The Millennium

[ThomasRoane]

On 10/9/2016 at 6:07 PM, Cobalt1959 said:

 The 1st century church taught a literal 1000 year Millennium. 

I believe in a literal 1,000 year Millennium as well but would love to read the opinions of the early church.  Can you post a link to a source please?

[Serving]

On 30/09/2016 at 7:06 AM, missmuffet said:

Question: "What is the Millennial Kingdom, and should it be understood literally?"

Answer: The millennial kingdom is the title given to the 1000-year reign of Jesus Christ on the earth. Some seek to interpret the 1000 years in an allegorical manner. They understand the 1000 years as merely a figurative way of saying “a long period of time,” not a literal, physical reign of Jesus Christ on the earth. However, six times in Revelation 20:2-7, the millennial kingdom is specifically said to be 1000 years in length. If God wished to communicate “a long period of time,” He could have easily done so without explicitly and repeatedly mentioning an exact time frame.

The Bible tells us that when Christ returns to the earth He will establish Himself as king in Jerusalem, sitting on the throne of David (Luke 1:32–33). The unconditional covenants demand a literal, physical return of Christ to establish the kingdom. The Abrahamic Covenant promised Israel a land, a posterity and ruler, and a spiritual blessing (Genesis 12:1–3). The Palestinian Covenant promised Israel a restoration to the land and occupation of the land (Deuteronomy 30:1–10). The Davidic Covenant promised Israel a king from David’s line who would rule forever—giving the nation rest from all their enemies (2 Samuel 7:10–13).

At the second coming, these covenants will be fulfilled as Israel is re-gathered from the nations (Matthew 24:31), converted (Zechariah 12:10–14), and restored to the land under the rule of the Messiah, Jesus Christ. The Bible speaks of the conditions during the millennium as a perfect environment physically and spiritually. It will be a time of peace (Micah 4:2–4; Isaiah 32:17–18), joy (Isaiah 61:7, 10), and comfort (Isaiah 40:1–2). The Bible also tells us that only believers will enter the millennial kingdom. Because of this, it will be a time of obedience (Jeremiah 31:33), holiness (Isaiah 35:8), truth (Isaiah 65:16), and the knowledge of God (Isaiah 11:9, Habakkuk 2:14). Christ will rule as king (Isaiah 9:3–7; 11:1–10). Nobles and governors will also rule (Isaiah 32:1; Matthew 19:28), and Jerusalem will be the political center of the world (Zechariah 8:3).

Revelation 20:2-7 gives the precise time period of the millennial kingdom. Even without these scriptures, there are countless others that point to a literal reign of the Messiah on the earth. The fulfillment of many of God’s covenants and promises rests on a literal, physical, future kingdom. There is no solid basis for denying the literal interpretation of the millennial kingdom and its duration being 1000 years.

https://gotquestions.org/millennium.html

Excellent .. exactly as I understand it.

[Serving]

On 10/10/2016 at 6:07 AM, Cobalt1959 said:

You have to remember why the RCC changed this doctrine from what the 1st century church taught.  The 1st century church taught a literal 1000 year Millennium.  But the RCC was highly antisemitic.  The concept of prophecy in regards to Israel ultimately being redeemed to Christ as both a country and a people was unpalletable.  So the Millennium was spiritualized and the RCC took God's promises away from the Jews and transferred them to the church.  The church now "inherited" those promises so there was no need, within their doctrine, for a literal Millennium.  The Orthodox church, the Lutheran church, The Church of England, Presbyterian church, all have their basic roots within the RCC so their end-times position is amillennial.  The Reformation somewhat "fixed" the aberrant view that salvation was through works in these off-shoot denominations, but it did not fix their unbiblical eschatology doctrine.

Precisely, whether the mainstream churches like it or not, the RCC is their "mother" from whom they spawned, and many traditions of thought still linger .. unfortunately.

[Salty]

11 hours ago, Serving said:

Precisely, whether the mainstream churches like it or not, the RCC is their "mother" from whom they spawned, and many traditions of thought still linger .. unfortunately.

The actual history though is that some preached and accepted amillennialism starting in the 2nd century A.D., before... the establishing of a pope and RCC in Rome (like Clement, Origen. Justin Martyr (d.165 A.D.) who was a premillennialist mentions the amill doctrine in Dialogue With Trypho The Jew.) Those who rejected Apostle John's writings known as the Alogi were amillennialists.

So it appears that in the 2nd century A.D. there was a start to fall away through corruptions in the Church, which led to Amill ideas and rejection of Scripture penned by Apostle John. Nothing new I must say.

 

 

[Guest BacKaran]

Thanks for the info. My rcc family never heard of revelation although the family bible had that book in it.

Now that I'm out of the rcc, and never hearing any escathalogical messages, it makes sense to understand how the rcc controls it's members, tragic.

[missmuffet]

2 hours ago, BacKaran said:

Thanks for the info. My rcc family never heard of revelation although the family bible had that book in it.

Now that I'm out of the rcc, and never hearing any escathalogical messages, it makes sense to understand how the rcc controls it's members, tragic.

Most of the RCC deny the literal readings of the book of Revelation and spiritualize the book of Revelation. They are amillennial.

[Retrobyter]

On 9/29/2016 at 7:06 PM, missmuffet said:

Question: "What is the Millennial Kingdom, and should it be understood literally?"

Answer: The millennial kingdom is the title given to the 1000-year reign of Jesus Christ on the earth. Some seek to interpret the 1000 years in an allegorical manner. They understand the 1000 years as merely a figurative way of saying “a long period of time,” not a literal, physical reign of Jesus Christ on the earth. However, six times in Revelation 20:2-7, the millennial kingdom is specifically said to be 1000 years in length. If God wished to communicate “a long period of time,” He could have easily done so without explicitly and repeatedly mentioning an exact time frame.

The Bible tells us that when Christ returns to the earth He will establish Himself as king in Jerusalem, sitting on the throne of David (Luke 1:32–33). The unconditional covenants demand a literal, physical return of Christ to establish the kingdom. The Abrahamic Covenant promised Israel a land, a posterity and ruler, and a spiritual blessing (Genesis 12:1–3). The Palestinian Covenant promised Israel a restoration to the land and occupation of the land (Deuteronomy 30:1–10). The Davidic Covenant promised Israel a king from David’s line who would rule forever—giving the nation rest from all their enemies (2 Samuel 7:10–13).

At the second coming, these covenants will be fulfilled as Israel is re-gathered from the nations (Matthew 24:31), converted (Zechariah 12:10–14), and restored to the land under the rule of the Messiah, Jesus Christ. The Bible speaks of the conditions during the millennium as a perfect environment physically and spiritually. It will be a time of peace (Micah 4:2–4; Isaiah 32:17–18), joy (Isaiah 61:7, 10), and comfort (Isaiah 40:1–2). The Bible also tells us that only believers will enter the millennial kingdom. Because of this, it will be a time of obedience (Jeremiah 31:33), holiness (Isaiah 35:8), truth (Isaiah 65:16), and the knowledge of God (Isaiah 11:9, Habakkuk 2:14). Christ will rule as king (Isaiah 9:3–7; 11:1–10). Nobles and governors will also rule (Isaiah 32:1; Matthew 19:28), and Jerusalem will be the political center of the world (Zechariah 8:3).

Revelation 20:2-7 gives the precise time period of the millennial kingdom. Even without these scriptures, there are countless others that point to a literal reign of the Messiah on the earth. The fulfillment of many of God’s covenants and promises rests on a literal, physical, future kingdom. There is no solid basis for denying the literal interpretation of the millennial kingdom and its duration being 1000 years.

https://gotquestions.org/millennium.html

Shalom, missmuffet.

I like this answer ... for the most part. However, there are a few things in Scripture that are forgotten. First, one must remember not to mix the "Millennium" - the "Chilia Etee" - the "Thousand Years" - with the Messiah's Kingdom. They are NOT the same. Here's why:

Lukas quoted Gavri'el as saying,

Luke 1:30-33
30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS (Greek: Ieesous from Hebrew: Yeeshuwa`).
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
KJV

The thousand years are about the incarceration of haSatan in the Bottomless Pit:

Revelation 20:1-8
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
KJV

This passage is not describing how long the Messiah's Kingdom will last; it's describing how long haSatan (Hebrew for "the Enemy") is locked away!

This part, "It will be a time of peace (Micah 4:2–4; Isaiah 32:17–18), joy (Isaiah 61:7, 10), and comfort (Isaiah 40:1–2). The Bible also tells us that only believers will enter the millennial kingdom," is somewhat incorrect. First, it will be "a time of peace, joy, and comfort" for His Israel, but - oy! - not for everyone!

Psalm 2 is a Messianic psalm describing this time period. As I've done before, I'm adding only the colors and the quotation marks. There are some nested quotes, and I'm using purple (two different shades) for the words of God the Father, red for the words of the Messiah, Yeshua`, and blue for the words of the kings (heathen kings or non-Israeli kings, goyim). Green will be for regular narration. The nested quotes will appear as

" ... ' ... << ... >> ... ' ... ":

Psalm 2:1-12
1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his Anointed (Messiah), saying,
3 "Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us."
4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
6 "Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7 I will declare the decree: 'the LORD hath said unto me, <<Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.>>'
10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him."
KJV

This is talking about a UN meeting shortly after the Messiah has come to power. He will have taken His authority and, having had His war tribunal against the nations who participated in the battle for His Land, will be annexing nations and putting other nations in tribute to His nation, as He BECOMES "King of Kings!" Literally, He shall become a King over other kings, a World Emperor! However, this will take time to realize and complete:

Paul (Rav Sha'uwl) said,

1 Corinthians 15:20-28
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
KJV

Again, remaining aware of Hebraic foreshadowing, Paul tells us of THREE separate resurrections: First, (the zeroeth resurrection) "Christ (the Messiah) the firstfruits." Second, (the first resurrection) "they that are Christ's (those who belong to the Messiah) at his coming," and third, (the second resurrection) "then cometh the end."

So, putting this all in chronological order, we have...

(Already accomplished)

• Christ's Resurrection - He alone is the "firstfruits" or the "first gleanings from the field"

(Yet to be accomplished)

• His Coming and the First Resurrection, the Resurrection of His own
• He begins His reign, subduing His enemies and putting those enemies under His feet
• He continues to reign, putting down all rule and all authority and power
• He destroys death as His last enemy, in accord with the Second Resurrection
• Then, He delivers up the Kingdom to God, even His Father (the exception to the "all things")
• The Son also Himself shall be subject unto Him (the Father)
• God, the Father, is "all in all."

It's wrong to say, "only believers will enter the millennial kingdom." While it is true that "only believers will enter His Kingdom proper (Israel), " it is NOT true to think that "only believers will enter the time period known as the Millennium!" And, since His Kingdom (as a rock cut from a mountain or as a grain of mustard seed) shall grow (until it is a mountain itself or until it becomes a tree where birds can nest), and since the last enemy is not destroyed until all of His other enemies are subdued, THIS WILL ALL TAKE TIME TO ACCOMPLISH, in fact, it will take the WHOLE MILLENNIUM (A THOUSAND YEARS) TO ACHIEVE IT!

I hope this helps you and others.

Edited December 18, 2016 by Retrobyter
to correct "LORD" and "Lord" and add 2nd Resurrection

[Sing40King]

7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Revelations 20:1-3 1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more

If Satan is bound and can't decieve the nations how can there be unbelievers? The verses you mentioned refer to children born during the millenium. All unbelievers who had taken the mark of the beast were destroyed with the antichrist and the false prophet.

 

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, Sing40King said:

If Satan is bound and can't decieve the nations how can there be unbelievers? The verses you mentioned refer to children born during the millenium. All unbelievers who had taken the mark of the beast were destroyed with the antichrist and the false prophet.

Shalom, Sing40King.

That's a fair question, IF haSatan is responsible for human beings remaining unbelievers. However, I think that gives haSatan FAR too much credit! We human beings are capable of making up our own minds to become believers or not. HaSatan (Hebrew for "the Enemy") can make SUGGESTIONS and try to TRICK people into remaining in unbelief, but he cannot FORCE one to do so.

Also, you've made an assumption that all unbelievers will have taken the mark of the beast. That's not necessarily so. You see, all WITHIN HIS KINGDOM will be required to take the mark, but his kingdom, although widely extended, will NOT be all-encompassing. There will be others in the world that won't yet be called "believers" who just don't know the Messiah, yet!

The dividing of the sheep and the goats when the Messiah returns and holds His war tribunal after He has rescued His people is a dividing of NATIONS, not individuals.

Matthew 25:31-46
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
KJV

These "sheep" and "goats" are primarily nations that PARTICIPATED in the war! Notice that in this division, the criterion is not whether they were believers or not but rather how they treated his people! If they treated His brothers (and sisters) well, they would have a place in His empire. If they did not, they were resigned to their part with the Slanderer and his messengers.

Hope you can understand this.

[Sing40King]

22 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

The dividing of the sheep and the goats when the Messiah returns and holds His war tribunal after He has rescued His people is a dividing of NATIONS, not individuals.

 

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
KJV

Yes, but this happens at the end of the tribulation when He comes to set up his kingdom. Why would Christ set up His kingdom and bind satan if He was going to allow unbelievers to enter too? I do agree there will be unbelievers but from those that were born during the millenium and still have a fleshly nature and free will. However having unbelievers entering the millenium seems exactly the opposite of what the Bible says it will be.