12 Steps that Show Christianity is True

[Apologetics Evangelism Guy]

12 Steps that Show Christianity is True

Here's a Twelve Step argument for the Truth of Christianity. This is adapted from an Apologetics workbook by Norman Geisler and Frank Turek.

1. Truth about reality is knowable.

2. The opposite of true is false.

3. It is true that a theistic God exits.

4. If God exists, then miracles are possible.

5. Miracles can be used to confirm a message from God (i.e., as an act of God to confirm a word from God).

6. The New Testament is historically reliable.

7. The New Testament says Jesus claimed to be God.

8. Jesus' claim to be God was miraculously confirmed by"

   1. His fulfillment of many prophecies about Himself;

   2. His sinless and miraculous life;

   3. His prediction and accomplishment of His resurrection from the dead.

9. Therefore, Jesus is God.

10. Whatever Jesus (who is God) teaches is true.

11. Jesus taught that the Bible is the Word of God.

12. Therefore, it is true that the Bible is the Word of God (and anything opposed to it is false).

I will deal with each point in my Christian Apologetics podcast, Apologetics Evangelism.

You can listen to my apologetics podcast on iTunes by clicking here. Or, you can listen on Podbean, my podcast website.

[noone]

1 hour ago, Apologetics Evangelism Guy said:

It is true that a theistic God exits.

This is where you lose me.   Before you say “a theistic God exists”, you already assume that you exist and that your reader or listener exists.   I do not accept that you or I exist.  There are certain collections of matter which we would describe as “our bodies” but the self or individual identity is merely a story or fictional entity which we slowly come to believe in during toddlerhood and which we may forget again someday due to dementia, while the organisms that are “our” bodies could still be alive.   Since you and I are inventions of the mind, so are deities.   All that there really is is reality (consciousness) interacting with itself.   All distinctions, such as this or that, you or me, man or deity, exist in thought only.   That which is prior to any thought being thought is what really exists, and it is already everything.           

[enoob57]

1 hour ago, noone said:

This is where you lose me.   Before you say “a theistic God exists”, you already assume that you exist and that your reader or listener exists.   I do not accept that you or I exist.  There are certain collections of matter which we would describe as “our bodies” but the self or individual identity is merely a story or fictional entity which we slowly come to believe in during toddlerhood and which we may forget again someday due to dementia, while the organisms that are “our” bodies could still be alive.   Since you and I are inventions of the mind, so are deities.   All that there really is is reality (consciousness) interacting with itself.   All distinctions, such as this or that, you or me, man or deity, exist in thought only.   That which is prior to any thought being thought is what really exists, and it is already everything.           

this is what the word drivel was designed for  

[noone]

11 minutes ago, Yowm said:

This is where you lose me.

Whose inventions?

 

Humanity's collectively and also we are each changing our own individual self-image daily.   To use language, you have to make distinctions, which are how the mind artificially divides and labels reality, which is itself a seamless, indivisible whole.   So a more accurate but also more awkward answer would be that they are no one's (or every thing's) inventions.   Thoughts happen, inventions are made, but they are made by no one, just like the rest of the world.   When a worm digs a tunnel, the tunnel is dug by no one.   There is no self-image there.   When a cloud forms, it is formed by no one, etc.   We can temporarily give a "self" to a worm when talking about it, but the self is not anything that exists in the worm or us, apart from thoughts about it, which are essentially had by no one.  

[Ezra]

2 hours ago, noone said:

All distinctions, such as this or that, you or me, man or deity, exist in thought only.   That which is prior to any thought being thought is what really exists, and it is already everything.  

Where did you come up with this nonsense? 

[FresnoJoe]

4 hours ago, noone said:

I do not accept that you or I exist.... 

Fool Oneself As One Might

“But they say, ‘That is in vain! We will follow our own plans, and will every one act according to the stubbornness of his evil heart.’ Jeremiah 18:12 (English Standard Version)

A Day Of Reckoning Is Coming As Sure As The Night

It is written: "'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will acknowledge God.'" Romans 14:11 (New International Version)

And There Is Only One Way

And anyone who believes in God's Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn't obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God's angry judgment." John 3:16 (New Living Translation)

To The Light

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. John 14:6 (Berean Study Bible)

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 (King James Bible)

Love, Your Brother Joe

~

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160 (King James Bible)

The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable.

Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you.

It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword and the Christian’s charter. Here too, Heaven is opened and the gates of Hell disclosed.

Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully.  It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure.

It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered forever. It involves the highest responsibility, rewards the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.

From The Inside Of My Gideon New Testament

[noone]

12 hours ago, Yowm said:

In the non fantasy/non imaginative world, fulfilled prophecies and bodily resurrections have an objective meaning outside ourselves.

If I believed that the Bible is true history, then I would believe that a deity was actually involved in those historical events, in the same way that I believe George Washington was involved in the American Revolution.   But I still would not believe in separation, or that “God” is anything other than you, me and everything else, because all distinctions are only artificial overlays on reality.

[FresnoJoe]

42 minutes ago, noone said:

If I believed that the Bible is true history....
then I would believe that a deity was actually involved in those historical events....

But I still would not believe in separation, or that “God” is anything other than you, me and everything else....
because all distinctions are only artificial overlays on reality....

If One Believed Every Word Of The Bible Is Truth

All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal. Psalms 119:160 (New International Version)

Then One Would Know Jesus

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world has been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: Ephesians 3:9 (American King James Version)

Is LORD

The LORD merely spoke, and the heavens were created. He breathed the word, and all the stars were born. Psalms 33:6 (New Living Translation)

~

If One Believed He And Everything Is God

You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.’

But you are brought down to Sheol, to the far reaches of the pit. Isaiah 14:13-15 (English Standard Version)

Then One Would Be Blinded

The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers so they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 2 Corinthians 4:4 (Berean Study Bible)

And Without Hope

"For what is the hope of the godless when he is cut off, When God requires his life? Job 27:8 (New American Standard Bible)

Without

The hope of the righteous is joy, but the expectation of the wicked will remain unfulfilled. Proverbs 10:28 (NET Bible)

Jesus

"Enter in by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who enter in by it. How narrow is the gate, and difficult is the way that leads to life. Few are those who find it. Matthew 7:13-14 (New Heart English Bible)

~

Be Blessed

God loved the world this way: He gave his only Son so that everyone who believes in him will not die but will have eternal life. John 3:16 (GOD'S WORD® Translation)

Beloved Of The KING

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 (King James Bible)

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Guest Robert]

Okay: let's take each of your posts one at a time here-

 

14 hours ago, noone said:

This is where you lose me.   Before you say “a theistic God exists”, you already assume that you exist and that your reader or listener exists.   I do not accept that you or I exist.  There are certain collections of matter which we would describe as “our bodies” but the self or individual identity is merely a story or fictional entity which we slowly come to believe in during toddlerhood and which we may forget again someday due to dementia, while the organisms that are “our” bodies could still be alive.   Since you and I are inventions of the mind, so are deities.   All that there really is is reality (consciousness) interacting with itself.   All distinctions, such as this or that, you or me, man or deity, exist in thought only.   That which is prior to any thought being thought is what really exists, and it is already everything.           

If you are considering "self" to be a "fiction", then there is a tremendous problem you are now faced with: the "self" that you claim is illusory has its' own thoughts which are different from the thoughts of others (an example is that we think differently than you do on this subject). That indicates that there is a distinction between yourself and others (even if your thoughts are similar to those in New Atheism who would agree with you), as there are those who do not agree. Otherwise, would we not be thinking the same thoughts at the same time?

Not to mention: you then establish no basis for reality, except the material world. That would preclude things such as the mind, save it being a physical result of chemical reactions (which we'll get to in a bit). That would remove non-physical aspects, such as the laws of logic,  which while they apply to physical things, are not themselves physical and are immaterial. 

A few thoughts of my own:

if there is no God, then did the laws of logic exist before human beings did? If so, where did they come from? If not, what guided the processes of the universe before they existed? If the universe is indeed random and undirected, then how would you detect randomness,  unless there was a contrast of order and goal-directness to compare it with?

Do those things not indicate intention?

 

11 hours ago, noone said:

Humanity's collectively and also we are each changing our own individual self-image daily.   To use language, you have to make distinctions, which are how the mind artificially divides and labels reality, which is itself a seamless, indivisible whole.   So a more accurate but also more awkward answer would be that they are no one's (or every thing's) inventions.   Thoughts happen, inventions are made, but they are made by no one, just like the rest of the world.   When a worm digs a tunnel, the tunnel is dug by no one.   There is no self-image there.   When a cloud forms, it is formed by no one, etc.   We can temporarily give a "self" to a worm when talking about it, but the self is not anything that exists in the worm or us, apart from thoughts about it, which are essentially had by no one.  

If that's the case, then who wrote your post? If your "self" is a fiction, then is not also the ability to use reason to cone to any sort of rational conclusion also a "fiction" as well? And since that reason is capable of discovering truths about reality, that means that any reasoning that leads to arguments for or against anything by necessity fail,  as an argument for or against anything would be controlled by physical forces (chemical reactions in our brains, according to New Atheists), which is not reason, but chemistry.

That would also mean your argument about us overlaying "divisions" on reality would also be a simple chemical reaction, and therefore fail as well.

You cannot have it both ways: if there is reason and laws of logic, then there is a Lawgiver and One who designed those laws, as well as made the universe ordered and discoverable and who made the mind an immaterial thing that can think and reason.. If not, then there are no laws of logic, thought is a reaction between compounds in our brains, and arguments are simply different chemistry experiments, in which no argument (including yours)  is even remotely possible to prove.

Unless you somehow believe your thoughts are exempt from that....

 

5 minutes ago, noone said:

If I believed that the Bible is true history, then I would believe that a deity was actually involved in those historical events, in the same way that I believe George Washington was involved in the American Revolution.   But I still would not believe in separation, or that “God” is anything other than you, me and everything else, because all distinctions are only artificial overlays on reality.

The problem with that line of thinking is that without "distinctions", then what separates your mind enough from everyone and everything else, to where you can make a judgment on this issue that you can say is clearly your own? If you think about it: you're mashing all reality into one giant conglomerate by claiming that "all distinctions are only artificial overlays on reality."

That would apparently render "reality" to be the material, physical plane. But the problem is: your mind is not your brain. If we think about a "grey mountain" or a "green ball", no neurosurgeon in the world would be able to find such things if they were to open your skull and look (thankfully so, especially with the mountain!). And while science can determine what parts of your brain correlate with certain emotions or impulses, only you can know what specific thoughts  are in your mind.

The brain is material, the mind is not.

That said, you have the ability to direct your thoughts intentionally (as you have demonstrated in your posts in this topic) and intellect. And these are according to the laws of logic, not randomness or inanity ("I am an ice cream cone" for example). And that indicates distinctions.

[missmuffet]

We do not need any steps that shows Christianity is true. We do not need proof. Just read the Bible.