it say that Jesus considers these things to be just as sinful as homosexuality and atheism?  It doesn't.

But that's what the author of the video is saying.

Jesus is saying that just like in days of old people- not knowing destruction was coming - just went about life as business as usual.  Destruction came without warning and their lives were wiped out.  When the Son of Man is revealed (I won't get into what that means - that's another thread) people will again be taken by surprise - (never taking heed of any Biblical signs).

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Citation #2 - Luke 14:16-24

15 When one of those who reclined at table with him heard these things, he said to him, “Blessed is everyone who will eat bread in the kingdom of God!” 16 But he said to him, “A man once gave a great banquet and invited many. 17 And at the time for the banquet he sent his servant[c] to say to those who had been invited, ‘Come, for everything is now ready.’ 18 But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said to him, ‘I have bought a field, and I must go out and see it. Please have me excused.’ 19 And another said, ‘I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to examine them. Please have me excused.’ 20 And another said, ‘I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.’ 21 So the servant came and reported these things to his master. Then the master of the house became angry and said to his servant, ‘Go out quickly to the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in the poor and crippled and blind and lame.’ 22 And the servant said, ‘Sir, what you commanded has been done, and still there is room.’ 23 And the master said to the servant, ‘Go out to the highways and hedges and compel people to come in, that my house may be filled. 24 For I tell you,[d] none of those men who were invited shall taste my banquet.’”

Again, this is NOT Jesus condemning agricultural jobs, animal husbandry, marriage, or any other endeavor.  It's not even Jesus claiming that we shouldn't put these things ahead of him.  This has NOTHING to do with daily living.

This is Jesus giving a metaphorical picture to the Jews of his day of their rejection of him with terribly pathetic excuses and his going to the Gentiles (the "unclean", the "poor, crippled, blind, and lame")

Someone brought this to my attention once - look at the excuses:  A man bought property literally "site" unseen.  Another bought oxen sight unseen.  And another man says that now that he is married, he can't come.  If these two men already bought property and oxen without looking at it first - why should they care if they made a quality purchase or not.  It's just an excuse not to come to the "Master".  And what prevents married people from going out to parties?  The married man does not WANT to come.

These people don't WANT the free gift of the banquet (salvation).

This parable is about the Jewish people, specifically the religious elite,  who SHOULD have thrown themselves at Jesus' feet in gratitude for the "banquet" but instead dismissed his free gift of grace.

 

Are you saying the only people that can reject Jesus are the Jews? I'm thinking that The Jews are the people of God. The Jews saw the might and provision of God manifest in the physical realm and still some rejected the Father. Are you suggesting that Believers are a better, more perfect class of the people of God and therefore can never reject the Father?

Are you positing the believer cannot ever let the cares of the world overcome the believer trust and love for God?  You a wrong here, "Again, this is NOT Jesus condemning agricultural jobs, animal husbandry, marriage, or any other endeavor.  It's not even Jesus claiming that we shouldn't put these things ahead of him.  This has NOTHING to do with daily living." in light of several verses, to wit:

Matt 7

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matt 10

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.

39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

Mark 4

19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful.

Believers need to be alert at all times and that what the video explains. It's axiomatic that anything can become a division between us and the Father if we prioritize our earthy cares to the top of the list.

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On 9/2/2016 at 8:16 AM, Jayne said:

I can't do this anymore.  You have your mind made up.  C'est la vie.

Our disagreement lies in the fact that you claim with your video that Luke 17 is about idolatry and putting things before the Lord, and your video heavily implies as two people have told you that homosexuality and atheism are relatively benign and it's the Christians who are the bad guys with their daily living.  Two people have now told you that.

Luke 17 is not about sin, idolatry, a "beef" Jesus has, nor any wrongdoing.  It's about a timeline and a prophecy Jesus makes that the humanity will be taken by surprise as the inhabitants of the earth were and the citizens of Sodom were.

You've taken it to mean a comparison of the sins of the lost and the sins of the Christians. 

If I haven't made that clear now - I never will.  God bless.

 

The point Jesus, and the vid, makes here is about the cares of the world being so important to the denizens of earth that the end came and no one cared. It's not a timeline, it's a comparison between two events of utter destruction and the coming of the Son of Man and the conditions that will exist at that time. Jesus is saying the people will be indifferent to the warnings of the prophets of the coming calamity. This includes everyone, believers and unbelievers alike. I have looked at your posts and you seem to contradict yourself. If anything can become and idol, and believers are not immune to idol creation, then they will have separated themselves from God, and therefore are "the bad guys". And you miss the point, likely because you think you may be guilty of prioritizing daily life over the things of the Father; it's the amount of concern over the cares of the world blinding us to the things we should be doing and thinking. 

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Hi Diaste.  Fantastic posts.  Thanks for adding your thoughts to the issue.

I particularly liked this quote:

On 9/9/2016 at 5:02 PM, Diaste said:

And you miss the point, likely because you think you may be guilty of prioritizing daily life over the things of the Father; it's the amount of concern over the cares of the world blinding us to the things we should be doing and thinking. 

I think the sad fact is that we're all guilty, to some degree, of prioritizing daily life over what God wants.  The point of the teaching from Jesus is to get us to think seriously about that, and to look for ways in which we can change those priorities. We won't be able to do that until we can at least begin to question ourselves.   "Is my job really consistent with what God wants"?  "Is God really ok with me marrying this person"?  Am I really eating and drinking to the glory of God"?

I had a person tell me that he's so convinced and "settled in his heart" about what he believes that he doesn't even bother to think about arguments if they are contrary to what he believes.  He said this as though it was some kind of spiritual confidence and it was shocking to me, because my understanding is that Christianity is all about questioning ourselves, one another,  and even questioning God, if we can do it in a sincere and humble way.

This idea that there are certain activities and beliefs which are so normal, ordinary, and fundamental that they are beyond question is precisely the trap that Jesus was referring to when referencing the days of Noah and Lot.

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