70 weeks, 1000 years?

[Ezra]

10 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

My point is that seals trumpets and bowls are all past events. Period .

Really? At the stroke of a pen, all prophecy concerning the future is relegated to the past.  So in your imagination we are already in the New Heavens and the New Earth. Or should we limit that to just the Millennium?

[Dennis1209]

I think this topic might be better described as Premillennialism vs. Amillennialism maybe. It's a secondary issue to that of Salvation by Grace that should not detract or divide Christians from Soteriology (the study of salvation by faith). It's our hermeneutic study of the Bible searching out scripture. With that said, and as a premillennialist, here's my beliefs as brief as I can make them without quoting all the scriptures supporting it.

Israel as a nation rejected Christ's first coming. To provoke Israel to become jealous and seek the Lord, we gentiles were grafted into the promise. Therefore a pause or gap, of unknown time has occurred referred to as 'the church age' or 'times of the gentiles', between Daniel's 69th and 70th week. Christianity or the church has not replaced Israel or God's promises to Israel. A major, if not the reason for the tribulation (in addition to the sinfulness of man), is to realize their rejection of the Messiah's first coming, and petition Him and sincerely request His immediate return to save them.

The 70th week of Daniel starts immediately when 'the son of perdition, the 'man of sin' signs or affirms a seven year peace covenant (agreement) with Israel. Exactly at the midpoint of those seven years (3.5 years) when the Antichrist commits the 'abomination of desolation', the great tribulation begins. Christ Jesus makes His second coming at the end of the great tribulation and supernaturally destroys Israel's enemies.

Then starts the millennial literal 1,000 year reign of Christ. Satan will be chained and bound for this 1,000 year duration. Christ will rule from Jerusalem with a rod of iron. So man will have no excuse for temptation by unclean spirits, but will still be born into sin and still have his sinful nature. 

The curse put on the earth will be partially or fully lifted by the Lord, and humanity will be restored to that of the conditions Adam & Eve and the antediluvial period. To achieve this very long life, I suspect the atmospheric pressure will be doubled and the oxygen content substantially increase. A protective vapor canopy protecting the earth from life reducing solar effects. During the millennium I suspect meat 'flesh' will not be consumed as food. I postulate our diets will mainly if not entirely consist of fruits, having the beneficial effects of healthier living. There will still be sin in the world, but it will be severely restrained. I suspect the less a person sins, the longer he physically lives.

As a side note: Pterodactyls could fly before earth's environment was drastically changed, but not in today's environment. Dinosaurs and reptiles have no limits on how large they can grow given ideal lush conditions to live in. 

 

[Heb 13:8]

11 hours ago, Ezra said:

Really? At the stroke of a pen, all prophecy concerning the future is relegated to the past.  So in your imagination we are already in the New Heavens and the New Earth. Or should we limit that to just the Millennium?

Did I say the whole book of revelation or did I just say seals, trumpets and bowls.

[Ezra]

2 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Did I say the whole book of revelation or did I just say seals, trumpets and bowls.

That pretty much covers the whole book. After that we have the Millennium and the New Heavens and the New Earth.  So what's your preference?

[Heb 13:8]

9 minutes ago, Ezra said:

9 minutes ago, Ezra said:

That pretty much covers the whole book. After that we have the Millennium and the New Heavens and the New Earth.  So what's your preference?

That pretty much covers the whole book. After that we have the Millennium and the New Heavens and the New Earth.  So what's your preference?

2nd post, pg 3.

[Marilyn C]

9 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

I think this topic might be better described as Premillennialism vs. Amillennialism maybe. It's a secondary issue to that of Salvation by Grace that should not detract or divide Christians from Soteriology (the study of salvation by faith). It's our hermeneutic study of the Bible searching out scripture. With that said, and as a premillennialist, here's my beliefs as brief as I can make them without quoting all the scriptures supporting it.

Israel as a nation rejected Christ's first coming. To provoke Israel to become jealous and seek the Lord, we gentiles were grafted into the promise. Therefore a pause or gap, of unknown time has occurred referred to as 'the church age' or 'times of the gentiles', between Daniel's 69th and 70th week. Christianity or the church has not replaced Israel or God's promises to Israel. A major, if not the reason for the tribulation (in addition to the sinfulness of man), is to realize their rejection of the Messiah's first coming, and petition Him and sincerely request His immediate return to save them.

The 70th week of Daniel starts immediately when 'the son of perdition, the 'man of sin' signs or affirms a seven year peace covenant (agreement) with Israel. Exactly at the midpoint of those seven years (3.5 years) when the Antichrist commits the 'abomination of desolation', the great tribulation begins. Christ Jesus makes His second coming at the end of the great tribulation and supernaturally destroys Israel's enemies.

Then starts the millennial literal 1,000 year reign of Christ. Satan will be chained and bound for this 1,000 year duration. Christ will rule from Jerusalem with a rod of iron. So man will have no excuse for temptation by unclean spirits, but will still be born into sin and still have his sinful nature. 

The curse put on the earth will be partially or fully lifted by the Lord, and humanity will be restored to that of the conditions Adam & Eve and the antediluvial period. To achieve this very long life, I suspect the atmospheric pressure will be doubled and the oxygen content substantially increase. A protective vapor canopy protecting the earth from life reducing solar effects. During the millennium I suspect meat 'flesh' will not be consumed as food. I postulate our diets will mainly if not entirely consist of fruits, having the beneficial effects of healthier living. There will still be sin in the world, but it will be severely restrained. I suspect the less a person sins, the longer he physically lives.

As a side note: Pterodactyls could fly before earth's environment was drastically changed, but not in today's environment. Dinosaurs and reptiles have no limits on how large they can grow given ideal lush conditions to live in. 

 

Hi Dennis,

I agree with a lot of what you have said. Well presented. Now you may like to look at Isaiah 65: 25 -

`The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, the lion shall eat straw like the ox, & the dust shall be the serpent`s food. They shall not hurt nor destroy IN ALL MY HOLY MOUNTAIN. ` (Isa. 65: 25)

Thus I believe that it is only in God`s holy mountain in Israel that the `Edenic` like conditions prevail.

What say you concerning this?

Marilyn.

 

Edited December 7, 2016 by Marilyn C

[Marilyn C]

19 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

What proof do you see that the seals, trumpets and bowls are future. Any specific verse in Rev 6-16?

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this (2000 years later)?."

Hi Heb,

As the book of Revelation is a culmination of all that the Father has revealed of His Son & His purposes, then we need to understand what the Lord is doing, when & why.

So I ask you first, if as you say the `seals, trumpets & bowls` are in the past then -

1. What is the Lord doing?

2. When did He do it?

3. Why does He do it?

That will give us all a clearer view of what you believe & are trying to tell us.

regards, Marilyn.

[Heb 13:8]

3 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Heb,

As the book of Revelation is a culmination of all that the Father has revealed of His Son & His purposes, then we need to understand what the Lord is doing, when & why.

So I ask you first, if as you say the `seals, trumpets & bowls` are in the past then -

1. What is the Lord doing?

2. When did He do it?

3. Why does He do it?

That will give us all a clearer view of what you believe & are trying to tell us.

regards, Marilyn.

Only God is in control of the future. What I believe is on 2nd post, pg 3. included with youtube video.

[Marilyn C]

16 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Only God is in control of the future. What I believe is on 2nd post, pg 3. included with youtube video.

Hi Heb,

We are really here to discuss, bro. So as those links didn`t take me to utube I will say I see that you believe the `seals, trumpets, & bowls` are symbolic. Well I believe we`ll only have a few years to see one way or the other.

regards, Marilyn.

[Heb 13:8]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Heb,

We are really here to discuss, bro. So as those links didn`t take me to utube I will say I see that you believe the `seals, trumpets, & bowls` are symbolic. Well I believe we`ll only have a few years to see one way or the other.

regards, Marilyn.

Underline: I'll give you two examples of past fulfillment for seal 1 and 3..

1. Rev 6:1-2 - Crown is actually translated wreath in Greek. The white horse represents the conquering Roman Empire, from 96 – 180 A.D., as it was a time of its greatest expansion and their military conquests were celebrated by riding white horses in their victory parades. Cretan Roman Emperors Trajan, Hadrian, Antoninus Pius and Marcus Aurelius, each had a bow as their symbol. The crown represents the laurel wreathes of victory that were worn by the Caesars after their armies had won a military battle.

2. Rev 6:5-6 - To hurt not the oil and the wine, means to be not unjust to them.  In other words, let the taxation be fair as compared to the prices of wheat and barley, instead of raising the prices on oil and wine even more. In those days, oil and wine were not just luxuries, but they served many purposes in people’s lives.  Paul told Timothy, “No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach’s sake and your frequent infirmities.” The agricultural industry was ruined under this heavy taxation, which lead to famine.  People moved away from the farmlands into the cities, where they would suffer from the famine.