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woundeddog

Question about Reformation and a divided church

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This occurred to me last night while driving home last night and listening to ETWN a RCC station. a few of our participants on this site have said that the reformation was a false movement because today there are so many forms of Protestantism. The implication seems to be that a divided church can not be the true church---- saying that to say this-- Why are there so many different kinds of RC orders- Dominicans, Franciscans, Jesuits,  Carmalite etc-- and --Catholic Eastern Orthodox, Scottish and all the other rites= Isn't that a demonstration of division also- if there was "One True Church" wouldn't all of its teaching and practice be exactly the same???- I think that the theory of a fragmented protestant body of worship being an indication that it is wrong- is in fact a big fail---- seems all churches have fragmentation and that is not the litmus test of veracity~~~~

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1 hour ago, woundeddog said:

This occurred to me last night while driving home last night and listening to ETWN a RCC station. a few of our participants on this site have said that the reformation was a false movement because today there are so many forms of Protestantism. The implication seems to be that a divided church can not be the true church---- saying that to say this-- Why are there so many different kinds of RC orders- Dominicans, Franciscans, Jesuits,  Carmalite etc-- and --Catholic Eastern Orthodox, Scottish and all the other rites= Isn't that a demonstration of division also- if there was "One True Church" wouldn't all of its teaching and practice be exactly the same???- I think that the theory of a fragmented protestant body of worship being an indication that it is wrong- is in fact a big fail---- seems all churches have fragmentation and that is not the litmus test of veracity~~~~

Every group, no matter what you call yourself, who accepts Christ as their savior and allows His Spirit to move in them, is of the same body.  Any division is created by someone believing another has deviated from scripture and refuses to follow them, resulting in them creating their own group.  Further division comes when the focus is placed on their differences and not on what they share in common that would result with receiving the ability to grow together.  Man has divided Christ Body due to allowing one of many personality traits that each of us have ... weaknesses of the flesh we allow to leak out into our hearts and minds.  There are as many reasons as there are denomination, including any form of the above mentioned RCC group structure.  We all can argue scripture until we are blue in teh face, but until there be an inner change, there will be no healing.

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The litmus test is the Bible.  Those doctrines that deviate from the Scriptures must be rejected. 

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Well the thought came to me today, and the truth of the mater is, the original intentions of a lot of the reformers such as Martin Luther (the German), was to reform the Catholic church, which eventually they came out of, but created denominations that resemble a lot Catholicism, and were not much better.

What I read in the bible is that God does not want us to be either conformed to a church system (religion according to man) or the world, but rather he wants a complete separation and transformation.

Rom 12:2
(2)  And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

It is not a reformation that is needed, but a complete transformation, were we completely lean on God, and his ways.
 

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Hi woundeddog,

Interesting thoughts there bro. Now I believe there are two main factors here -

 - the Holy Spirit`s guidance & man`s sinfulness.

Jesus said that He would send the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. This is a process `guiding into all truth` & we, the Body of Christ have yet to come to the fullness of truth, (Eph 4: 13) over the centuries we can see (in hindsight) the main truths that the Holy Spirit has restored to the Body.

- Salvation by faith

- Baptism in water

- Infilling of the Holy Spirit

- gifts of the Holy Spirit

- ministries of the ascended Head

As each truth has been restored there has been much opposition, then eventually the truth, by the Holy Spirit is accepted across the Body. However as man received a certain truth and there came opposition, he built walls around it & thus the different labels we have today of man`s organisations. Interestingly though, today, that in most cases the label does not identify the group now so much, as more truth has come & been received.

With each move, restoration of truth, there has come the false & thus it is important to receive the truth but also to be discerning. Man`s different organisations are just that - organisations & do not now determine so much what people believe. They are just meeting places & gatherings for various activities. People now have access to so much information, teachers, etc on the internet, books, magazines etc. People in one meeting can have a variety of beliefs eg the end-times, & still sing & praise the Lord together.

I mentioned the `end-times,` as it is the last great truth to be clarified in our day.

regards, Marilyn.

 

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2 hours ago, woundeddog said:

I think that the theory of a fragmented protestant body of worship being an indication that it is wrong- is in fact a big fail---- seems all churches have fragmentation and that is not the litmus test of veracity~~~~

You are quite correct. This is what is known as a "red herring" in order to divert attention from the corruption that exists in the church of Rome.

While on the surface (genuine) Protestants and non-Catholics (which did not come out of Rome) may appear to be fragmented, the fundamental beliefs are identical, particularly concerning the authority of Scripture, the Godhead, the Deity of Christ, and salvation by grace through faith.

Had the Reformers reformed things more thoroughly, and not accepted the false ideas of Augustine and Calvin, all non-Catholics would be on the same page. 

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