Is the Falling Away a false teaching ?

[Revelation Man]

51 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

•  And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you."  Matthew 24:4

Good advice.

 

Whenever someone posts something like this I shake my head. The one still thinks the other is off kilter in his thinking and vise-versa right ? 

[missmuffet]

6 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

That was to others, I know you understand the Rapture in scriptures. But the fact remains, the KJV was the first translation to call it a falling away. And the Subject is the Rapture, no where is the condition of the Church even mentioned before this sentence. I agree there will be an EVIL that comes upon the earth, I do not see the true church as suffering such, but there will be many that claim to be of Christ who do not live the faith. We are just speaking about what this particular verse means. Seeing as how it meant Departing for 1400 years, I am going to stick with that, especially since the Church Departing from the Faith would have no effect on the Anti-Christ showing up, but the Church departing the earth would leave the door wide open unto him.  And the Subject is the Rapture in the very first verse. 

 

God Bless

I think we are going to see some difficult times before the rapture of the Church. Just read the news. I do not know how bad it will get but this is a walk in the park compared to the tribulation.

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

Whenever someone posts something like this I shake my head. The one still thinks the other is off kilter in his thinking and vise-versa right ? 

Maybe its not as apparent as I thought and should have offered an explanation.

The offense or stumbling block that Jesus is talking about in Matthew 24:10 is what?  Lets look at it again:

• Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.  At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.  Matthew 24:9-10

At the time that people are being hated by all nations because of the name of Jesus and being put to death, at that time many are snared.  Choosing to save their life rather than be delivered to tribulation causes them to sin, to stumble and fall away from the faith.  It very much pertains to apostasy.

σκανδαλίζω skandalízō, skan-dal-id'-zo; from G4625; to entrap, i.e. trip up (figuratively, stumble (transitively) or entice to sin, apostasy or displeasure):—(make to) offend.

[Bible_Gazer]

Isn't the tribulation the wrath of God on the unsaved.

When God pour out the different plaques on Egypt it didn't hurt God's people.

So it will be the same.   ???? 

[Revelation Man]

57 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

Maybe its not as apparent as I thought and should have offered an explanation.

The offense or stumbling block that Jesus is talking about in Matthew 24:10 is what?  Lets look at it again:

• Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.  At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.  Matthew 24:9-10

At the time that people are being hated by all nations because of the name of Jesus and being put to death, at that time many are snared.  Choosing to save their life rather than be delivered to tribulation causes them to sin, to stumble and fall away from the faith.  It very much pertains to apostasy.

σκανδαλίζω skandalízō, skan-dal-id'-zo; from G4625; to entrap, i.e. trip up (figuratively, stumble (transitively) or entice to sin, apostasy or displeasure):—(make to) offend.

Matthew 24 does not match up with the Tribulation per se, like many people insist. Lets go over it point by point. 

Matthew 24:8 (KEY POINT HERE) 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. { The Greek word used here is odin 5604, } it doesn't exactly mean Sorrows, though I guess a woman can be sorrowful during birth, but here is the actual meaning of the word ODIN 5604 = 1.) the pain of childbirth, travail pain, birth pangs....Akin to 3601 a pang or throe, especially of childbirth:—pain, sorrow, travail.

These are called what my friend ? Birth pangs or throes of birth. Meaning that these are signs that the end times are NEARING, just like birth pangs are a sign the Child is nearing to be born. So the "Sorrows" doesn't mean the End Times have started. They are signs the end time is Near, nothing more. We have to use proper translations or we get off kilter.

So lets go through this first part of Matthew brother and take it one or two verse at a time.

Matthew 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things ? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be ? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world ? {{ So Jesus tells the disciples about the Temples future destruction, then the disciples ask Jesus THREE QUESTIONS 1. When shall this happen ? 2. What will be the sign of your coming (back) ? 3. And when will the end of the World (end if the Age) be ? So lets dissect Jesus' answers below. }}

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. {{ So Jesus tells them, take heed there will be many false Christ' coming unto you. No doubt saying they were the real Messiah, since Christ in Greek means Messiah, they were not claiming to be Jesus but the true Messiah. You will hear of wars, BUT THE END IS NOT YET. }}

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. {{ Nations will fight each other, there will be famines, earthquakes, and pestilences, these are the beginning of BIRTH PANGS/THROES, or a Signal that the time is Nearing. So the Time is still not at hand, these are just Signs. So all of these people associate with the Seals are just wrong, TRANSLATIONS have to be correct. It is not Sorrows in essence, it is Birth Pangs. }}

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. {{ Jesus is speaking to them about their personal, future endeavors here in verse 9, most of the disciples were murdered/killed, then he transitions to like a 2000 year period in verses 10-13 and in my opinion tells the disciples what the Church will go through until the end Gets here in VERSE 14, he is telling them many will be offended, or betray the Faith, and hate one another (Catholics vs, Protestants for years HATED EACH OTHER) Many false prophets will arise, well we know know there are many cuckoo puffs out there now, and has always been a few of those throughout the ages no doubt, John Jones deceived many. And because SIN SHALL ABOUND (Getting closer to the end with each verse) many people will become hard hearted and Atheists/Cold Doubters. BUT.....All Christians that ENDURE TO THE END (Of their Lives) the same shall be saved. We have to run the race until the end, we have to endure in the Faith until the end of our lives, through all the turmoil, trials and troubles, we can not turn back to sin, we MUST ENDURE IN THE FAITH. }}

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. {{So the Clue is the END can not come until the Gospel has went to the Ends of the Earth, TV has made this come to pass, the Gospel has been preached unto all the world. Which means the END can now come, it could not have been the case 40 years ago, but it can be the case today. Jesus continues his teachings, lets look at a few of the other verses in context here. }}

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: {{ Jesus tells the Disciples that when the people living in Judea see the Abomination of Desolation spoken by Daniel they need to flee, this Abomination is going to be an Image of the Beast just as Rev. 13 says. And As Daniel 9:27 says when read/TRANSLATED properly. }}

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arisefalse Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. {{ We see here that the False Prophet and Anti-Christ or fake Christ is being spoke of here. This is when the Great Tribulation happens, at the END TIMES. So we are getting the:  WHEN THIS WILL HAPPEN HERE !!................First question is answered by Jesus. }}

Second question, what will be the Sign of thy Coming and the third question was when will the end of the Age be. Both questions Jesus answered at the same time, because of course, Jesus Second Coming is the End of the Age.

Matthew 24:25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

{{{ So Jesus answers by Saying I will come in the Clouds, out of the East, do not believe ANY LIE by any False Prophet or False Christ/Messiah. I will come (WITH US SAINTS) Immediately after the Tribulation when he Sun and Moon is Darkened (By all the Smoke of the Plagues no doubt) then shall the people of the Earth see Jesus coming back, and that is the End of the Age. }}}

Matthew 1-13 has nothing to do with the Tribulation nor the Seals. It just doesn't add up.

 

 

[Last Daze]

16 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Matthew 1-13 has nothing to do with the Tribulation nor the Seals. It just doesn't add up.

I know that that's your take on it.  Mine is different.  We go about reasoning things differently and there's no point in belaboring the issue.

I've come to realize over the years, and even more so recently, that there is an inherent danger in focusing on the timing of the rapture in relation to the great tribulation, and that is, letting our understanding affect our preparedness.  I used to think it primarily affected the "pre" camp by fostering complacency but the "post" camp also runs the risk of misconstruing their logical layout of end time events as being prepared for those events.

I'd dare to say that no one's eschatology is perfectly accurate which is okay since that's not a requirement, but we are told to be on the alert for His return.  The wise virgins knew Jesus and were consequently prepared for His return.  They were discerning because they were doers of the Word, not because of their eschatology.

While it's taken me much longer that it should have to rearrange my priorities, I can see that its significantly more beneficial to encourage each other to stay disconnected from the ways of this world than it is to wrangle over future events.  That type of spiritual discipline is what will give us the desire and discernment to endure until the trumpet of God sounds, whenever that is.

Eschatology has its place but its no substitute for preparedness.  Priorities.

 

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, Cletus said:

If you think the falling away is a false teaching just look around.  its already starting.  I believe there is still a ways to go before its run its course but just ask any pastor about declining church attendance and what they say the number one reason for people leaving a church is.  many of whom dont make it back to that church or go to another church.  immorality grows day by day. 

what the bible says is unfolding before our eyes. 

If Paul meant it is the Church Departing then by definition today's understanding of the passage would be wrong, would it not ? As I have stated, we know via Peter and Paul in Romans chapter one that in the final days men would become courser and more evil. 

 

But this was seen as a Departure for 1400-1500 years before the KJV came forth.

[PatrolMan]

We are in the process of falling away already. Just take a look around. Churches are losing people at an alarming rate here in the United States. Our churches are full of false teachings and doctrine. Yes, there is a falling away. Women at the pulpit gays at the pulpit and the unjust has more rights than Christians do. God help us all!

[Revelation Man]

1 hour ago, PatrolMan said:

We are in the process of falling away already. Just take a look around. Churches are losing people at an alarming rate here in the United States. Our churches are full of false teachings and doctrine. Yes, there is a falling away. Women at the pulpit gays at the pulpit and the unjust has more rights than Christians do. God help us all!

No one is saying the that Romans chapter one doesn't happen. Or that the culture doesn't get course and evil right before Jesus comes back. I am just saying, imho, this passage is referring to the Church being Raptured (Departing) and not a departing from the Faith. The SUBJECT is the Gathering together unto the Lord, the Subject in verse one is not the church getting evil in verse one. 

[seeking the lost]

On 9/15/2016 at 9:50 PM, Revelation Man said:

I do not think this has anything to do with a Falling Away. It is the Church Departing before the Anti-Christ is brought forth. The King James Bible changed the known understanding that has been around for 1500 years.

There is a huge difference between the two concepts of falling away and departing of the faithful.  If the word is departing it is departing from the faith and not departing of the faithful.  Revelation of the antichrist will be a revelation to the body of Christ.  It would be needless in my understanding to reveal this to the unbelievers.  That would be a revelation to unbelievers by divine revelation.