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Walter and Deborah

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Rom 6:15  What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!

Rom 6:16  Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?

Rom 6:17  But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed,

Rom 6:18  and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.

Luk 10:25  And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"

Luk 10:26  He said to him, "What is written in the Law? How do you read it?"

Luk 10:27  And he answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself."

Luk 10:28  And he said to him, "You have answered correctly; do this, and you will live."

Rom 13:8  Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.

Rom 13:9  For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

Rom 13:10  Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

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4 hours ago, Riccardo said:

Thanks Hazard,  

My friend was worried about his salvation because he is having an affair, I just needed clarification, I told him we weren't under the law so its ok.

 

Eye opening Riccardo. Clever

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Is the Law still in effect for believers in Jesus Christ?

No. 

Would it be wise not to use Grace as a license to sin?

Yes. 

This is not to mention how easy it is to make a jolly mess of everything down here in this life by our sins...

But as the late Dr. Walter Martin used to say... "'suppose I want to sin?' Try it! And you'll find out empirically what God the Holy Spirit can and will do to HIS PROPERTY (which is you and me)!'" 

 

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9 hours ago, Riccardo said:

But Hazard  told the ten commandments of the old testament were no longer in force?

We are no longer under the law, we are under grace. The commandments are written in our hearts, not on stone. Adultery is sin! 

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11 hours ago, JohnD said:

Would it be wise not to use Grace as a license to sin?

What is sin?

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3 hours ago, Riccardo said:

What is sin?

It's in the Bible. Look it up.

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14 hours ago, HAZARD said:

We are no longer under the law, we are under grace.


JOHN 1 [15] John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. [16] And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. [17] FOR THE LAW WAS GIVEN BY MOSES, BUT GRACE AND TRUTH CAME BY JESUS CHRIST.

What law was givin by Moses? 

LEVITICUS 16  [15] Then shall he KILL THE GOAT OF THE SIN OFFERING, that is for the people, and BRING HIS BLOOD WITHIN THE VAIL, and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat:

Under the law of Moses the sin offering was the blood of animals {meat and drink offerings which were the shadow of Christ}. They were brought within the vail. When Christ died on the cross the vail was rent {Luke 23v45}

LUKE 23 [44] And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. [45] And the sun was darkened, and THE VEIL OF THE TEMPLE WAS RENT in the midst. [46] And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

The law fulfilled. No more shadows. Keep in mind the shadow of Christ were the meat and drink offerings that were performed on the new moons, feast days and the sabbath days

EPHESIANS 1  [6] To the praise of the glory of HIS GRACE, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. [7] In whom we have redemption through HIS BLOOD, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of HIS GRACE;

By grace our sins are now forgiven through His blood and not the blood of animals

HEBREWS 13  [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that THE HEART BE ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. [13] Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

Hebrews 13 says it all. We are no longer under that portion of the law of Moses. It has been fulfilled by Christ. No more meat and drink offerings for the forgivness of sins.

JOHN 6 [55] For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed.
 
There are some who will claim ya cant mix grace and the law
       
JOHN 1 [13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. [14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) FULL OF GRACE and truth.

This scripture says Jesus was full of grace. Did He keep the law? The sabbath
 

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6 hours ago, WailingWall said:


JOHN 1 [15] John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. [16] And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. [17] FOR THE LAW WAS GIVEN BY MOSES, BUT GRACE AND TRUTH CAME BY JESUS CHRIST.

What law was givin by Moses? 

LEVITICUS 16  [15] Then shall he KILL THE GOAT OF THE SIN OFFERING, that is for the people, and BRING HIS BLOOD WITHIN THE VAIL, and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat:

Under the law of Moses the sin offering was the blood of animals {meat and drink offerings which were the shadow of Christ}. They were brought within the vail. When Christ died on the cross the vail was rent {Luke 23v45}

LUKE 23 [44] And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. [45] And the sun was darkened, and THE VEIL OF THE TEMPLE WAS RENT in the midst. [46] And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

The law fulfilled. No more shadows. Keep in mind the shadow of Christ were the meat and drink offerings that were performed on the new moons, feast days and the sabbath days

EPHESIANS 1  [6] To the praise of the glory of HIS GRACE, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. [7] In whom we have redemption through HIS BLOOD, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of HIS GRACE;

By grace our sins are now forgiven through His blood and not the blood of animals

HEBREWS 13  [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that THE HEART BE ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. [13] Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

Hebrews 13 says it all. We are no longer under that portion of the law of Moses. It has been fulfilled by Christ. No more meat and drink offerings for the forgivness of sins.

JOHN 6 [55] For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed.
 
There are some who will claim ya cant mix grace and the law
       
JOHN 1 [13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. [14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) FULL OF GRACE and truth.

This scripture says Jesus was full of grace. Did He keep the law? The sabbath
 

Very interesting observations...

How can we approach these questions...

Moses open the door to the Law....

-for the children of Abraham only, and only those from the house of Jacob- Israelites- and only those at the time the Law was given and forwards not including those who had lived before the Law was given...

But including those who were borned before the Law was given and were alive at the time the Law was given!!!!

-the Law was Not given to the rest of the world-

The Law was inforce and deal with the punishment of different disobedience. 

Within the Law there is the conditions " the wages of sin is death", 

Not for all sins....

And there was the physical death..by stoning...

And the spiritual seperation not to be allowed to continue if disobey the passover holiday...

And the seremonial uncleanness...

Sins that do not bring death...that are forgivable...

And sins that are not forgivable...that bring death...seperation from God and people who are in obedience to the Law...exomunicated without any hope for reconciliation..

Jesus open the door to Grace and Truth...and to ETERNAL LIFE and to the Spirit and to the Heavenly Inheritance...

For the whole world ....

How are sins and disobedience are deal in the old ? 

And how in the Gospel of Jesus Christ...

Where the wages of sin is not nulified the eternal life. 

The believer even thought nit living within the requirments of the eternal life he still has the ETERNAL LIFE, given by faith and not by deeds...

And how about Jesus ... 

He was borned under the Law , in a coulture who the people were under the Mosaic Law, and his family did to him everything that was required by the Law...

He was not unclean, but they subjected him to cleansing ceremonies and not to be accepted by God but to be accepted by the people, according to their customs...

That's why when he touch the lepers or healing on the Sabath he remained clean because he was borned clean from the uncleaness  of the human seed of the seed of Abraham...

He himself could not be accused of any sin...

He never went out to do work on the Sabbath..

Tenting to the wines or diging the ground or enraging in forbitten activities..  

 

Besides the question of whether he was the CHRIST and he did miracles on the Sabbath..and touching the lepers and the dead and giving them life...

Forgiving sins...

Making himself above the High Priest. 

He did obeyed the Law because he was Judge by the Law also...

Then he said to the disciples: 

There is not any authority in the Temple and the Priesthood, it has been taken away, do not go back and asked anything according to the Old worship...

All authority has been given unto me, only cime to me and ask anything you need, I am the giver for anything you need...

And the scriptures were fullfiled: 

Let another one take his place..

The office of the bishopstick is taken away and is given to someone else. 

Taulking abiut the office of the Aaronic Priesthood..

Who was taken away and given to Jesus, a priest after the order of Melxisedec...

and the question

After the resuraction....

The disciples continue to lived in a coulture which was under the Law of Moses, and to be able to function in that coulture and even be able to enter their own homes-where only one member of the family was a believer- 

They had to be considered clean according to the Jewish Law, and they had to keep the Sabath, if not they will be stoned to death, not by Jesus ir the other believers , but by the authorities who were under the Law and were in charge to Judge to death those who disobey -consicrate the Temple or the Sabath-.. 

Judge for your self...

Choose to follow the laws of the authorities you are under or be Judge by them..

To follow not in your heart, but externally...

As in a secret believer...

A member of another coulture who has believe and visiting the unbelieving family, and to enter you may have to offer an oblation to the Gid of this household, according to the customs of the family, you are doing this for them and not from your heart....or even Christian culture who won't give you entrance in their sanctuary if you are wearing a hat... Ir a bonet...or are not water baptized by them....

Edited by Your closest friendnt
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Sin away! Have a blast! Be a fool.Experience a chastisement you never knew could be so painful.Let God

strike you dead . Stand before your Savior in utter shame.You can have it all.Your choice.

 

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17 hours ago, WailingWall said:


JOHN 1 [15] John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. [16] And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. [17] FOR THE LAW WAS GIVEN BY MOSES, BUT GRACE AND TRUTH CAME BY JESUS CHRIST.

What law was givin by Moses? 

LEVITICUS 16  [15] Then shall he KILL THE GOAT OF THE SIN OFFERING, that is for the people, and BRING HIS BLOOD WITHIN THE VAIL, and do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bullock, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat:

Under the law of Moses the sin offering was the blood of animals {meat and drink offerings which were the shadow of Christ}. They were brought within the vail. When Christ died on the cross the vail was rent {Luke 23v45}

LUKE 23 [44] And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. [45] And the sun was darkened, and THE VEIL OF THE TEMPLE WAS RENT in the midst. [46] And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.

The law fulfilled. No more shadows. Keep in mind the shadow of Christ were the meat and drink offerings that were performed on the new moons, feast days and the sabbath days

EPHESIANS 1  [6] To the praise of the glory of HIS GRACE, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. [7] In whom we have redemption through HIS BLOOD, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of HIS GRACE;

By grace our sins are now forgiven through His blood and not the blood of animals

HEBREWS 13  [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that THE HEART BE ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. [13] Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.

Hebrews 13 says it all. We are no longer under that portion of the law of Moses. It has been fulfilled by Christ. No more meat and drink offerings for the forgivness of sins.

JOHN 6 [55] For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed.
 
There are some who will claim ya cant mix grace and the law
       
JOHN 1 [13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. [14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) FULL OF GRACE and truth.

This scripture says Jesus was full of grace. Did He keep the law? The sabbath
 

Finally I have found someone that has a understanding of the covenant I believe, we may not agree on all points but at least your not placing the shadows or pointers, that point forward to Christ & He being the fulfilment, then saying they are part of the old covenant. The old covenant was the ten commandments, they are Gods moral laws unless his morality has changed they are still HIS standard. The old covenant was ratified by blood therefore sealed at that time.  The shadows were added later & placed in the side of the arc it was the 10 commandments in the arc (of the covenant).

 

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