Do you go straight to Heaven at death?

[FresnoJoe]

On 9/18/2016 at 7:47 PM, StanJ said:

The kingdom of heaven and Heaven are two different places/things. Heaven is where God is but the Kingdom of Heaven is where True Believers here on earth allow God to rule in their lives. The Book of Matthew is the only New Testament book that uses the term 'Kingdom of Heaven' and it is used 31 times.

And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.  Luke 22:29-32

 

[Ezra]

On 9/15/2016 at 7:48 PM, Sister said:

We will be woken up at the resurrection, and this is when we will be conscious again of our surroundings.

This is false doctrine. The resurrection is to unite souls and spirits which are already in Heaven with their glorious, immortal bodies at the Resurrection/ Rapture.

But Soul Sleep is not what anyone experiences.  Read and meditate on the martyrdom of Stephen. And Paul makes it crystal clear -- to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. And everyone is very much alive in Heaven.

[Sister]

2 hours ago, Ezra said:

This is false doctrine. The resurrection is to unite souls and spirits which are already in Heaven with their glorious, immortal bodies at the Resurrection/ Rapture.

Ezra

 Revelation 8:1   And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

  Revelation 8:2   And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

  Revelation 8:3   And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

 Revelation 8:4   And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

Something for you to think about?

If one's soul gets taken straight to heaven when he dies, then why are the prayers of the saints ascending up to heaven?  ....All at the same time mind you.   If the saints are up there, then why are their prayers all down below?

  Revelation 15:8   And the temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God, and from his power; and no man was able to enter into the temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels were fulfilled.

 

[Ezra]

5 minutes ago, Sister said:

If one's soul gets taken straight to heaven when he dies, then why are the prayers of the saints ascending up to heaven?  .

Simple.  The prayers of the saints ON EARTH ascend up to Heaven.

In Heaven itself, the saints who have passed on are always with God and Christ, so there is direct communion and communication in Heaven, and all are very much alive because God and Christ are LIFE (Hebrews 12).

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

[Sister]

20 hours ago, Ezra said:

Simple.  The prayers of the saints ON EARTH ascend up to Heaven.

In Heaven itself, the saints who have passed on are always with God and Christ, so there is direct communion and communication in Heaven, and all are very much alive because God and Christ are LIFE (Hebrews 12).

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Ezra

All the saints who have been oppressed by this world ...even since the days of Christ, have cried out to God for justice.

Just before the 7 trumpets sound, ...in one day, on the same day....all their prayers together combined, will be collected and taken up to heaven and given to the angel with the golden censor who will offer it on to the altar before God.

....Now God will answer their prayers,...now.... and ACT on their behalf by sending the 7 angels forth with the 7 plagues.  Punishment on this world will commence. 

At this stage, only their prayers will now be answered.  The saints have not gone anywhere yet, but God will now plead their cause and avenge the world on their behalf.

You have not proven to me that there are saints already in heaven.  The 24 elders yes, I believe they are there, but the rest no.  I cannot see it anywhere in the scriptures? 

The saints will be all collected together at the Coming when Christ gives them their reward, and that reward is life back from the grave, ...eternal life, and those who are still alive "quickened", and this all happens at the same time when all get to meet with their Lord in the air together as one at his Coming.  This is when it all happens, ....so the "prayers of the saints" get taken up and answered before the saints get taken up, because vengeance of the Lord comes first, and during the 7 trumpets, more saints will die, as it's not over yet, and all those saints who are dead are still in the ground, totally unaware of anything because their reward has not come yet, only their prayers are now answered,..that they prayed during their life, and whether dead or alive, they are still below.

The scriptures you gave me does not prove your opinion as you have to read it again very carefully.

Quote

 

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

 

The scriptures are speaking of Zion, the kingdom of God, heavenly Jerusalem.  We dwell in the spiritual Zion before the physical comes, by obeying her laws.  It's a heavenly kingdom we have approached with our heart, not an earthly kingdom, and I'm not sure that you can wrap your head around this yet, which is why I keep trying to explain.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Sister
spelling

[Ezra]

2 hours ago, Sister said:

You have not proven to me that there are saints already in heaven. 

So you simply ignored Heb 12:22-24?  That is convenient. We can simply pick and choose what is in the Bible.

[Sister]

11 minutes ago, Ezra said:

So you simply ignored Heb 12:22-24?  That is convenient. We can simply pick and choose what is in the Bible.

Ezra

God is speaking to the living in Christ, not the dead.

 

 Hebrews 12:22   But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

You have come to Mt Sion, God's City, his holy City....he is speaking to us now, the living.  He is not speaking to the dead.

  Hebrews 12:23   To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
 

You have come to the general assembly,...the gathering and church of the firstborn.

Jesus was the firstborn.  Firstborn of the dead.   This church,...this assembly.  These are "written in heaven"  Our names recorded in the book of life.  Their not their yet, but have a place preserved.

The spirits of just men made perfect: - the apostles, they are our teachers.  They were sent out to teach us through the gospels and epistles.  They are dead now, but their words live on forever.  We have their word today, and are learning from it,....discussing it, quoting it, believing in it.

 

  Hebrews 12:24   And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

What Jesus speaks is coming from Mt Sion.  His Words, it's all about us knowing his words.

 

 Hebrews 12:25   See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

Don't refuse what Christ speaks.  He's talking to the living.  Giving us a warning.

  Hebrews 12:26   Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

The same voice who spoke these things is Jesus, the Word of God, ....

 Isaiah 13:13   Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

  Hebrews 12:27   And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

Everything is going to be shaken, changed, turned upside down, the only thing that remains the same is his WORD!....TRUTH! 

.....So if we are joined to the truth  we will not be removed, because his Word is true.

  Hebrews 12:28   Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

.....So if we are joined to the truth  we will not be removed, because his Word is true and we will be ONE with THE TRUTH.  His Kingdom is based on TRUTH.  He's still warning us to serve God with respect and "godly fear".  Don't be too sure of ourselves, examine our hearts, hear his WORD.

  Hebrews 12:29   For our God is a consuming fire.

.....Or else he will consume us also.  It's a warning, the whole chapter.  Says nothing about souls being taken up straight after the person dies, but speaks about his kingdom, and warns us that he is going to shake everything.  We need to understand what he is really speaking about, what the real message is. 

Jeremiah 25:30   Therefore prophesy thou against them all these words, and say unto them, The LORD shall roar from on high, and utter his voice from his holy habitation; he shall mightily roar upon his habitation; he shall give a shout, as they that tread the grapes, against all the inhabitants of the earth.

God is not going to be silent forever.  He is coming out of his covert, and will shake not only the whole earth, but those who offend in Zion.

[Sister]

On 09/09/2016 at 6:39 PM, Ezra said:

Because the soul and spirit live on. Why did you stop your quotations with the Old Testament?  Keep on reading to discover the truth.  Yes we are eternal souls and spirits and bodies are temporal. The souls and spirit of regenerated Christians go directly to be with the Lord. Hence "absent from the body, present with the Lord".

Ezra.

We need to read this carefully.  The real message has been lost. 

 

2 Corinthians 5:1   For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

  2 Corinthians 5:2   For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

The saints are supposed to be found wearing white robes.  We earnestly desire to be clothed with this...... truth....white clean robes, wearing righteousness. 

  2 Corinthians 5:3   If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

Without the white robes, we are seen as naked, no covering to hide our shame.  Sins not forgiven.  Not wearing righteousness.

  2 Corinthians 5:4   For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

We want to be clothed with his truth and righteousness, so that we can receive this eternal life Christ so graciously offered.  We don't groan to be unclothed, but clothed, ...ready

  2 Corinthians 5:5   Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

Because of God, we have this desire to be clothed with righteousness in all sincerity.
 

  2 Corinthians 5:6   Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:

 whilst we are at home in the body (in the flesh), we are absent from the Lord....not with him yet until he comes for us, but still confident.  We can only be "confident" whilst we live.  Says nothing about souls being taken up straight away, but speaking to the living, speaking about hope.

 2 Corinthians 5:7   (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

Speaking about the living, not the dead.

 2 Corinthians 5:8   We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

We would rather be with the Lord, then here in the flesh.  That is our earnest desire, what we long for.... to be with him. 

  2 Corinthians 5:9   Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

We labour to be ACCEPTED regardless.  To be accepted when the Lord comes, and before he comes which is now.

  2 Corinthians 5:10   For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

A warning to us also, that we may also be judged depending on whether we are clothed with righteousness, or found naked.

  2 Corinthians 5:11   Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Hear us, we are warning you on God's behalf.  Nothing about souls being taken straight to heaven when we die, but a warning to the living.  Whether Christ is absent or present we need to be wearing these white robes.  This is our clothing from heaven, and what the chapter is really speaking of.  We need to understand what we are reading, and not twist the message.

 

 Revelation 19:8   And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

 Revelation 7:9   After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

[Flsnookman]

Spiritually we who are saved are in Heaven right now... Phillipians 3:20-21 

²⁰ For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

²¹ Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Phillipians 3:20-21 (amp) 

²⁰ But [we are different, because] our citizenship is in heaven. And from there we eagerly await [the coming of] the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; ²¹ who, by exerting that power which enables Him even to subject everything to Himself, will [not only] transform [but completely refashion] our earthlybodies so that they will be like His glorious resurrected body.

[one_christian_warrior]

no, to the man on the cross beside Jesus, He said "today shalt thou be with me in paradise"