America in Prophecy

[Remnantrob]

On 10/16/2016 at 9:35 AM, Dennis1209 said:

Greetings Everyone,

Again, the age old American question, is America in biblical prophecy anywhere? I know; Australia, Canada, Mexico etc. are not mentioned in end time eschatology either. But a person would think the world's only superpower (we lost that status) would be tucked somewhere in the Bible if we were relevant or played a role? So that leads me to think, somewhere along the line prior to the beginning of the tribulation, America becomes irrelevant or ceases to exist for one reason or another? There are multiple ways and means on how this could likely occur (nuclear strike, EMP, multiple terrorist attacks, economic collapse, severe natural disasters, combinations of, etc.).

Obviously if the U.S. were still a unified nation in existence during all this war and turmoil that is to come, we would not have the option to be neutral and standby idly, we would have to take sides and be a player.

There's conjecture and speculation that America could be referred to as "isles that dwell safely / securely" or the reference to a lion with eagle's wings being plucked (lion representing England and eagle's wings plucked representing the U.S.).

As a Christian I'm secure in the knowledge of my future and I shouldn't be all that concerned, but in the flesh as an American, I'm very curious as to our fate as a country. Perhaps the Lord is holding this information back as a mystery, or I'm not understanding the revelations? I know there are many here at Worthy that know their Bibles and prophecy much better than I. Does anyone want to conjecture or speculate (based on scripture) how or why the leading nation on earth is not mentioned?

I highly suspect that God's patience with America expires and America gets their long overdue judgement(s). Anyone studied this subject in detail and come to any conclusions or insight? 

EDIT: It's obvious the books that were "shut up" for a future generation that would have the understanding and knowledge are rapidly being opened. Who in this day doesn't understand much more than our grandfathers did on how our modern technologies easily fit biblical eschatology? No one in previous generations could have possibly understood; nuclear energy, computers, space travel, DNA, robotics, nano technology, three parent children, string theory, etc. We are getting much better insight into eschatology almost by the day. 

Revelation 13:11-18

¹¹ And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

¹² And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

¹³ And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

¹⁴ And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

¹⁵ And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

¹⁶ And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

¹⁷ And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

¹⁸ Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

 

First I would say work on figuring out who the first beast is.  After you figure out who it is and you see when it's power came to and end then you can look back in history around that time and see Revelation 13 starting to mention a "beast" coming up out of the earth. Notice Revelation 17:15 interprets what the waters are that the beasts that were previously described came out of:

Quote

¹⁵ And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

 

The beasts Daniel saw as well as the first beast John saw in Revelation 13, arose out of turbulent seas.  New nations usually arise by first overthrowing other nations, and then taking their place(i.e. babylon, medo-persia, greece, rome...etc) However, there was no other nation overturned(per se) in order to make room for the United states of America. Thus, it is a fitting symbol for this beast to arise out of the land.  

Horns in prophesy represent kings, kingdoms or governments(Dan.7:24)  But also represent power in Habakkuk 3:4:

Quote

⁴ And his brightness was as the light; he had horns coming out of his hand: and there was the hiding of his power.

In this case, they represent America's two governing principles: civil and religious liberty.  These two governing principles have also been labeled "republicanism"(a govt without a king) and "Protestantism"(a church without a pope).  Other nations since ancient times had taxed people to support a state religion.  Most had also oppressed religious dissidents.  But America established something entirely new: Freedom to worship as you wish without govt interference or control and with govt protection.  Absence of crowns signifies a republican form of govt., rather than a monarchy.  Lamb-like horns denote an innocent, young, non-oppressive, peace-loving and spiritual nation.  Jesus is referred to as a lamb 28 times in Revelation.  So this govt was trying to uphold His principles.  No other power on earth could possibly fit the characteristics and time slot of the lamb-horned beast, except America.

[Dennis1209]

Hi Salty,

Huge subject? You better believe it! Israel, the Jews and the land have a long, complex and interesting history indeed. What most secular people don't even consider, is how the Jews retained their individual and national identity through millennia; with the diaspora's and captivities they didn't graft in through marriage with the gentiles as the rest of the entire world. Throughout the recorded history of the world, no culture of people have been able to do that. That single fact alone should make nonbelievers stand up and take notice they are God's chosen people and God's Word is sure and true. I assume nonbelievers see it as chance, the same way we were created by 'chance' from warm pond scum, star dust and the 'big bang theory'.

There are multitudes of important details, information and insight missed and overlooked when a person just casually reads the Bible as they would read a newspaper, it's amazing. I don't care where in the Bible you're studying, there's always more there when you delve into it and dig deeper. The more I read and study the Bible, the more I'm in awe and amazed at the accuracy, depth and detail it contains when you truly study it. How anyone with intelligence can deny the Bible is not the inspired Word of God, either has not read it, or has sat down and read it with a disbelieving hardened heart?

Edited October 17, 2016 by Dennis1209

[Diaste]

10 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

 

The Bible speaks of the city Babylon literally being rebuilt and becoming a financial end time player. The United Nations wants out of New York city badly for a number of reasons (and good riddance). I've read commentaries and heard rumors that the city of Babylon would be the ideal location to set up their headquarters. An interesting item to keep an eye on to see if they are considering it?

 

 That's interesting as Babylon has been the center of some great empires in the bible. Empires that bear on the end of the age.

[Salty]

On 10/17/2016 at 3:24 PM, Dennis1209 said:

Hi Salty,

Huge subject? You better believe it! Israel, the Jews and the land have a long, complex and interesting history indeed. What most secular people don't even consider, is how the Jews retained their individual and national identity through millennia; with the diaspora's and captivities they didn't graft in through marriage with the gentiles as the rest of the entire world. Throughout the recorded history of the world, no culture of people have been able to do that. That single fact alone should make nonbelievers stand up and take notice they are God's chosen people and God's Word is sure and true. I assume nonbelievers see it as chance, the same way we were created by 'chance' from warm pond scum, star dust and the 'big bang theory'.

There are multitudes of important details, information and insight missed and overlooked when a person just casually reads the Bible as they would read a newspaper, it's amazing. I don't care where in the Bible you're studying, there's always more there when you delve into it and dig deeper. The more I read and study the Bible, the more I'm in awe and amazed at the accuracy, depth and detail it contains when you truly study it. How anyone with intelligence can deny the Bible is not the inspired Word of God, either has not read it, or has sat down and read it with a disbelieving hardened heart?

Indeed...

There is one line of thought God left us in His Word which settles this matter IMHO. It is the tracing of God's Birthright down through history, and understanding the Promises it contains. It began with Abraham, and it ended upon Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh. It involve great national wealth, blessings of the best lands (plenty of food), a great number of seed, ruling the gates (comings and goings) of their enemies, and of course care of The Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Just that last part of the Promises about The Gospel should offer a strong clue as to which peoples God was pointing to that would become the "multitude of nations" of Ephraim per Genesis 48. God's enemies understand this, so why doesn't His people understand it?

Ephraim with one of Judah ruling upon a throne in the West is fulfilled. And Ephraim's brother Manasseh was to become also "great" per Gen.48, and is the United States of America, the greatest nation that has ever existed on earth. Technically, there are 13 tribes of Israel, Manasseh representing the 13th tribe. The fact that the U.S. sprang from 13 colonies and has that as a symbol throughout its historical seals and artifacts is no coincidence.

 

[Guest BacKaran]

America is a gentile nation. It will perish as God had told us. When? We don't know but in Gods timing, it will be soon.

[Marilyn C]

On ‎18‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 0:52 AM, Dennis1209 said:

 

Ah no, I don't look for 'America' or the 'United States' in scripture   Agreed, it's very possible the United States could be one of the members of the 'ten horns' (kingdoms or federations) that three are taken out, or idly stand by.  

 

Hi Dennis1209,

Now I wasn`t referring to the 10 horns but the lion with eagle wings. God shows us origins. So we see here America as part of the British Empire. It was broken off, became independent, but it continues to be apart of that great Federation, the dominant part. And it will continue through into the millennium but not with its great power. You will notice that all the Federations of nations, (lion & eagle, bear & leopard) all are given an extension of life, whereas the terrifying one is dealt with.

regards, Marilyn.

[Salty]

On 10/24/2016 at 8:03 PM, BacKaran said:

America is a gentile nation. It will perish as God had told us. When? We don't know but in Gods timing, it will be soon.

The United States of America fulfills the Bible prophecy that Ephraim's brother, Manasseh, would also become "great". The tribe of Ephraim was the head ruling tribe over the rest of the ten northern tribe, and God made Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim king over the northern ten-tribed house of Israel.

The Genesis 48 prophecy was to the tribe of Ephraim that his seed would become "a multitude of nations". And their grandfather Jacob said let His name (Israel) be named upon the lads (Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh).

Gen 48:16-20
16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.

17 And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.

18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.

19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

20 And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.
KJV

 

This has been ignored long enough, simply because the Jews of the house of Judah are jealous of it, because the house of Judah long ago lost some of the Promises because of rebellion and rejection of Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ.

Yet all along, God had a PLAN for the 'nations' which the Jews could not mess with!

God in final set the inheritance of His Birthright blessings upon Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh (1 Chronicles 5). This specific "birthright" 1 Chronicles 5 points to is about all the Promises God made to the chosen seed through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob who was named Israel. Two differences were that Judah was to be the royal king ruler, and also have care of God's Law (1 Chronicles 5, Genesis 49:10). But the rest of God's Birthright went to Joseph's two sons Ephraim and Manasseh.

So WHERE did that phrase in red bold above get fulfilled?? And it had to be fulfilled by the 'seed' of Ephraim, an Israelite tribe.

It was of course fulfilled with the start of the western Christian nations of history. That is where God moved His Birthright blessings to, and it is also still where the tribe of Ephraim sits in rule over it all, in the West.

The Jews don't like it one bit either, as most of them completely refuse to admit this prophecy and fulfillment. It's a thorn in their side and they can't do anything about it, because no matter how hard they have tried to subdue the Christian nations, Jesus empowers other Gentile nations to spread The Gospel of Jesus Christ even more... in the world!

Even in Romans 9 when Apostle Paul was speaking to Roman Gentile believers on Christ, Paul quoted the end of the Hosea 1 Scripture which was originally written to and about the ten tribed house of Israel, where God said they were Lo-ami (not My people) because of their rebelling against Him, and then the time would come when He would say to them, 'You are the sons of the living God". Paul said that TO GENTILE believers in Rome!!! Who do you think was mixed there among those Gentile Romans??? The ten lost tribes of northern Israel, of course!

 

 

 

[HAZARD]

On ‎17‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 0:35 AM, Dennis1209 said:

Greetings Everyone,

Again, the age old American question, is America in biblical prophecy anywhere? I know; Australia, Canada, Mexico etc. are not mentioned in end time eschatology either. But a person would think the world's only superpower (we lost that status) would be tucked somewhere in the Bible if we were relevant or played a role? So that leads me to think, somewhere along the line prior to the beginning of the tribulation, America becomes irrelevant or ceases to exist for one reason or another? There are multiple ways and means on how this could likely occur (nuclear strike, EMP, multiple terrorist attacks, economic collapse, severe natural disasters, combinations of, etc.).

Obviously if the U.S. were still a unified nation in existence during all this war and turmoil that is to come, we would not have the option to be neutral and standby idly, we would have to take sides and be a player.

There's conjecture and speculation that America could be referred to as "isles that dwell safely / securely" or the reference to a lion with eagle's wings being plucked (lion representing England and eagle's wings plucked representing the U.S.).

As a Christian I'm secure in the knowledge of my future and I shouldn't be all that concerned, but in the flesh as an American, I'm very curious as to our fate as a country. Perhaps the Lord is holding this information back as a mystery, or I'm not understanding the revelations? I know there are many here at Worthy that know their Bibles and prophecy much better than I. Does anyone want to conjecture or speculate (based on scripture) how or why the leading nation on earth is not mentioned?

I highly suspect that God's patience with America expires and America gets their long overdue judgement(s). Anyone studied this subject in detail and come to any conclusions or insight? 

EDIT: It's obvious the books that were "shut up" for a future generation that would have the understanding and knowledge are rapidly being opened. Who in this day doesn't understand much more than our grandfathers did on how our modern technologies easily fit biblical eschatology? No one in previous generations could have possibly understood; nuclear energy, computers, space travel, DNA, robotics, nano technology, three parent children, string theory, etc. We are getting much better insight into eschatology almost by the day. 

Hi Dennis.

 The United States is not once definitely mentioned in prophecy. The very absence of any definite clear reference to America in prophecy is sufficient to prove this. It is true that some teach Isa. 18 refers to the United States, but this is not so, for it refers to a land "Which is beyond the rivers of Ethiopia," as it plainly says. There will have to be a lot of dirt moved in order for the United States to be moved to this land "beyond the rivers of Ethiopia." Other prophetical students find the United States in the beast of Rev. 13:11-18, but this refers to a man and not a country as is clear from the language of the passage and because he is called the "false prophet" who will be destroyed with the antichrist at the second coming of Christ (Rev.16:13-16; 19:20; 20:10). The first beast of Rev. 13 is a "man" according to verse 18 and in verse 11 the second beast is called "another," which, in the Greek, means another of the same kind. If the first is a man the second beast must also be symbolic of a man. The language of the passages concerning the two beasts proves that individuals are referred to in Rev.13. Still others say the United States is referred to in "the islands" mentioned in scripture, but this cannot be proved. This is mere human theory, so we must conclude that there is no direct reference to the United States in prophecy.  

[Dennis1209]

11 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Hi Dennis.

 The United States is not once definitely mentioned in prophecy. The very absence of any definite clear reference to America in prophecy is sufficient to prove this. It is true that some teach Isa. 18 refers to the United States, but this is not so, for it refers to a land "Which is beyond the rivers of Ethiopia," as it plainly says. There will have to be a lot of dirt moved in order for the United States to be moved to this land "beyond the rivers of Ethiopia." Other prophetical students find the United States in the beast of Rev. 13:11-18, but this refers to a man and not a country as is clear from the language of the passage and because he is called the "false prophet" who will be destroyed with the antichrist at the second coming of Christ (Rev.16:13-16; 19:20; 20:10). The first beast of Rev. 13 is a "man" according to verse 18 and in verse 11 the second beast is called "another," which, in the Greek, means another of the same kind. If the first is a man the second beast must also be symbolic of a man. The language of the passages concerning the two beasts proves that individuals are referred to in Rev.13. Still others say the United States is referred to in "the islands" mentioned in scripture, but this cannot be proved. This is mere human theory, so we must conclude that there is no direct reference to the United States in prophecy.  

Yep, I agree. I suspect the silence is all we are given and need to know. I'm an old guy, and the way things are now and the fast direction things are coming about... I just may have my answer to that question in my lifetime?

[HAZARD]

2 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

Yep, I agree. I suspect the silence is all we are given and need to know. I'm an old guy, and the way things are now and the fast direction things are coming about... I just may have my answer to that question in my lifetime?

Me too Dennis, I'm an old guy as well and it breaks my heart to see the way the world is spiralling out of control. The good side of all of this is, for the sake of the elect, Christ will return and put a stop to it all.

Matthew 24:22, And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.