Ezra Posted September 26, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.36 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted September 26, 2016 In another discussion, the authenticity of this verse has been questioned. The evidence shown below indicates that neither the Critical Greek texts, nor modern Bible versions, nor that Catholic Bible have raised any question about its authenticity. In fact all translations in every language have this verse. The significance of the verse should be obvious since it includes (1) the Great Commission, (2) the necessity of believer's baptism, (3) the necessity of making disciples, and (4) a revelation of the triune Godhead (where "the name" is singular, but there are three Divine Persons within that Name). TRADITIONAL GREEK TEXTS Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550 πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894 πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ Πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ Υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ Ἁγίου Πνεύματος· Greek Orthodox Church 1904 πορευθέντες μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ Πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ Υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου Πνεύματος, RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005 Πορευθέντες μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ Πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ Υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ Ἁγίου Πνεύματος· CRITICAL TEXTS Westcott and Hort 1881 πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος, Tischendorf 8th Edition πορευθέντες μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος, Nestle Greek New Testament 1904 πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ Πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ Υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ Ἁγίου Πνεύματος, REFORMATION BIBLES King James Bible Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Young's Literal Translation Having gone, then, disciple all the nations, (baptizing them -- to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, MODERN BIBLE VERSIONS English Revised Version Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost:American Standard Version Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:English Standard Version Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,New American Standard Bible "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,New International Version Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,Holman Christian Standard Bible Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, CATHOLIC BIBLE Douay-Rheims Bible Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Judas Machabeus Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Not sure what the point being made here is?? But I do enjoy my Logos bible app: Matthew 28:19 πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦπατρὸς καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος, πορευθέντες poreuthentes πορευθέντες poreuthentes go; travel; go out verb, aorist, passive, participle, plural, nominative, masculine CDWGTHB μαθητεύσατε mathēteusate μαθητεύσατε mathēteusate be a disciple verb, aorist, active, imperative, second person, plural CDWGTHB πάντα panta πάντα panta all; every adjective, accusative, plural, neuter CDWGTHB ἔθνη ethnē ἔθνη ethnē nation; people; Gentiles noun, accusative, plural, neuter CDWGTHB βαπτίζοντες baptizontes βαπτίζοντες baptizontes baptize verb, present, active, participle, plural, nominative, masculine CDWGTHB ὄνομα onoma ὄνομα onoma name noun, accusative, singular, neuter CDWGTHB πατρὸς patros πατρὸς patros father; Father noun, genitive, singular, masculine CDWGTHB υἱοῦ huiou υἱοῦ huiou son; Son noun, genitive, singular, masculine CDWGTHB ἁγίου hagiou ἁγίου hagiou holy; holy one adjective, genitive, singular, neuter CDWGTHB πνεύματος pneumatos πνεύματος pneumatos spirit; Spirit noun, genitive, singular, neuter CDWGTHB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Judas Machabeus Posted October 2, 2016 Share Posted October 2, 2016 Who is claiming that the verse is not authentic?? I've never heard of such a claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted October 2, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,824 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,753 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 2, 2016 Thank you for the good word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted October 2, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 306 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,130 Content Per Day: 4.64 Reputation: 27,806 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 2, 2016 Quote Impressive? Not really, and this is an excellent example of why textual critics will only give ground when the internal evidence alerts their noses. Conybeare was clearly unaware that quotation methods in antiquity were rather looser than they were even in 1902. Does Matthew 28:19 seems amiss? So does Phil. 2:9, which is also "quoted" above, though not 100% "accurately," to wit: God bestowed on him the name above every name, that in the name of Jesus every knee shall bow of things in heaven and on earth and under the earth... God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth... So before one gets too excited, it might be best to, say, do a comparison of how well Eusebius and others do their other quotes. As it is Conybeare admits that Eusebius did quote the passage "right" in three very late and "controversial" works (why they are "controversial" and how that particularly affects Matt. 28:19 is not stated, but another source claims that their authorship is disputed), which makes the evidence rather equivocal unless we beg the question of a conspiracy to begin with. Other than Eusebius, a document titled De Rebaptismate is cited, but it is not clear that it is alluding Matthew or one of the "name of Jesus" only verses, and so hardly constitutes any evidence. Origen is cited as doing this by Conybeare: http://www.tektonics.org/lp/matt2819.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted October 2, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.36 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 2, 2016 3 hours ago, kwikphilly said: http://www.tektonics.org/lp/matt2819.php Thanks, kwik. This helps people to see that Mt 28:19 was attacked for no good reason by those who reject the doctrine of the Trinity. But it still crops up from time to time. You will notice that some translations have "baptizing them INTO the name" instead of "in the name". While literally it is "baptizing them to (eis) the name", I believe "in the name" is more appropriate, and doctrinally sound. Also some churches practice "trine" immersion (which is three immersions), but that is not really what this teaches either, since it is "name" singular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted October 2, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 306 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,130 Content Per Day: 4.64 Reputation: 27,806 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 2, 2016 You're welcome my Brother,I thought it may help what you are saying & support that,it is true I agree 100%,you have certainly done your due diligence in Koine Greek & not simply looked up transliterations in a Strongs,( since it is "name" singular),,,,,it is all good but not quite enough to have a clear Understanding With love-in Christ,Kwik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Robert Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 12 hours ago, Ezra said: Thanks, kwik. This helps people to see that Mt 28:19 was attacked for no good reason by those who reject the doctrine of the Trinity. But it still crops up from time to time. You will notice that some translations have "baptizing them INTO the name" instead of "in the name". While literally it is "baptizing them to (eis) the name", I believe "in the name" is more appropriate, and doctrinally sound. Also some churches practice "trine" immersion (which is three immersions), but that is not really what this teaches either, since it is "name" singular. Yes, I really see no reason it should be attacked by anyone, save those that seek to destroy in believers' minds the concept of the Trinity. It just strikes me as a tactic of manipulation, when we should be accepting the word as it speaks and letting it inform and transform our minds and hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted October 3, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted October 3, 2016 Interesting discussion and information. The Great Commission is central to the identity of Christ and the Church. God bless, GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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