Guest shiloh357 Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 2 hours ago, BobRyan said: How about a NT text that says to read the OT and accept it as the Word of God - as Doctrine -- 2 Tim 3:16 "There REMAINS therefore a SABBATH rest for the people of God" Hebrews 4. - "Remains from when?" -- the answer in Hebrews 4 is that it remains as it was in Psalms 95. "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 "the SABBATH was made for MANKIND" Mark 2:27 And the "solution" to the NT Christian church problems? "Moses is preached every SABBATH in the synagogues" Acts 15. So then what is Paul doing? Preaching the GOSPEL " every SABBATH in the Synagogue" to BOTH Jews and Gentiles - Acts 18:4 You are confusing the Sabbath rest with the Sabbath day. The Sabbath day is not given to the Church. The Sabbath, for Christians, is Jesus. He is our Sabbath rest. The Sabbath day was simply a sign post to point people to Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heretoeternity Posted September 2, 2017 Group: Seventh Day Adventist Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 480 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/06/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted September 2, 2017 57 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: You are confusing the Sabbath rest with the Sabbath day. The Sabbath day is not given to the Church. The Sabbath, for Christians, is Jesus. He is our Sabbath rest. The Sabbath day was simply a sign post to point people to Jesus. Sabbath is rest, from your work and the worldly affairs...as God says in His fourth commandment which He wrote, Remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy....it is supposed to be a day devoted to God, and His word (keeping it Holy)..He created the day, blessed it and sanctified it (set it aside for Holy purposes) Genesis 2...Jesus kept the seventh day Sabbath, the Apostles kept the seventh day Sabbath, and God commanded it Himself on the stone, with the other nine commandments...Apostle John says in 1st John "this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments and they are not burdensome" all that is good enough for me to keep it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 18 minutes ago, heretoeternity said: Sabbath is rest, from your work and the worldly affairs...as God says in His fourth commandment which He wrote, Remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy....it is supposed to be a day devoted to God, and His word (keeping it Holy)..He created the day, blessed it and sanctified it (set it aside for Holy purposes) Genesis 2...Jesus kept the seventh day Sabbath, the Apostles kept the seventh day Sabbath, and God commanded it Himself on the stone, with the other nine commandments...Apostle John says in 1st John "this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments and they are not burdensome" all that is good enough for me to keep it. The Sabbath day is like the dietary commandments in that it was only given to Israel. Not all of the commandments in the OT were meant to be for all people for all time. The Sabbath day was meant to point to Christ, not to be a forever observance and then it was only commanded to Israel. Jesus is our Sabbath rest from trying to earn God's favor and our rest from the world's sinful system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heretoeternity Posted September 2, 2017 Group: Seventh Day Adventist Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 480 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/06/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted September 2, 2017 1 hour ago, shiloh357 said: The Sabbath day is like the dietary commandments in that it was only given to Israel. Not all of the commandments in the OT were meant to be for all people for all time. The Sabbath day was meant to point to Christ, not to be a forever observance and then it was only commanded to Israel. Jesus is our Sabbath rest from trying to earn God's favor and our rest from the world's sinful system. The dietary laws etc were the law of Moses and were the sacrifical, cleanliness, etc laws 600 in number..Moses wrote these himself on parchment. These ended in Acts 15 with the exception of the four mentioned. The ten commandments which God wrote Himself on stone are a sign of permanency Exodus 20...and the Apostles refer to them as I indicated, Apostle John says also "anyone that says they know Him and keeps not His commandments are liars and the truth is not in them"... If one is a Christian they have to learn the difference between the two sets of laws., You cannot "earn favour with God" as you put it, but God's grace provides forgiveness of sins and salvation, provided we repent from sin and follow His word...what is sin? 1st John says "sin is transgression of the law"..and Apostle James says "you break one commandment you break them all...to break the fourth commandment is to break all ten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heretoeternity Posted September 2, 2017 Group: Seventh Day Adventist Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 480 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/06/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted September 2, 2017 Just now, heretoeternity said: The dietary laws etc were the law of Moses and were the sacrifical, cleanliness, etc laws 600 in number..Moses wrote these himself on parchment. These ended in Acts 15 with the exception of the four mentioned. The ten commandments which God wrote Himself on stone are a sign of permanency Exodus 20...and the Apostles refer to them as I indicated, Apostle John says also "anyone that says they know Him and keeps not His commandments are liars and the truth is not in them"... If one is a Christian they have to learn the difference between the two sets of laws. This is not earning favour with God, but gratitude to Him for our salvation, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 1 hour ago, heretoeternity said: The ten commandments which God wrote Himself on stone are a sign of permanency Exodus 20...and the Apostles refer to them as I indicated, Apostle John says also "anyone that says they know Him and keeps not His commandments are liars and the truth is not in them"... John was not referring to the Law of Moses. Anyone who reads the Bible with skill and competency knows that the commandments John is referring to are the commandments given by Jesus to His disciples. Quote You cannot "earn favour with God" as you put it, but God's grace provides forgiveness of sins and salvation, provided we repent from sin and follow His word...what is sin? Salvation is justification by faith alone in Christ alone. Keeping His word is the fruit of salvation, not the means of procuring it. Quote Apostle James says "you break one commandment you break them all...to break the fourth commandment is to break all ten. No, that is not what James said. James did not say that breaking one commandment breaks all of them. First of all, if you look at the context of James 2: 8-13, the "royal law" is the one commandment to love your neighbor as yourself. He is not referring to the law of Moses in its entirety, but rather has something more particular in mind. He is dealing with the issue of favoritism and he sites "loving your neighbor" as you love yourself. Favoritism is what violates that law of loving one's neighbor. And since he is focused solely on the one teaching of loving one's neighbor, he says violating it at one point means you have broken the entirety of that particular law. You may love your neighbor as yourself in other contexts, but if you fail to do it at any point, you have violated that particular law in its entirety. All of the other ways you have loved your neighbor as yourself do not offset your disobedience in showing favoritism. Need to look at things in their immediate context and stop cherry picking verses to force them to address issues they were not written to address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazing Horse Posted September 2, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 14 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 364 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 80 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/02/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted September 2, 2017 We can find answer to this question in 2 Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted September 2, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,061 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 27,808 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 2, 2017 8 hours ago, BobRyan said: "Sabbath DAYS" refers to the Lev 23 list of annual feast days .. not the weekly Sabbath. I would disagree with that because of the Greek wording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted September 2, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,061 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 27,808 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted September 2, 2017 8 hours ago, BobRyan said: Actually Christ was a Carpenter and never said to the Jews that He was "making tables and chairs on Sabbath". Rather - Christ said that He was evangelizing... preaching the Gospel and performing miracles of healing on the Sabbath. His argument to the Jews (Which they agreed with) was that the priests are doing the same thing which is approved of by the OT Laws dealing with the Sabbath. The Jews did not refute that argument - rather they agreed with it. "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" even in the NT - according to 1 John 3;4 -- if Christ had done as you and the Jews had accused Him of doing - then He would be "by definition" a sinner. One could make the same argument about "Do not take God's name in vain" he said and I quote John 5:16-18 16 And for this reason the Jews were persecuting Jesus, because He was doing these things on the Sabbath. 17 But He answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." NASB they accused him of working on the Sabbath and he agreed he was working.... simple as that. So if we are still under the old testament law, Jesus broke the 4th and can not be our savior...... so we all go to hell for none of us deserve anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heretoeternity Posted September 2, 2017 Group: Seventh Day Adventist Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 480 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/06/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted September 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Amazing Horse said: We can find answer to this question in 2 Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Paul was referring to the Mosaic law, not the ten commandments, read the entire chapter to put it in context Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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