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Animals used for sport

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On 11/12/2016 at 8:15 PM, other one said:

Fox hunting and bull fighting I would agree.....      pig wrestling...   I think the pigs enjoy that about as much as people do watching...   as for rodeo animals, outside the ring they are treated as royalty.    accidents do occasionally happen to the roping animals but it is rare....   I've been to rodeos all my live and only experienced one calf that was injured.   The people who own those animals don't want to see them hurt.

I've heard of rodeo bulls selling for a half million dollars....   all of them that are in the national rodeo's sell for over $10,000 each.

I just watched some pig wrestling on youtube and the pig did not seem to be enjoying itself.   It was just running around the pen trying to get away from the humans and squealing.   Can you post a youtube video of pig wrestling where the pig appears to you to be enjoying itself?   And that is great that people don’t want any damage done to their high value livestock, but do the animals have any moral value, or are they just commodities?    

Something has just occurred to me.  As far as morality, why would it matter to a Christian whether a pig or calf likes or dislikes what is happening to it?   In the Bible, Jesus Christ casts demons into a bunch of pigs who then run off a cliff and drown.   That would be scary and painful (water filling your lungs).   If the Bible says he can do no wrong, and he does this, then how can humans do anything wrong concerning animals?    

Another question: after the pigs drown, what happens to the demons?   Do they just leave the pigs’ bodies?   If so, then why does Jesus cast them into the pigs in the first place?  

On 11/13/2016 at 0:00 PM, kwikphilly said:

Blessings noone

   I don't think I could really add much to anything the others have said,I'm in complete agreement(especially Omegaman & other one)  I can add something though,as an animal trainer(many species) & as an equestrian who has participated in all different arenas (pardon the pun) of the industry,from dressage to gymkana,rodeo to flats,trotters & pacers  I can tell you that no animals are abused,they certainly enjoy it as much,if not more,than we do.....yes,they do,.,,,,,as far as te little calves in the roping events ....well,it's not that big a deal because at some time in their little youth the will get chased,roped,hog tied etc,,,,,,I can tell you this,at an event,no calf is used more than once in a morning event & maybe once more many hours later after rest......bull riding,they may be used a few times depending on how many bulls they have but never without rest in between & they are all treated VERY well,better than most folks house cat      With love-in Christ,Kwik

Outside of rodeos and rodeo training (which is where most of the calf injuries happen, I have read), why are calves roped and hog tied?   So they can receive medical treatment, but also to brand them, right?   In most places, if anyone roped, hog tied and branded a house cat they would be up on serious animal cruelty charges.   Also, do you reckon there can be any emotional/psychological damage to a calf roped and hog tied at lightning speed in a crowded arena?

On 11/13/2016 at 0:30 PM, markdohle said:

We are learning that there is more to what goes on in many species heads that were previously thought possible.  As we integrate this I believe it will change in how we treat certain animals. 

Cruelty to animals does affect those who participate in that kind of activity.  Dog fighting is evil, no way I can see it any other way.  Hunting is still necessary, deer for instance, they are everywhere.  We have hunters come in, bow and arrow, to help keep down the population.  We had a lot of car accidents on the rode that goes by our acreage: seventy in one year.   Also plants that were being eaten by the dear showed that they were starving, and they did look sickly.  The herd looks better, less accidents.

 

There is an overpopulation of dogs so couldn’t that make dog fighting necessary by the same logic, in order to reduce their numbers?   Or couldn’t the overpopulation of dogs make bow hunting them necessary for the same reason?   At least with dog fighting, which takes place in a confined area, a wounded dog can be killed or given medical treatment (the latter probably wouldn’t happen) but a wounded deer who gets away will most likely die a slow agonizing death.   Also, what exactly is evil about dog fighting?   Is it the piercing of the skin with sharp objects (the teeth of the other dog) or is it the fear/stress that the dogs experience while fighting?   Don’t we routinely “stab” animals with hooks and bullets and arrows and put them in situations that would cause them to become fearful?   What’s the difference?    

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Outside of rodeos and rodeo training (which is where most of the calf injuries happen, I have read), why are calves roped and hog tied?   So they can receive medical treatment, but also to brand them, right?   In most places, if anyone roped, hog tied and branded a house cat they would be up on serious animal cruelty charges.   Also, do you reckon there can be any emotional/psychological damage to a calf roped and hog tied at lightning speed in a crowded arena?

That's right my friend,,,,,,when you have 500 head,branding is the fastest & simplest way to identify animals from your herd on mutual pasture with hundreds of others,etc,,, If you ever took part you would understand that it is about 30 seconds of heat & that is that and with that tuff hide it really is no big deal,as a matter of fact,2 seconds later they are off running back to mom & have forgotten it all.....but why would anyone want to brand a cat-lol Yu usually don't have a hard time catching a cat,but go out into hundreds of acres & try calling a calf from its mom,let alone mom doesn't like the idea very much    

  I  over 40 years of rodeo I never saw a calf injured,sure I've heard of it but never w4itnessed any ...I've seen plenty of horses injured & they are either pout down humanely if the injury is irreparable or nurtured back to health for as long as it takes,as much money as it takes & with as much tlc as it takes,people should be treated so well.....those are the folks in my circuit,not local yokels or backyard ignorant animal owners that have no business having a pet snail,let alone horses,dogs,cats or any other animal.....I do know there is much cruelty & animal abuse in the world but not in the A rated circuits of professionals,at every track,every rodeo,gymkana or equestrian event you have State officials, & advocate for the Protection of animal welfare to ensure the safety & proper handling of these animals,it;s no joke & taken very seriously

   I've worked with some animals in zoos where the conditions were poor & not everyone employed was fit for the job,certainly not in my book & I reported them so that it would be addressed by the proper authorities,I've been to certain stabling facilities & have done the same & it resulted in the facility being closed down,the owners faced criminal charges, hefty fines & imprisonment.....if everyone would step up to the plate & do the same that would help but many people are in it for the money,sadly

   As far as dog fighting,that is cruelty beyond imagination,these animals are bred to fight & never see the light of day outside of a cage except to be antagonized for the "fight" for ,They never experience any kind of social interaction or touch.....dogs are pack animals,they are not designed to live alone,they are "social" creatures......I worked for "_____Guard Dog" which trained guard,attack,attack on command,protection & K9 to 11 & 12(also gun & riot control)    Much of this training involves"antagonizing" also and there are much better ways........What is evil about dog fighting is they are taking a social creature,a creature God made for us as a companion(for our pleasure ) ,isolating them,,abusing them,neglecting them & depriving them of everything they were born to be to turn them into a fighting machine for sheer profit(imo,that is wicked)

   Hunting,for sport? My suggestion is go hand to hand if you want to hunt for sport.....is it really skillful to look through a scope & pull the trigger for a stuffed head on your wall,pretty grotesque if you ask me    And for the ones like enjoy venison stew...well,I don't have much to say about that,hunting for food would be just fine if that was the only means of survival but it isn't & we destroyed all the land that these animals population has to be controlled,hunting season supposedly keep that in order......I would much prefer the animals be relocated when overpopulated or some other way........I just don't see any great skill in sneaking up on an animal & killing it as it stops for a drink etc.....ugggh,what can I say?The more relaxed an animal when it gets shot or stabbed or whatever,the more tender the meat,isn't that disgusting? Like the babies(young calves) that hang from straps so their little hooves never touch the ground which would strain their muscles & the veal is less tender........makes me sick  Thev worst experience I ever had in my entire life was visiting a friends pig farm,for the sale of pork,slaughterhouse...talk about abuse!!!! The poor things scream bloody murder & are terrified packed in like sardines & poked & prodded all the way to the slaughter

   I best stop talking,I'm getting worked up & I think off Topic.......Oh & "fox hunting",nothing nice about it,I was blooded at age 7 or 8,my first "hunt"....it is not very "sporting"...poor little things don't stand a chance & yes,they are absolutely terrified for quite some time,it is gruesome & inhumane..........I didn't know any better at that time but I frown upon it now,I used to go rabbit hunting as well when I was very little....the Italians enjoy rabbit very much,we were far from starving or hunting out of necessity,it makes me sick to think about it,I was 5 years old & didn't understand life & death yet.....shortly after I understood exactly what we were doing & I never shot another animal

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13 hours ago, noone said:

I just watched some pig wrestling on youtube and the pig did not seem to be enjoying itself.  he difference?    

Well,  I have wrestled some pigs in my early life and on the farm they really seemed to enjoy it.....   I've had them come up to us in the pins and make movements to dare you to try and catch them.......    pigs are really smarter than most people give them credit for.....   

They are pretty tasty too....   and when you are growing up on a farm, you learn early not to name your animals that you intend to eat....

anyway   the pig thing seemed fun for us both at the time....   those are usually younger pigs.....   you don't want to get in the pin with an old hog or especially one in the wild for there is little wrestling going on there for they will literally eat you.

 

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13 hours ago, noone said:

er question: after the pigs drown, what happens to the demons?   Do they just leave the pigs’ bodies? 

Yes, they can move about quickly in water and get away from Jesus quickly....   I've always found it interesting why he didn't send them to the abyss.   May be one of the questions I will ask if given the chance.    

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On 11/14/2016 at 4:00 AM, kwikphilly said:

as an equestrian who has participated in all different arenas (pardon the pun) of the industry,from dressage 

That just cracked me up kwik, because as an Equestrian who competed in Dressage and Eventing myself, I always appreciate a bit of horsey humour. :D

 

On a more serious note, because of my love of horses, I loathe jumps racing where a lot of horses die on the track or even if they do make it to around retirement age at 5 (just when they're adults), they are destroyed and made into dog food as 'wastage', and in Australia alone last year there were 18, 000 thoroughbreds killed from off the track.

I also loathe dog racing because of the way they train the animals to chase a rabbit, it's called 'blooding' and I won't go into details because it's truly horrific.

I think since we were given dominion in the Bible over all animals on land and in the sea, that gives us a certain amount of responsibility toward them. Humanely kill them for food or use them as work partners, but if it causes the animal pain or distress, then it's not on.

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Blessings Emdie

   LOL,glad you liked the "horsey humor" ...yeah,we horse folks are a bit different,huh?   I agree with everything you said Sis    60 years have gone by & I've seen a lot,the worst & the best and somethings I wish I'd never seen but you become very aware of what some folks w4ill do for a buck(another pun?).....

Quote
Job 12:7
 "But now ask the beasts, and let them teach you; And the birds of the heavens, and let them tell you.
Psalm 50:10-11
"For every beast of the forest is Mine, The cattle on a thousand hills. "I know every bird of the mountains, And everything that moves in the field is Mine.
Proverbs 12:10
 A righteous man has regard for the life of his animal, But even the compassion of the wicked is cruel.
Genesis 1:26
 Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
"Look at the birds of the air, that they do not sow, nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not worth much more than they? "And who of you by being worried can add a single hour to his life? "And why are you worried about clothing? Observe how the lilies of the field grow; they do not toil nor do they spin, read more.
Isaiah 40:11
 Like a shepherd He will tend His flock, In His arm He will gather the lambs And carry them in His bosom; He will gently lead the nursing ewes.

Deuteronomy 22:6-7 “If you come across a bird’s nest in any tree or on the ground, with young ones or eggs and the mother sitting on the young or on the eggs, you shall not take the mother with the young. You shall let the mother go, but the young you may take for yourself, that it may go well with you, and that you may live long.”

Luke 12:6 “Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God.”

Obviously all Gods creature are precious to Him & should be important to us as well......they have been entrusted to our care                        Love<Kwik

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14 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

Blessings Emdie

   LOL,glad you liked the "horsey humor" ...yeah,we horse folks are a bit different,huh?   I agree with everything you said Sis    60 years have gone by & I've seen a lot,the worst & the best and somethings I wish I'd never seen but you become very aware of what some folks w4ill do for a buck(another pun?).....

Obviously all Gods creature are precious to Him & should be important to us as well......they have been entrusted to our care                        Love<Kwik

kwik you make me laugh, you can come round for dinner any day of the week (but it's a long swim lol). 

God Bless,

Emily :horse:

Please note this is not an actual picture of me, I never rode Western. :D

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Ah,thanks Sis......I was just noticing your fantastic "seat"(incredible with so little "leg"),fantastic center of gravity & it is a good thing you made me aware that it is not actually you!

   I'm not a strong swimmer(best I fly) but if I do get over there in 2017, I (with hubby)will take you up on the offer .....the same goes for you my Sister if you find South Florida on the itinerary any given time!!!!!!:emot-heartbeat:

 

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On 11/16/2016 at 8:51 AM, kwikphilly said:

Obviously all Gods creature are precious to Him & should be important to us as well......they have been entrusted to our care                        Love<Kwik

Re: Proverbs 12:10, how can you say you have regard for the life of an animal if you cast demons into it or kill it, such as Jesus casting demons into pigs or ordering his disciples to prepare the Passover (which presumably involves them killing a lamb)?  

Edited by noone

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21 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

Ah,thanks Sis......I was just noticing your fantastic "seat"(incredible with so little "leg"),fantastic center of gravity & it is a good thing you made me aware that it is not actually you!

   I'm not a strong swimmer(best I fly) but if I do get over there in 2017, I (with hubby)will take you up on the offer .....the same goes for you my Sister if you find South Florida on the itinerary any given time!!!!!!:emot-heartbeat:

 

unnamed.jpg

 I can't quite make it out, is that a hackamore on your lovely horse? I never used one, but I would have to save my horse's mouth. I used French snaffles mostly as the normal snaffle can end up twisting in the horse's mouth, and they're so popular here in Pony Clubs where they hang on to a horse's mouth for dear life! Dear me, this is in danger of turning into a real horsey post!

My photos are packed away in storage but I'll be getting them out in a week or two, so if I find an appropriate pic I will send it to you.

Thanks kwik, both you and your husband would always be welcome in my home, anytime, so please do let me know if you happen to make it over here to Melbourne, and I will be happy to make you poached eggs and Vegemite toast (I now have a spare bedroom too). :) 

:emot-heartbeat: Emily

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