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Our mortal enemy has deceived the church with many lies!


ZacharyB

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8 hours ago, Judas Machabeus said:

i have very much enjoyed our exchange. 

I have also- the wonderful thing about the Lord is that he allows each of us to have our own personal reformation-- so that you MAY KNOW you have eternal life!

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Guest Judas Machabeus

You are factually incorrect regarding the Peter topic and I challenge you to produce 1st century teaching of sola scripture. Not only is sola scriptura nonbiblical it also was no taught until Luther. 

 

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1 hour ago, Judas Machabeus said:

You are factually incorrect regarding the Peter topic and I challenge you to produce 1st century teaching of sola scripture. Not only is sola scriptura nonbiblical it also was no taught until Luther. 

 

well- the Bible wasn't completed until near the end of the first century- so doctrine was based on Apostolic teaching- but that authority ended when the last True apostle died.  and the Bible became the only clear voice of Jesus to mankind.

 

But I guess a more important issue would be, Do you have complete confidence and know in the bottom of your heart that if for some terrible reason you were to die in accident or illness today with out the benefit of confession or last rites that you would go directly to heaven?

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2 hours ago, Judas Machabeus said:

 Not only is sola scriptura nonbiblical it also was no taught until Luther. 

 

A second thought on this--- Since the Bible says that the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth isn't is reasonable to assume that Luther and the Other reformers where being lead by the Spirit to correct an error of doctrine being practiced by the organized church? God will preserve His word.

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Guest Judas Machabeus
1 hour ago, woundeddog said:

well- the Bible wasn't completed until near the end of the first century- so doctrine was based on Apostolic teaching- but that authority ended when the last True apostle died.  and the Bible became the only clear voice of Jesus to mankind.

 

But I guess a more important issue would be, Do you have complete confidence and know in the bottom of your heart that if for some terrible reason you were to die in accident or illness today with out the benefit of confession or last rites that you would go directly to heaven?

Actually the Bible wasn't compiled until the end of the 4th century. The books were written but there was no canon, and it was the Church through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, that determined which books belonged and which ones didn't. So your claim that when the last apostle died and the bible became the only true voice is incorrect. 

 

can you show me where in the bible it teaches that Apostolic teaching ends with the death of the last Apostle. Revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle, I agree with that. But their teaches continued on.

 

I can show you where Paul creates a line of ordained men and instructs Titus to continue doing so. 

Titus 1:5

5 This is why I left you in Crete, that you might amend what was defective, and appoint elders * in every town as I directed you,

Titus 1:9

9 he must hold firm to the sure word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to confute those who contradict it.

no where does scripture ever say that the oral teaching stops. Christ Church is visible AND structured. 

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Guest Judas Machabeus
44 minutes ago, woundeddog said:

A second thought on this--- Since the Bible says that the Holy Spirit will lead us into all truth isn't is reasonable to assume that Luther and the Other reformers where being lead by the Spirit to correct an error of doctrine being practiced by the organized church? God will preserve His word.

This was my point at the very beginning. I believe it was Satan and NOT the Holy Spirit that lead Luther.

Actually to be fair, it was mental health issues that lead Luther into error. 

To say that the Holy Spirit was leading the reformers to correct error means that the Holy Spirit failed and Jesus was wrong. 

Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against his Church. And he would send the Holy Spirit to guide it and protect it.

So if you are correct (and I would say you are not) Than if there was error in doctrine that needed correcting than for 1500 years the Holy Spirit failed to protect the Church from error. 

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1 hour ago, Judas Machabeus said:

the oral teaching stops

yes verbal teaching on the word continues- but the addition of new doctrine is heresy.

But that's not addressing the important issue that faces all people to which you did not respond --- if unfortune befell you and with out any preparation you were to die right now--- can you say with all confidence that you would go to heaven? and if you can say yes-- what do you base that on?

 

 

 

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Guest Judas Machabeus
1 hour ago, woundeddog said:

yes verbal teaching on the word continues- but the addition of new doctrine is heresy.

But that's not addressing the important issue that faces all people to which you did not respond --- if unfortune befell you and with out any preparation you were to die right now--- can you say with all confidence that you would go to heaven? and if you can say yes-- what do you base that on?

 

 

 

Did I not comment on this last night. I thought i did. 

 

Since you insist on an answer I will  oblige.

I do not believe in once saved always saved. 

I believe that once you are baptized, you are baptized into the body of Christ and are saved. I also believe that you have to co-operate with the grace in which God gives you and live according to the teachings of Jesus. If you reject him he will reject you. 

So by rejecting Christ (living a life of sin) I think you can loose your salvation. BUT you can restore your relationship by confessing your sins and asking for forgiveness and mercy and he will pour out both upon you. 

 

So so you claim that new doctrine is herasy. So can you show me the doctrine of sola scriptura was taught by Christs Church before the reformation. Or for that matter sola fide. 

You seem to dodge my questions.  You claimed that oral teaching ended with the death of the last apostle and the church went to bible alone. 

I demonstrated how that statement is not possible, so are you conceeedibg the point to me?? 

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I"m glad I"m not in this discussion.  

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1 hour ago, Judas Machabeus said:

so are you conceeedibg the point to me

actually no, but I am at work now so I will have to get back too you

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