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Walter and Deborah

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WOW!  I hear the law was done away with everywhere .

Not under the law,    90% haven't got a clue what this means

Here is some indisputable statements from our Lord Himself.

Do not think I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I did not come to destroy but fulfil. For assuredly, I SAY TO YOU,   TILL HEAVEN & EARTH PASS AWAY not one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law  till all is fulfilled.   To me it still looks like its still here

Rom 4:4 for where there is no law there is no sin.        Without the law there is no sin.    

Romans 7:7-9  The Knowledge of sin comes through the law,  apart from he law, sin is dead.

was there anything wrong with the old covenant? NO,  the answer lies in Hebrews 8:8 finding fault with THEM . Psalm 19:7 the law of God is PERFECT refreshing the soul. Can it be perfect & wrong at the same time.

What then are we to make void the law through faith? CERTAINLY NOT! on the contrary, we establish the law.

So what laws are to be written on our heart if they are not Gods moral laws??????? 

In the new covenant, God writhes His laws on out heart, WHAT laws if not his moral laws. or is it up to each individual to determine based on his standing & growth at a Christian, because it will vary.

Not under LAW   meaning   WE are now not under its condemnation thanks be to God though his Grace, we now, through faith trust in Christs finished work & the promise. It does not give us a license to sin, sin is the transgression of the law, What LAW, your law.  

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All members of the Body of Christ have obtained a license. I got mine.It’s a license to rest.I am not concerned with keeping the Law.I will let those who haven’t had a Holy Spirit heart transplant  do that.The Law was given so sin would increase.If you want a guarantee that people will walk across your lawn,just put up a “No Trespassing” sign.The Law stirs up the sin nature.Grace defeats it.Quit obsessing over the Law , accept God’s Grace and forgiveness and watch yourself obey the Law more effectively by resting than by trying to conquer it with fear and will- power.That is the spirit behind true Sabbathing— resting in His finished work. We should Sabbath in that true sense every hour of every day.

Edited by Blood Bought 1953
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11 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

The Law was given so sin would increase

My bible says it was given to point out sin, & show how much we fall short of the Lords standards & how much need we are of a saviour . You should get a new transplant after insinuating those that don't think as you need one. 

The Holy Spirit is telling me not to ignore Jesus teaching about the law still standing till heaven & earth pass away. 

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1 hour ago, Riccardo said:

My bible says it was given to point out sin, & show how much we fall short of the Lords standards & how much need we are of a saviour . You should get a new transplant after insinuating those that don't think as you need one. 

The Holy Spirit is telling me not to ignore Jesus teaching about the law still standing till heaven & earth pass away. 

Yes the law is still there and it is still valid...…    but Jesus made it none effect to us.....      born again Christians are no longer under the laws of the old covenant.    But if you are not committed to Jesus then you are condemned by the old laws.....    of course we are to live by Jesus two laws and some commands such as being baptized, but those are not burdensome most of the time.   I'm still having trouble loving someone who wants to cut my grandchildren's head off if they don't submit to Allah......

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5 hours ago, Riccardo said:

My bible says it was given to point out sin, & show how much we fall short of the Lords standards & how much need we are of a saviour . You should get a new transplant after insinuating those that don't think as you need one. 

The Holy Spirit is telling me not to ignore Jesus teaching about the law still standing till heaven & earth pass away. 

 

I agree to some extent.The purpose of the Law was to show that we can’t keep it—- we must have a Savior.  Nevertheless, what I said was Biblical. I know it is shocking if you hear it for the first time.Roman 5:20 says that “ the Law was brought in so sin might increase, but where sin increased, grace overflowed all the more”Some teachers say that God permitted the increase in sin so they could be like Him—-absolutely SICK of it.I am not sure about that but it makes more sense than any other explanation I have heard.Jesus said it through his mouthpiece, Paul, so take it up with Him if you don’t like what He said.

As far as the “ heart transplant” is concerned , if you see yourself as a wretched sinner who has had his heart changed from a heart of stone to a heart that has been softened and made contrite in response to the insight given by the Holy Spirit, you have had your “ heart transplant”.If you lack that act of the Holy Spirit you are in BIG trouble.You strike me as one who has been given God’s Gift. I hope so. God bless.

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5 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

As far as the “ heart transplant” is concerned , if you see yourself as a wretched sinner who has had his heart changed from a heart of stone to a heart that has been softened and made contrite in response to the insight given by the Holy Spirit, you have had your “ heart transplant”.If you lack that act of the Holy Spirit you are in BIG trouble.You strike me as one who has been given God’s Gift. I hope so. God bless.

I'm sorry brother but I must have taken the heart transplant statement the wrong way. I thought you were suggesting the Holy spirit has directed you & i if others don't  understand as you they are wrong & the holy spirit didn't guid them.  I have heard a lot of people suggest just that, how pompous can one get. That they are guided by the spirit & you are not if you disagree.

WE may disagree on a lot of points, but we both agree we are saved by grace through faith. WE will always fail but it should be less & less thought the sanctification process. God say he won't tempt you more than you can deal with, some people seem to think that God can't keep that promise, the other misnomer, that you may not agree with is most think that a bad thought is a sin. If so tell me what is the difference between temptation & sin?  because temptation is when a thought has entered the mine, James 1:12-18 goes into it. At that stage it hasn't given birth to sin, Christ was tempted beyond our belief, but it never bore fruit. Mathew 5:27-28 whoever looks at a woman lustfully Has committed adultery in his heart.   Lets say I see a very rich  man or woman drop there wallet & the money is bulging, I am in great need because of a debt,  he think that will overcome all his problems I'm going to take it home for my family, but then he feels that is not right, so he picks it up & returns it to the owner. Most in Christendom will say he has sinned because of the thought? did he over come the temptation or not?  Hmmm I got off track, I guess thats what happens to old blokes. 

I wish you well brother ,

Richard 

 

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On 10/9/2018 at 1:36 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

Very interesting observations...

How can we approach these questions...

Moses open the door to the Law....

-for the children of Abraham only, and only those from the house of Jacob- Israelites-

Yeah, the covenants were originally given only to Israel. We were STRANGERS from the covenants. BUT NOW!

EPHES. 2 [11] Wherefore remember, that ye being IN TIME PAST GENTILES in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANTS OF PROMISE, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

We {gentiles}were once STRANGERS from Gods covenants of promise, having no hope. BUT NOW in Christ, should we take hold of those covenants, we have hope

ISAIAH 56 [6] Also the sons of THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and TAKETH HOLD OF MY COVENANT; [7] EVEN THEM WILL I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL PEOPLE.

Even them (us gentile STRANGERS mentioned in Ephes.2) will He bring to His holy mountain, if we should take hold of His sabbath covenant. Jesus will bring us to the 1000yr period of rest

EXODUS 31 [16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the SABBATH, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a PERPETUAL COVENANT.

The above scripture points to one of those covenants spoken of in Ephes.2 

ROMANS 1 [30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [31] without understanding, COVENANTBREAKERS, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: [32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

And you can see who Paul lumps in with the covenantbreakers. Not good company 
 

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On 11/23/2016 at 7:13 PM, Ezra said:

The question of Torah observance was already addressed in depth in Acts 15.  And there is no mention there of the seventh day sabbath. 

Well.... just look a little deeper

ACTS 15 [17] That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. [18] Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. [19] Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among THE GENTILES are turned to God: [20] But that we write unto them, that THEY ABSTAIN FROM POLLUTIONS OF IDOLS, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. [21] For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
 
ACTS 15 as a whole was speaking as to whether gentiles needed to be circumcized or not. 

ACTS 15 [4] And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. [5] But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That IT WAS NEEDFUL TO CIRCUMCISE THEM, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

ACTS 15 [24] Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, YE MUST BE CIRCUMCISED, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

Nothing to do with the 10 commandments. So lets look into what pollution of idols {V 20} is all about. Its there we find that we are to be keeping Gods sabbath day.

LEVITICUS 19 [3] Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and KEEP MY SABBATHS: I am the Lord your God. [4] TURN YE NOT UNTO IDOLS, NOR MAKE TO YOURSELVES MOLTEN GODS: I am the Lord your God.

LEVITICUS 26 [1]Ye shall MAKE YOU NO IDOLS NOR GRAVEN IMAGE, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the Lord your God. [2] YE SHALL KEEP MY SABBATHS, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord. 

EZEKIEL 20 [16]Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes, BUT POLLUTED MY SABBATHS: FOR THEIR HEART WENT AFTER THEIR IDOLS.
 
I don’t know what the connection might be as to why graven images and idols are a sign that you don’t keep Gods sabbath but if the WORD says so I believe it. We could have a debate on what an idol is but that would go nowhere but in circles. Does your church have any standing images? I know the churches that do keep the sabbath don’t have any standing images or crosses. 

LEVITICUS 9 [2]And he said unto Aaron, Take thee a young calf for a sin offering, and a ram for a burnt offering, without blemish, and offer them before the Lord.

Before Christ a young calf was used as a sin offering?
 
DEUT. 9 [16]And I looked, and, behold, ye had sinned against the Lord your God, and had made you a molten calf: ye had turned aside quickly out of the way which the Lord had commanded you.

And as Moses went up the mount to receive the 10 commandments the people below made a graven image that resembled that sin offering. They made a molten calf. God was not happy with these people. I wonder if some of them made the claim that it was not really a graven image, only a likeness of the sin offering. Now of course the crucified Jesus is our offering for sin.  
 

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On 10/13/2018 at 7:44 AM, WailingWall said:

Yeah, the covenants were originally given only to Israel. We were STRANGERS from the covenants. BUT NOW!

EPHES. 2 [11] Wherefore remember, that ye being IN TIME PAST GENTILES in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; [12] That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and STRANGERS FROM THE COVENANTS OF PROMISE, having no hope, and without God in the world: [13] BUT NOW IN CHRIST JESUS ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. [14] For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

 

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We {gentiles}were once STRANGERS from Gods covenants of promise, having no hope.

 

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BUT NOW in Christ,

 

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should we take hold of those covenants, we have hope

Hello WW, your reference to Ephesians 2: 12-15 it gives the guidance that the Jews are coming to God through Jesus Christ, the same way as the Gentiles, without the Covenants of the Past, but only in the name of Jesus in the new way , the same for the Jews and the Gentiles.

To say that in Ephesians 2: 12-15 , Jesus Christ is asking the Gentiles to take hold of the Covenants together with the Jews to be accepted by God, it is a heretic statement, definately is incorect and contrary to the message in Ephesians 2: which say we have -both Jews and Gentiles- peace with God through Jesus CHRIST, in the new way because of his sacrifice..

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ISAIAH 56 [6] Also the sons of THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and TAKETH HOLD OF MY COVENANT; [7] EVEN THEM WILL I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL PEOPLE.

these scriptures are from the old way, before Jesus Christ, where both Israelites and those of the Gentiles who were allowed to joint them , they were accepted by God through the keeping of the Sabbath and the offering of the animal sacrifices and burned offerings in the Temple with the employment of the High Priest and the Priests from the trive of Levy and from Aaron's family...

There is nothing in Ephesians to suggest that in Jesus Christ, the Gentiles are called to Joing the Jews in the animal sacrifices in the Temple , enlisting the help of the High Priest who put Jesus to death and prosecute the disciples. 

When in Ephesians it says the contrary and it calls on the Jews and the priest to stopped the animal sacrifices and accept the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. 

 

You 

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Even them (us gentile STRANGERS mentioned in Ephes.2) will He bring to His holy mountain, if we should take hold of His sabbath covenant. Jesus will bring us to the 1000yr period of rest

This a very strange statement and is not found in Ephesians but only in your imagination, you should be carefull and not careless and read Ephesians again even from simple translations and reputable ones as the Gideon's new testiment. 

 

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EXODUS 31 [16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the SABBATH, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a PERPETUAL COVENANT.

The above scripture points to one of those covenants spoken of in Ephes.2 

Again this is not right , please read Ephesians again and Again and vry carefully and consult diferent Pastors to see what they say , is not what you have come to understand. 

And stopped being afraid that you do not have peace with God and you are not accepted by God unless you keep the Sabbath and enlist the High Priest if the Jews to offer animal sacrifices and burned offerings for you, this was for the people of that time....

Now we have peace with God through the sacrifice of Jesus CHRIST for all the people of the earth...

One way for all , for the Jew who is called to leave everything behind and follow Jesus Christ and to the Gentiles to leave the idolatry behind and also to followed Jesus Christ..

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ROMANS 1 [30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [31] without understanding, COVENANTBREAKERS, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: [32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

And you can see who Paul lumps in with the covenantbreakers. Not good company 
 

In this passage Paul described how many not all of the Gentiles leave without the consiense and the knowledge of Jesus Christ, and the reminder to Gentiles believer not to go back and do those things they used to do, but to persue clean living . 

Do not be afraid of Hell if you are a believer: 

That's the message in Ephesians we are Saved by grace through faith, 

If you want to include the Sabbath rest in your coulture, do not enlist others on the Sabbath and walking only is allowed and only for four kilometers. 

And if Jesus asked you to cook for your children or give them a sponch bath to keep their fever down do not begg him that you will do it only if he  promise you not to sent you to Hell.. 

Think twish before  teaching your children to be afraid...

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On 10/14/2018 at 12:04 PM, Your closest friendnt said:

There is nothing in Ephesians to suggest that in Jesus Christ, the Gentiles are called to Joing the Jews in the animal sacrifices in the Temple....

Uhh... Where did i ever suggest we are to keep the animal sacrifices {the meat and drink offerings that were to be performed on the new moons, feast days and sabbaths}? Is this what Trump calls fake news?

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