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Sabbath Issue


Walter and Deborah

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Blessings Remnantrob

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.  But, in the same way that we as citizens of the US or any other country are expected to be law abiding citizens, the kingdom of God demands the same lawfulness.  The only difference is that he is empowering us to do so instead of us trying to do it by ourselves

Wonderfully said,I believe you are Indwelled & my Brother in Christ,I don't care what church you attend(building,org) & I know God doesn't either....To Him be the Glory forever & ever.....there is a beautiful SDA church here in my community  that I have visited several times,the service is fantastic,the people are lovely & every time I have been there I have heard Gods Word preached & nothing more,nothing less! 

  Unfortunately,as in all denominations & religious organizations they all have their own little doctrines,traditions of men & customs that can  sometimes be placed ABOVE Gods Word,the real message(Jesus,Gods Grace) can get lost in all of it.......Wisdom & Understanding comes through  Revelation by Holy Spirit,I have no doubt there are SAVED,Born Again,Spirit Filled Christians in every denomination & non-denomination & also,UNSAVED   I just thank God that Salvation is offered as it is,personally & intimately and by the Grace of God!                           With love-in Christ,Kwik

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1 hour ago, kwikphilly said:

Blessings Remnantrob

Wonderfully said,I believe you are Indwelled & my Brother in Christ,I don't care what church you attend(building,org) & I know God doesn't either....To Him be the Glory forever & ever.....there is a beautiful SDA church here in my community  that I have visited several times,the service is fantastic,the people are lovely & every time I have been there I have heard Gods Word preached & nothing more,nothing less! 

  Unfortunately,as in all denominations & religious organizations they all have their own little doctrines,traditions of men & customs that can  sometimes be placed ABOVE Gods Word,the real message(Jesus,Gods Grace) can get lost in all of it.......Wisdom & Understanding comes through  Revelation by Holy Spirit,I have no doubt there are SAVED,Born Again,Spirit Filled Christians in every denomination & non-denomination & also,UNSAVED   I just thank God that Salvation is offered as it is,personally & intimately and by the Grace of God!                           With love-in Christ,Kwik

Thanks Kwikphilly,

I was in FLA for the thanksgiving break but I only drove as far as Tampa.  Had I known you were a Floridian I might have considered a visit to your area so you could see the man behind the words...lol  I wish I was in a better position to travel more often, but when i do I try to knock out a couple of birds with one stone and visit friends if possible.  Maybe next time.  

Blessings.

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Oh that would be wonderful.....you & your family are always welcome Brother!!!!                                  With love-in Christ,Kwik

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2 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

Oh that would be wonderful.....you & your family are always welcome Brother!!!!                                  With love-in Christ,Kwik

Yep Kwiks door is always open to her brothers and sisters in Christ, She is a wonderful servant of our Savior...

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Oh Rustty

   You are very biased ......as my BFF-lol      But all kidding aside,my door is always open not because of me but to the Glory of God! Praise Jesus

                                                                                                                                          I love you Rusty (now cut that out!!!!):wub:

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Sabbaths is plural.  There were several sabbaths that God expected the Jews to keep.

I don't see SDA keeping the sabbath of the land in the 7th year.  Isn't that why God sent Judah into captivity--they didn't keep it?  I would assume they wouldn't work in their gardens or water their grass every 7th year since they are supposed to let the land go fallow, but all the yards in College Place WA are green every year, even the SDA Walla Walla University campus is always green and well kept.  just curious.

We read how healthy a vegetarian diet is, but the SDA people who adhere to it always looked sallow and anemic.  Some tell me they do it to not cause their weaker brothers to stumble and have a good beef steak at the first opportunity when they travel.  Maybe that is why my doctor looked healthier than others I have known.   I can understand them not eating pork, but even Jesus ate mutton on Passover and ate beef as part of the sacrifice meals.   Birds weren't forbidden.  God supplied quail in the wilderness, and doves were accepted as sacrifices as well.  The people ate of the sacrifices I read.  So I am not sure why SDA don't eat meat.  Some SDA eat fish, which Jesus assuredly did as a staple with whole grain bread.  He even multiplied loaves and fishes for the people to eat.  So the whole dietary thing is also a mystery to me.

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16 hours ago, Willa said:

Sabbaths is plural.  There were several sabbaths that God expected the Jews to keep.

I don't see SDA keeping the sabbath of the land in the 7th year.  Isn't that why God sent Judah into captivity--they didn't keep it?  I would assume they wouldn't work in their gardens or water their grass every 7th year since they are supposed to let the land go fallow, but all the yards in College Place WA are green every year, even the SDA Walla Walla University campus is always green and well kept.  just curious.

We read how healthy a vegetarian diet is, but the SDA people who adhere to it always looked sallow and anemic.  Some tell me they do it to not cause their weaker brothers to stumble and have a good beef steak at the first opportunity when they travel.  Maybe that is why my doctor looked healthier than others I have known.   I can understand them not eating pork, but even Jesus ate mutton on Passover and ate beef as part of the sacrifice meals.   Birds weren't forbidden.  God supplied quail in the wilderness, and doves were accepted as sacrifices as well.  The people ate of the sacrifices I read.  So I am not sure why SDA don't eat meat.  Some SDA eat fish, which Jesus assuredly did as a staple with whole grain bread.  He even multiplied loaves and fishes for the people to eat.  So the whole dietary thing is also a mystery to me.

Hi Willa,

I was in the midst of long dissertation of the mindset of the sda(generally speaking) and my testimony as to how I became a vegetarian 3 years ago.  But then I realized that my response might provoke more questions than answers.  I would like to say that there are some sda's in the conservative circles who if they have a piece of land to farm on probably adhere to giving the land a rest during the 7th year.  Our church, like most, have been going through a lot of division though they try to remain united for the most part.  The conservative circles would tell you that if we (sda) had been faithful  to the counsel of EGW and not sought after things like accreditation from the government the movement would have been more productive.  Yeah Loma Linda is probably our most famous institution but many believe we could have done more on our own....I guess sort of the like the amish.  Although the jews were obligated to keep several sabbaths, sda's are only concerned with what was written in stone (10 commandments).  I haven't visited Walla Walla yet but I hear it's beautiful.  

I think it would be more true to say that the sda that you have encountered who adhere to a vegetarian diet look sallow/anemic.  I've met a lot of vegans/health reformers and they are hardly ever sick and in optimum health.  They motivate me to do better than I have over the last 3 years.  I guess a quick answer from my experience in the church would be that you know that there will be no more death in heaven, so might be safe to assume that we won't have any steaks, chicken etc at the welcome table.  I believe many sda's are just preparing now for what will eventually be when we get there.  Some of the most famous texts used to promote the healthiest lifestyle are 3 John 2, 1 Corinthians 10:31, 1 Corinthians 3:16,17 just to name a few.  Also many of us believe that you can understand the state of things within the church based on what has been revealed through israel. (1 Corinthians 10:11).  It appears that something always happens when animals speak(verbally or non verbally).  you have the example of the serpent in the garden of eden, you have the animals gathering to enter the ark of noah and in these last days over the last few years I'm sure you've seen the news reports of the thousands of fish, birds and other animals dead in different places across the globe.  Now many might just excuse it as global warming, but I believe it has something to do with texts like these: Job 12:7,8; Zeph. 1:3, Hosea 4:1-6.  

I saw a documentary a while ago that stated that the egyptians were some sickly people and surprisingly they died of some of the exact same diseases that we as americans die of each year and it was directly related to their diet. The presenter then showed this scripture Exodus 15:26 which says :

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And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the Lord thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the Lord that healeth thee.

This seems to be substantiated by our churches prophet in the book counsel on diets and foods where she states:

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 Disease is accumulating rapidly. The curse of God is upon the earth, because man has cursed it. The habits and practices of men have brought the earth into such a condition that some other food than animal food must be substituted for the human family. We do not need flesh food at all. God can give us something else . p 384

For the most part diet/health reform (Nutrition, Exercise, Water, Sunlight, Temperance, Air, Rest, Trust in Divine power) is called the entering wedge or right arm of the gospel.  We believe that diseases will continue to increase and that although salvation/redemption is a spiritual thing, God is also trying to redeem the whole man: body, mind, spirit.  If you allow God to use you to reach the needs of the sick they are almost certainly open to the gospel.  My answer is longer than I wanted it to be and though not exhaustive I hope it helps you understand the sda mindset on diet a little better.  You live near Walla Walla so I'm sure there is a good old sda person who would be more than willing to sit with you and explain the church's view on the plant based diet.  God bless.

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Blessings and thank you for the explanations.  Vegan is logical.  I have taken nutrition updates that reflect a vegan point of view as to its healthiness and I respect it.  But for myself, I prefer to follow the example of Christ, since He was God in flesh, and eat what He ate;  I am sure He ate legumes as well as vegetables, fruit, fish, whole grain bread, and occasionally beef, mutton and poultry, but usually sacrificing the fat.

It has been a tradition among Walla Walla farmers to allow the land to go fallow every 7 years even with crop rotation, but it started here in the 1860s if not before;  the area was pioneered by Marcus Whitman, a Christian missionary who brought several wagon trains to settle the Pacific Northwest so it may have started here with him in the 1830s.    

Again, than you for helping me to understand.

Willa

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This is one I've wrestled with before.

It so easy for someone with a certain view to put together  convincing argument of a point of view.

You can even test it using the references listed and convince yourself they are right.

But, you need to see all sides or to do a more in depth search yourself for answers to be sure that you've really tested it.

Salvation is by Grace but good luck to those who wish to observe whatever sabbath they wish so long as they don't seek to impose it on others.

As said, by Law alone we are all already lost.

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I thought I`d add these scriptures to the conversation.

`For he has spoken in a certain place of the 7th day in this way: "And God rested on the 7th day from all His works," and again in this place: "They shall not enter my rest."........if Joshua had given them rest, then he would not afterwards have spoken of another day. There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. For he who has entered his rest has himself also ceased from his work as God did from His.

Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone should fall after the same example of disobedience. ` (Heb. 4: 4 - 10)

To me the 7th day is representative of God`s rest & as believer`s we can only have God`s `rest` by putting aside our own works & instead listen & obey the Holy Spirit. This rest is provided by Christ`s sacrifice, for He has passed into the heavens & ever lives to intercede for us. (Heb. 4: 14)

Marilyn.  

Edited by Marilyn C
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