WailingWall Posted November 17, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 458 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/25/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, missmuffet said: I have posted all that I know. Go to Scripture and get your answers in the Holy Bible. OK. The reason i asked about the resurrections is because what i found in Zeke 37 1THES.4 [13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and THE DEAD IN CHRIST SHALL RISE FIRST:[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR: AND SO SHALL WE EVER BE WITH THE LORD.[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words. When 1Thes.4 takes place, what really happens? The rapturist would have you to believe we fly off to heaven. What do the scriptures say? Keep in mind that many Rapturist claim youll find nothing of the so called rapture in the book of the prophets {the old testament} but.... AMOS 3 [7] Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. Surely thats not true EZEK.37 [12] Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I WILL OPEN YOUR GRAVES, AND CAUSE YOU TO COME UP OUT OF YOUR GRAVES, and bring you into the land of Israel. [13] And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, Theres THE DEAD IN CHRIST who rise first (1Thes.4). The first resurrection. But..... there not headin for heaven. [21] And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: Its the gathering of Gods people, THOSE WHO ARE ALIVE AT HIS COMING. The gathering will be done in the twinkling of an eye. Not by public transit. And were all headin for the land of Israel as promised in the Word. [24] And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. [25] And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. One shepherd. [26] Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will SET MY SANCTUARY IN THE MIDST OF THEM FOR EVERMORE. [27] MY TABERNACLE ALSO SHALL BE WITH THEM: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Verses 26 and 27. “And so shall we ever be with the Lord” {1Thes.4 v17}. Its quite obvious that 1Thes.4 and Ezek.37 are speaking of the same event. No so called rapture. But the gathering of Gods people to the kingdom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted November 17, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted November 17, 2016 2 hours ago, WailingWall said: Thing is, i cant find where that is actually written. This is the problem with a lot of Christians. They believe the Bible is a textbook on systematic theology, and that there is no room for using one's intellect and drawing conclusions. Well since the Lord descends from Heaven, where else would He go except back to Heaven with all the saints? Also, using a mishmash of Scriptures to understand the truth is not how it works. Context does mean something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrobyter Posted November 18, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,574 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 2,440 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/28/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/28/1957 Share Posted November 18, 2016 (edited) 6 hours ago, missmuffet said: 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. We shall be with the Lord. Where do you think the Lord is if not in heaven? Shalom, missmuffet. WHICH "Lord" are you talking about? We should be talking about "Master" Yeshua` (Jesus), right? Well, we just read "the Lord Himself will descend FROM HEAVEN with a shout...." He won't be "in heaven" at that time! He will be back HERE ON EARTH! Edited November 18, 2016 by Retrobyter to emphasize portions of this post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted November 18, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.82 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted November 18, 2016 13 minutes ago, Retrobyter said: Shalom, missmuffet. WHICH "Lord" are you talking about? We should be talking about "Master" Yeshua` (Jesus), right? Well, we just read "the Lord Himself will descend FROM HEAVEN with a shout...." He won't be "in heaven" at that time! He will be back HERE ON EARTH! I am done with this thread. Goodbye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrobyter Posted November 18, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,574 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 2,440 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/28/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/28/1957 Share Posted November 18, 2016 5 hours ago, Marilyn C said: Hi WailingWall, A very, very good & important question, & one that needs to be answered scripturally. `To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with me on my throne, as I overcame & sat down with my Father on His throne.` (3: 21) So we see that the Body of Christ, the overcomers will be with Christ on His throne - ie with His authority. Next question is obviously - `Where is Christ`s throne?` regards, Marilyn. Shalom, Marilyn. At what point in time? If you're talking about in the distant future, after the Millennium, it will be in the New Jerusalem. If you're talking about during the Millennium, it will be HERE ON THIS EARTH IN JERUSALEM! If you're talking about now, it doesn't exist, yet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retrobyter Posted November 18, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,574 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 2,440 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/28/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/28/1957 Share Posted November 18, 2016 14 minutes ago, missmuffet said: I am done with this thread. Goodbye Shalom, missmuffet. Do I detect a yellow streak, OR are you too ingrained with your own little theological point of view that you're saying, "Don't confuse me with the facts"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Robert Posted November 18, 2016 Share Posted November 18, 2016 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Retrobyter said: Shalom, missmuffet. WHICH "Lord" are you talking about? We should be talking about "Master" Yeshua` (Jesus), right? Well, we just read "the Lord Himself will descend FROM HEAVEN with a shout...." He won't be "in heaven" at that time! He will be back HERE ON EARTH! Scripture doesn't say that the Lord will land on Earth at that point, Retrobyter. And if He's coming from heaven, He isn't coming from the Earth. The only time Scripture says Jesus returns to the Earth is at Armageddon (not at the Rapture). Scripture also says: "Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also. And you know the way where I am going.” Thomas said to Him, “Lord, we do not know where You are going, how do we know the way?” Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." (John 14:1-6, NASB, emphasis mine) Missmuffet is correct that we will be with the Lord, as promised in Scripture. And nowhere in Scripture does it say that the Lord would prepare a separate place for the apostles and the rest of the Church. Not to mention the Father is not going to be on Earth until the Earth is made new as Revelation describes. On a side note: I really see no reason why the Rapture, or the fact that the Church escapes the Tribulation, is so offensive to some. Darby and McDonnel were not the first to come up with it; a sermon called "Pseudo-Ephraim" demonstrates that the Early Church did indeed believe in a Pre-Trib rapture. If we want to know where the other versions came from, Augustine and his allegorical method of interpreting Scripture are part of the genesis of those theories. Something to think about, although I'm sure it won't change the minds of folks. But regardless, I'm done in this thread. BTW: 16 minutes ago, Retrobyter said: Shalom, missmuffet. Do I detect a yellow streak, OR are you too ingrained with your own little theological point of view that you're saying, "Don't confuse me with the facts"? This is a personal attack and has been reported. you should know better. Robert out. Edited November 18, 2016 by Robert mispelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted November 18, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,194 Content Per Day: 3.50 Reputation: 8,493 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted November 18, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, WailingWall said: Hi Marilyn. Nice to meet ya. Matthew 25:31-34 (KJV) 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Its when Jesus sets up His kingdom on earth Hi WailingWall, Good to see the scripture written out. So, yes we see that the Lord is sitting in judgment upon the nations. So we need to see when does He receive that authority to judge? and of course, where did He receive that authority? regards, Marilyn. Edited November 18, 2016 by Marilyn C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_S Posted November 18, 2016 Group: Servant Followers: 25 Topic Count: 275 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 5,208 Content Per Day: 1.00 Reputation: 1,893 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/02/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted November 18, 2016 49 minutes ago, Retrobyter said: Shalom, missmuffet. Do I detect a yellow streak, OR are you too ingrained with your own little theological point of view that you're saying, "Don't confuse me with the facts"? Retrobyter has been banned from the topic and will be issued a warning point for the above statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WailingWall Posted November 18, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 458 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 329 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/25/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 18, 2016 16 hours ago, Ezra said: This is the problem with a lot of Christians. They believe the Bible is a textbook on systematic theology, and that there is no room for using one's intellect and drawing conclusions. Yeah Ezra 2 Peter 1:19-20 (KJV) 19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. guilty as charged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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