Genesis 6:1-4; The Sons of God ...

[Marilyn C]

On ‎20‎/‎09‎/‎2016 at 0:42 AM, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

 

This is a passage of scripture I've been interested in since I first became a born-again believer.  I stumbled on the website linked below while searching about something else.  The questions at the end of the topic answered by the author John Tors with the signature "Saved.by.Grace" are mine.  I found John Tors' article and website most interesting, although he hasn't convinced me that the Nephilim were not the result of a fallen angelic attempt at contaminating the bloodline of the future Messiah.

There are four sections of analysis.  The first section linked below can be used to link to the other three sections.

Truth in My Days: Genesis 6:1-4 Discussion

I believe a proper understanding of Scripture is essential to knowing God's will and purpose.  We must understand the Bible in context, and not make it conform to our preconceived ideas.

Hi Saved.One.by.Grace,

Quite straight forward. God the Father has life & He granted that the Son also have life in Himself.

`For as the Father has life in Himself so He granted the Son to have life in Himself.` (John 5: 26)

`And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being," The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.` (1 Cor. 15: 45)

God the Father NEVER gave angels/spirit beings the power to give life. They are ministering spirits..(Heb. 1: 14) Adam & Eve, (& mankind) were given the ability to procreate, (body) but ONLY God gives life.

`And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into His nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.` (Gen. 2: 7)

Marilyn. 

 

Edited December 11, 2016 by Marilyn C

[Quasar93]

8 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

I don't respond to demands by newbies looking not for the truth, but an argument.

 

Supposing you show me any so called demand I have made on you.  And FYI, I've been posting on Christian discussion forums for 16 years now and have one of my own in addition.   Let me know when you have something to contribute to the discussion!

 

Quasar93

[Quasar93]

There Were Giants in Those Days

"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown." Gen 6:4

In this section we take a look at some of the still available evidence that men of giant stature�even larger and more robust than �Neanderthal� man existed in the past. It�s not an area that evolutionists really deal with at all. In fact, science barely acknowledges that these giant footprints in rock or very large human bones even exist. It (very large, modern man) certainly does not fit in with evolutionary theory.

Christians generally believe that there were apes and there were men in the past. Evolutionists are not willing to accept that there existed in the past giant versions of modern man because there is no evolutionary explanation for their existence, just as there is no real attempt to explain giant versions of modern day animals.

(Left to Right, 6 foot Male, Goliath, "Gigantopithecus" and in comparison, Og, King of Bashan)

On the other hand, those who believe that God created the world know that according to the Bible, men of giant stature once walked the earth. The Bible quite matter-of-factly states that there were giants in those days (before the flood) and also after.

A Christian, believing as he does that Goliath actually existed, does not need to be concerned with the confused state of anthropology and its controversies, he might wonder if evidence of these races and countries of giant men have been found? The answer, without having to sort ape from proto-ape and alleged proto-human is yes..as we will continue to see.

Finally, before begin looking at some of the evidence that giants actually lived, we want to point out one glaring, obvious fake story prevalent on the net: The Kossuth Giants.

What the Bible Says About Giants

2 Samuel 21
In still another battle, which took place at Gath, there was a huge man with six fingers on each hand and six toes on each foot--twenty-four in all. He also was descended from Rapha. When he taunted Israel, Jonathan son of Shimeah, David's brother, killed him.

Numbers 13:33
And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

Deuteronomy 2:11
Which also were accounted giants, as the Anakims; but the Moabites called them Emims.

Deuteronomy 2:20
(That also was accounted a land of giants: giants dwelt therein in old time; and the Ammonites call them Zamzummims;

Deuteronomy 3:11
For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.

Deuteronomy 3:13
And the rest of Gilead, and all Bashan, being the kingdom of Og, gave I unto the half tribe of Manasseh; all the region of Argob, with all Bashan, which was called the land of giants.

Modern Polydactly

Click and drag photo to resize. Script from The Java Script Source

(Photo: an example of polydactly and a minor case of double rowed teeth)As we will see in looking at these snippets of evidence, six fingers and/or six toes and double rows of teeth are characteristics often associated with giants.

Click here for Larger view and additional examples

Click and drag photo to resize. Script from The Java Script Source

(Photos from Last Refuge.com)

"Near Braytown, on the headwaters of the Tennessee river, were found some remarkable footprints impressed in what is now solid rock. The tracks included those of a human heel ball thirteen inches wide!" The marks clearly showed that the fellow whose stride in that distant day turned to stone had six toes on each foot. Source: Stranger Than Science, by Frank Edwards

Deu 3:11 For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead [was] a bedstead of iron; [is] it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits [was] the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.

It doesn't make a big deal about them--no theological points about them except that God's people could defeat anyone.

Scripture states that Goliath was about 9 feet tall. Og, King of Bashan described above was thought to have been taller; his bed needed to be made of iron and was about 15 feet by 6 to 7 feet wide (literally, king sized). He was thought to be 10 to 12 feet tall and proportionate. A cubit is conservatively estimated to be approximately 20 inches.

Go to the following for the complete data and article:  http://www.s8int.com/giants1.html

See also:  http://www.snopes.com/photos/odd/giantman.asp

Quasar93

Edited December 11, 2016 by Quasar93

[Churchmouse]

On 12/9/2016 at 11:57 PM, Ezra said:

I'm sure that would be news to Noah and Moses (not to mention most Christians).

That kind of blew my mind as well. How could it be a flood when tit states that the Earth was without form, as of yet. That would seem to me that there was nothing to flood. In order for there to be a flood, there has to be something to flood, which ordinarily means dry ground. God didn't make the dry ground until the third day, If I'm not mistaken..

Genesis 1:2  And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

On 12/11/2016 at 1:18 AM, Marilyn C said:

Hi Saved.One.by.Grace,

Quite straight forward. God the Father has life & He granted that the Son also have life in Himself.

`For as the Father has life in Himself so He granted the Son to have life in Himself.` (John 5: 26)

Albert Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible

As the Father hath life - God is the source of all life. He is thence called the living God, in opposition to idols which have no life. Acts 14:15; “we preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities (idols) ‹unto the living God,‘” Joshua 3:10; 1 Samuel 17:26; Jeremiah 10:10. See also Isaiah 40:18-31.

In himself - This means that life in God, or existence, is not derived from any other being. Our life is derived from God. Genesis 2:7; God “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul” - that is, a living being. All other creatures derive their life from him. Psalm 104:30, Psalm 104:29; “thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created; thou takest away their breath, they die and return to their dust.” But God is underived. He always existed as he is. Psalm 90:2; “from everlasting to everlasting thou art God.” He is unchangeably the same, James 1:17. It cannot be said that he is “self-existent,” because that is an absurdity; no being can originate or create himself; but he is not dependent on any other for “life.” Of course, no being can take away his existence; and of course, also, no being can take away his happiness. He has “in himself” infinite sources of happiness, and no other being, no change in his universe can destroy that happiness.

So - In a manner like his. It corresponds to the first “as,” implying that one is the same as the other; life in the one is the “same,” and possessed in the same manner, as in the other.

Hath he given - This shows that the power or authority here spoken of was “given” or committed to the Lord Jesus. This evidently does not refer to the manner in which the second person of the Trinity exists, for the power and authority of which Christ here speaks is that which he exercises as “Mediator.” It is the power of raising the dead and judging the world. In regard to his divine nature, it is not affirmed here that it is in any manner derived; nor does the fact that God is said to have “given” him this power prove that he was inferior in his nature or that his existence was derived. For:

1. It has reference merely “to office.” As Mediator, he may be said to have been appointed by the Father.

2. Appointment to office does not prove that the one who is appointed is inferior in nature to him who appoints him. A son may be appointed to a particular work by a parent, and yet, in regard to talents and every other qualification, may be equal or superior to the father. He sustains the relation of a son, and in this relation there is an official inferiority. General Washington was not inferior in nature and talents to the men who commissioned him. He simply derived authority from them to do what he was otherwise fully “able” to do. So the Son, “as Mediator,” is subject to the Father; yet this proves nothing about his nature.

To have life - That is, the right or authority of imparting life to others, whether dead in their graves or in their sins.

In himself - There is much that is remarkable in this expression. It is in Him as it is in God. He has the control of it, and can exercise it as he will. The prophets and apostles are never represented as having such power in themselves. They were dependent; they performed miracles in the name of God and of Jesus Christ Acts 3:6; Acts 4:30; Acts 16:18; but Jesus did it by his own name, authority, and power. He had but to speak, and it was done, Mark 5:41; Luke 7:14; John 11:43. This wonderful commission he bore from God to raise up the dead as he pleased; to convert sinners when and where he chose; and finally to raise up all the dead, and pronounce on them an eternal doom according to the deeds done in the body. None could do this but he who had the power of creation - equal in omnipotence to the Father, and the power of searching all hearts - equal in omniscience to God.

---

Copyright Statement
These files are public domain.

Bibliography
Barnes, Albert. "Commentary on John 5:26". "Barnes' Notes on the New Testament". //www.studylight.org/commentaries/bnb/john-5.html. 1870.

On 12/11/2016 at 1:18 AM, Marilyn C said:

`And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being," The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.` (1 Cor. 15: 45)

John Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible

And so it is written,.... In Genesis 2:7

the first man Adam was made a living soul: in the Hebrew text it is, man, or Adam, became, or was made a living soul; that is, as the apostle says, "the first man Adam": he calls him, as the Jews^F1 frequently do, אדם הראשון, "the first man"; he was the first man that was made, and the first parent of mankind, and the head and representative of all his posterity, and so the first in time, causality and dignity; whose name was Adam, so called by God in the day he was created, because he was formed מן האדמה, "from the ground, or earth"; when God breathed life into the earthly mass, or lump; and being animated with a rational soul, it became an animal body, or a living creature; and so the apostle proves, from the first man that was upon earth, that there is a natural, or animal body; a body animated by a soul, and which was supported by eating and drinking, by sleep and rest; and was capable of dying, and should die, in case of sin; and which was the state of it in its first creation, whilst in innocence, and before the fall; and this is all he meant to prove by this Scripture; for what follows is not mentioned as therein written, or elsewhere, but as the apostle's own assertion:

the last Adam was made a quickening spirit: by "the last Adam" is meant Jesus Christ, called Adam, because he is really and truly a man, a partaker of the same flesh and blood as the rest of mankind; and because he is the antitype of the first man Adam, who was a figure of him that was to come; and therefore called Adam, for the same reason as he is called David and Solomon: he is said to be "the last", in distinction from the first Adam, with respect to him he stood, אחרון, last upon the earth, as in Job 19:25 to which passage some think the apostle here alludes; and because he appeared in the last days in the end of the world, and is the last that shall rise up as a common head and representative of the whole, or any part of mankind: now he is made "a quickening spirit"; which some understand of the Holy Spirit, which filled the human nature of Christ, raised him from the dead, and will quicken our mortal bodies at the last day; others of the divine nature of Christ, to which his flesh, or human nature, was united; and which gave life, rigour, and virtue, to all his actions and sufferings, as man; and by which he was quickened, when put to death in the flesh, and by which he will quicken others another day: though rather I think it is to be understood of his spiritual body, of his body, not as it was made of the virgin, for that was a natural, or an animal one; it was conceived and bred, and born as animal bodies are; it grew and increased, and was nourished with meat and drink, and sleep and rest; and was subject to infirmities, and to death itself, as our bodies be; but it is to be understood of it as raised from the dead, when it was made a spiritual body, for which reason it is called a "spirit": not that it was changed into a spirit, for it still remained flesh and blood; but because it was no more supported in an animal way; nor subject to those weaknesses that animal bodies are, but lives as spirits, or angels do; and a quickening one, not only because it has life itself, but because by virtue of the saints' union to it, as it subsists in the divine person of the Son of God, their bodies will be quickened at the last day, and made like unto it, spiritual bodies; also because he lives in his body as a spiritual one, they shall live in theirs as spiritual ones: and so the apostle shows, that there is a spiritual, as well as an animal body; that as the first man's body, even before the fall, was an animal or natural one; the last Adam's body upon his resurrection is a spiritual and life giving one, as the Syriac version renders it; so the Cabalistic writers^F2 speak of

"Adam; who is the holy and supreme, who rules over all, and gives spirit and life to all.'

---

Copyright Statement
The New John Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible Modernised and adapted for the computer by Larry Pierce of Online Bible. All Rightes Reserved, Larry Pierce, Winterbourne, Ontario.

A printed copy of this work can be ordered from: The Baptist Standard Bearer, 1 Iron Oaks Dr, Paris, AR, 72855

Bibliography
Gill, John. "Commentary on 1 Corinthians 15:45". "The New John Gill Exposition of the Entire Bible". //www.studylight.org/commentaries/geb/1-corinthians-15.html. 1999.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi Saved......

Some good thoughts there.

Did you want to comment on this part that I wrote previously?

quote -`God the Father NEVER gave angels/spirit beings the power to give life. They are ministering spirits..(Heb. 1: 14)`

The life is in the blood, which comes from the male. Angels do not have blood, therefore they cannot give life or procreate.

Marilyn.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Marilyn C

[SavedOnebyGrace]

10 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Saved......

Some good thoughts there.

Did you want to comment on this part that I wrote previously?

quote -`God the Father NEVER gave angels/spirit beings the power to give life. They are ministering spirits..(Heb. 1: 14)`

The life is in the blood, which comes from the male. Angels do not have blood, therefore they cannot give life or procreate.

Marilyn.

Your interpretation disagrees with Holy Scripture, viz. the subject of this thread, Genesis 6:1-4.  Since the New Testament is a fulfillment of the OT, the scripture you cite must have a different frame of reference.  Furthermore, your statement that I bolded is in error and could lead one to cult type beliefs.  The breath of God gave life to both Adam and Eve.  A dead person of either sex still has non-flowing blood in them.  It is the breath of God that gives life to the lowly and the esteemed.

Quote

Genesis 2:7

Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

Acts 17:25

nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things;

Genesis 1:30

and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food"; and it was so.

Genesis 6:17

"Behold, I, even I am bringing the flood of water upon the earth, to destroy all flesh in which is the breath of life, from under heaven; everything that is on the earth shall perish.

Job 27:3

For as long as life is in me, And the breath of God is in my nostrils,

Job 33:4

"The Spirit of God has made me, And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

Psalm 104:30

You send forth Your Spirit, they are created; And You renew the face of the ground.

Isaiah 42:5

Thus says God the LORD, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread out the earth and its offspring, Who gives breath to the people on it And spirit to those who walk in it,

Isaiah 57:16

"For I will not contend forever, Nor will I always be angry; For the spirit would grow faint before Me, And the breath of those whom I have made.

Jeremiah 38:16

But King Zedekiah swore to Jeremiah in secret saying, "As the LORD lives, who made this life for us, surely I will not put you to death nor will I give you over to the hand of these men who are seeking your life."

Revelation 11:11

But after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet; and great fear fell upon those who were watching them.

1 Kings 17:17

Now it came about after these things that the son of the woman, the mistress of the house, became sick; and his sickness was so severe that there was no breath left in him.

Job 34:14-15

"If He should determine to do so, If He should gather to Himself His spirit and His breath, All flesh would perish together, And man would return to dust.

Psalm 104:29

You hide Your face, they are dismayed; You take away their spirit, they expire And return to their dust.

Isaiah 40:7

The grass withers, the flower fades, When the breath of the LORD blows upon it; Surely the people are grass.

 

[Marilyn C]

5 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Your interpretation disagrees with Holy Scripture, viz. the subject of this thread, Genesis 6:1-4.  Since the New Testament is a fulfillment of the OT, the scripture you cite must have a different frame of reference.  Furthermore, your statement that I bolded is in error and could lead one to cult type beliefs.  The breath of God gave life to both Adam and Eve.  A dead person of either sex still has non-flowing blood in them.  It is the breath of God that gives life to the lowly and the esteemed.

 

Hi Saved....,

Now remember I also agree that the breath of life came from God. God also says concerning that `life,` -

`you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. Surely for your lifeblood I will require a reckoning,...` (Gen. 9: 4 & 5)

Thus we see as I said previously - 

The life is in the blood, which comes from the male. Angels do not have blood, therefore they cannot give life or procreate.

Marilyn.

[SavedOnebyGrace]

2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Saved....,

Now remember I also agree that the breath of life came from God. God also says concerning that `life,` -

`you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. Surely for your lifeblood I will require a reckoning,...` (Gen. 9: 4 & 5)

Thus we see as I said previously - 

The life is in the blood, which comes from the male. Angels do not have blood, therefore they cannot give life or procreate.

Marilyn.

We are at an impasse.  I disagree with your selective interpretation of Holy Scripture, and disregarding the Scriptures I quoted from.  We know blood carries oxygen through the bloodstream from the lungs.  God breathed into mankind and we live.  Oxygen is an essential to life, not blood, as I demonstrated above.  Marilyn, are you a Christian Scientist or Jehovah Witness per chance?

[Marilyn C]

2 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

We are at an impasse.  I disagree with your selective interpretation of Holy Scripture, and disregarding the Scriptures I quoted from.  We know blood carries oxygen through the bloodstream from the lungs.  God breathed into mankind and we live.  Oxygen is an essential to life, not blood, as I demonstrated above.  Marilyn, are you a Christian Scientist or Jehovah Witness per chance?

Hi Saved...

I`m a Christian believer, (Apostolic in beliefs). Yes we both agree that God breathed life into mankind. Great. The `blood` part is that the life is carried through the blood. It is not the blood as red & white cells etc God showed us that the blood carries the life & that is someone kills another & then the blood is spilt, that person is accountable for that.

`Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning;....` (Gen. 9: 5)

Marilyn.