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Under the law


Remnantrob

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17 hours ago, GoldenEagle said:

 

Most Christians today do not believe in adhering to a literal Sabbath day. Unfortunately, some also do not believe in the Trinity of God. But that's a topic for another discussion.

What I think you are talking about is a personal conviction that the Sabbath still applies today. The issue is the Bible doesn't pass on the Sabbath as a command to Christians. That may be in part due to the denomination of Christianity that you are part of? 7th Day Adventist right?

Interested to know how this Pentecostal church viewed the doctrine of speaking in tongues?

God bless,

GE

Hey GE,

Being an sda is a huge part of the reason why there is a personal conviction on the validity and necessity of the 4th commandment . I get that it's different but what I see when I meet a lot of non sda christians and that topic is brought up in a bible study is that they have either never heard it mentioned in church or were they were always curious about it but they usually got the we're not under he law answer which they didn't think made sense but it was a good enough answer . 

That pentecostal church kept inviting me back to "study" and somehow the topic always went to receiving the holy spirit and the evidence manifested in speaking in tongues. They were convinced that no one could be saved if you hadnt had that experience and so desperately wanted me to have it. Their pastor and his wife who was also a pastor dropped in on a study and boy did they get riled up, but even if we differed I think it was fruitful because it gave the members who came out to the study something to think about outside of what was normally taught. Now they had to go back and investigate what they believe and what I brought to the study.  I moved last year so I haven't been back there but I like going to bible studies.

 

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17 hours ago, GoldenEagle said:

 

Most Christians today do not believe in adhering to a literal Sabbath day. Unfortunately, some also do not believe in the Trinity of God. But that's a topic for another discussion.

What I think you are talking about is a personal conviction that the Sabbath still applies today. The issue is the Bible doesn't pass on the Sabbath as a command to Christians. That may be in part due to the denomination of Christianity that you are part of? 7th Day Adventist right?

Interested to know how this Pentecostal church viewed the doctrine of speaking in tongues?

God bless,

GE

Hey GE,

Being an sda is a huge part of the reason why there is a personal conviction on the validity and necessity of the 4th commandment . I get that it's different but what I see when I meet a lot of non sda christians and that topic is brought up in a bible study is that they have either never heard it mentioned in church or were they were always curious about it but they usually got the we're not under he law answer which they didn't think made sense but it was a good enough answer . 

That pentecostal church kept inviting me back to "study" and somehow the topic always went to receiving the holy spirit and the evidence manifested in speaking in tongues. They were convinced that no one could be saved if you hadnt had that experience and so desperately wanted me to have it. Their pastor and his wife who was also a pastor dropped in on a study and boy did they get riled up, but even if we differed I think it was fruitful because it gave the members who came out to the study something to think about outside of what was normally taught. Now they had to go back and investigate what they believe and what I brought to the study.  I moved last year so I haven't been back there but I like going to bible studies.

 

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There is a difference between the "law" and the commandments. The book of Deuteronomy is filled with the law of Moses that Jews attain to keep yet fail. It is not just the 10 commandments that must be kept. That is one of the reasons Jesus came..to free us from the law which was extremely difficult to keep..Job managed to keep it and some others did also.

Under grace we are free from the law. The commandments are what our judicial system used to be based. When we accept Jesus we are under grace and if we do sin an all do sin, we pray and are forgiven...even when born again.

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7 hours ago, Giller said:

Hi Remnantrob, is this pentecostal church, called the united pentecostals? because they believe that the baptism of the Holy Ghost with initial evidence of speaking in tongues saves you.

Also if it is the United Pentecostals, they also believe in the Jesus only doctrine.

The doctrine sounds the same but it was apostolic something. they said their faith can be traced back to the apostles . 

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Ro 6:14  For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

That is, law no longer controls one's destiny. For "there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,  because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death." Rom 8:1,2 Which is to say that sinning no longer affects one's salvation status, because of the grace of justification under the New Covenant. 

 

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On 11/8/2016 at 6:17 PM, Remnantrob said:

Being an sda is a huge part of the reason why there is a personal conviction on the validity and necessity of the 4th commandment . I get that it's different but what I see when I meet a lot of non sda christians and that topic is brought up in a bible study is that they have either never heard it mentioned in church or were they were always curious about it but they usually got the we're not under he law answer which they didn't think made sense but it was a good enough answer . 

 

Hi there! Out of interest, how does the sda reconcile its belief with Col 2:16 which says not to let anyone judge us by, among others, a Sabbath day? 

Btw, I agree with those who say that 'under the law' means we are not under the authority of the law in that the law no longer has power  to punish us. Yet it does not mean the law no longer applies to us; just that the authority over us is now our Lord Jesus. So it does not mean we can sin as we like. God cannot be mocked (Gal 6:7).

 

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On 11/15/2016 at 9:49 PM, ghtan said:

Hi there! Out of interest, how does the sda reconcile its belief with Col 2:16 which says not to let anyone judge us by, among others, a Sabbath day? 

Btw, I agree with those who say that 'under the law' means we are not under the authority of the law in that the law no longer has power  to punish us. Yet it does not mean the law no longer applies to us; just that the authority over us is now our Lord Jesus. So it does not mean we can sin as we like. God cannot be mocked (Gal 6:7).

 

Hey ghtan,

If you go to the thread called sabbath you will see a more thorough explanation of the sda interpretation of Colossians 2:16-17. But basically we separate the sabbath day from the sabbaths of the feast days because the latter deal with meat and drink offering and moons etc. the sabbath day doesn't mention any connection to the other mentioned topics in that scripture .  I would say that the law is still necessary to point the sinner to his need for a savior. once you choose to follow Christ and abide in him he places his law (10 commandments) your heart. We believe he then empowers you to keep the law. You didn't mention it but vs 14 of that same chapter is what us used to say that the law is abolished  but what would be the point in Jesus coming the first time to die if God was just going to abolish his Moral law. He could have just abolished it and not sent his son and just pronounced humanity forgiven some other way....imo. But because the law is the foundation of his kingdom he gave Jesus the power to keep it and can do the same for us if we believe .  that's my "short" answer.  I hope it was clear .  God bless you 

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On 11/17/2016 at 6:39 PM, Remnantrob said:

Hey ghtan,

If you go to the thread called sabbath you will see a more thorough explanation of the sda interpretation of Colossians 2:16-17. But basically we separate the sabbath day from the sabbaths of the feast days because the latter deal with meat and drink offering and moons etc. the sabbath day doesn't mention any connection to the other mentioned topics in that scripture .  I would say that the law is still necessary to point the sinner to his need for a savior. once you choose to follow Christ and abide in him he places his law (10 commandments) your heart. We believe he then empowers you to keep the law. You didn't mention it but vs 14 of that same chapter is what us used to say that the law is abolished  but what would be the point in Jesus coming the first time to die if God was just going to abolish his Moral law. He could have just abolished it and not sent his son and just pronounced humanity forgiven some other way....imo. But because the law is the foundation of his kingdom he gave Jesus the power to keep it and can do the same for us if we believe .  that's my "short" answer.  I hope it was clear .  God bless you 

Ok; thanks for info on Col 2:16. As for v 14, I don't think Paul meant that the OT Law no longer applies as a standard to follow but only that the Law's power over us is removed because "he forgave us all our sin" in the same verse. 

 

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The OC law brings death and the NC brings life.

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On 11/4/2016 at 10:48 PM, Giller said:

I totally agree with the notion that both under the old covenant and new, they were saved by grace through faith. Under the old they were placing their faith in the coming Christ (first coming), but under the covenant of grace, we look back to the cross of Christ.

Gal 3:10-13

(10)  For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

(11)  But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

(12)  And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

(13)  Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

 

The law is actually there to show us that all are guilty before him, and there is no life in the law, if we try to fulfill the law, or try to find life in the law, there won’t be any, all you will get is the judgment of God.

Now does that mean that we no longer have the moral law? No, we just do not try to get life through it, but we let it convict us, so we turn to our salvation which is Christ.

God chastises us, but Satan wants to condemn us.

We must always look to the cross, for therein is freedom from sin, and thank God for the blood of the lamb which sets us free from the condemnation of sin, thank God for our advocate.

Here are verses that I love.

 Gal 5:18

(18)  But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

 

Rom 13:8

(8)  Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

 

Rom 13:10

(10)  Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

The Love of God looks out for the genuine good of others, and if you love someone, you won’t steal from him, you won’t covet his stuff etc , etc, etc.

Rom 10:4

(4)  For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

 

It is not whether we obey the moral law or not, but rather through what means and by what source are we doing so.

If our faith is properly placed in Christ, and what he has done, it will produce the fruit of the Spirit, but if not, it will produce the works of the flesh.

One will produce bringing ourselves under law, and one will produce victory in Christ.

You can even obey the right thing, but through the wrong source.

If the works of the flesh in some form is being produced, in this case, we should check our faith in where it is placed, and it may be false doctrine that is producing this fruit, or even the source we are going by that may be producing it.

Either way, there is something wrong, something we are missing, and in truth we all miss it at times, and we all get prideful at times.

Let us continue to decrease so Christ may increase,

God is good.

 

Are we ever on the same page, Giller.  You stated everything I was about to post.  

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