70 weeks, 1000 years?

[Sister]

Serving

Seven weeks to build the temple.  That's how long it took.  From laying the first stone to the last.

 John 2:20   Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

There's your seven weeks.

Out of the 70 weeks the building of the temple took seven weeks.  There's our clue in John.

 Daniel 9:24   Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression,(new temple to no temple again) and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy,(70 weeks, new temple to no temple) and to anoint the most Holy.

The whole purpose of this 70 weeks is to have the rebuilding of the temple, to it's destruction.  Everything happened inside that 70 weeks.  The waiting for the building to start, the finishing of the building,  the Messiah coming, the Messiah standing in that temple, the temple being defiled by the condemning of Jesus, and the destruction of the temple.

In my opinion, God made it look like a sum.  Everyone trying to work out dates, etc, ....thinking we all got it figured out,....but it's a trap in my opinion.  It's not a sum.  It's so simple, and staring us in the face, that no one can perceive because we are all trying to use our own wisdom.

It took 7 weeks for the building alone.  Just seven weeks.  Don't add anything.  It's just a simple statement.  It happened inside the seventy weeks.

The word "and" is used, because the sentence is not finished, he's still speaking, explaining more in the same breath.  This will happen "and" that will happen.

If I am wrong, may God correct me, because when we first worked this out, we did not notice the clue in John.  I believe God is separating the weeks to trip us up.  Maybe I am tripped up too, who knows, but I can't wait to find out for sure, and until then, this is not an easy one.  We all have our own theories, but deep down inside none of us are sure 100%.

You could be right too, what you say makes sense.  This prophecy does my head in!

Edited December 10, 2016 by Sister

[Serving]

20 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

The 70th week is connected to the third temple. So what you're saying is that the 70th week is still future and God puts an end to sin at the end of the 70th week, which means the New Earth would have to begin right away. But the 1000 years comes before the New Earth, and people are dying in the millennium. The math doesn't add up. So I go to the alternative.

Dan 9:24 "Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

Hi H,

No I am saying that the 70 weeks is fulfilled .. done .. past.

Israel (nationally speaking) FAILED at all 6 requirements hence the destruction in 70ad, if they had succeeded then there would have been no destruction, but there was so they failed and the prophecy is fulfilled, there is no future left overs of the 70 weeks, God said 70 weeks, not 60 odd weeks plus 2000 years .. THAT doesn't add up at all.

 

[Serving]

On 10/12/2016 at 9:40 AM, Sister said:

Serving

Seven weeks to build the temple.  That's how long it took.  From laying the first stone to the last.

 John 2:20   Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

There's your seven weeks.

Out of the 70 weeks the building of the temple took seven weeks.  There's our clue in John.

Yes i'm aware of that verse Sister and have been for a while now .. there's no problem there & it fits nicely .. sooo .. ?????

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 Daniel 9:24   Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression,(new temple to no temple again) and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy,(70 weeks, new temple to no temple) and to anoint the most Holy.

Sister, to finish the transgression has nothing to do with the temple .. the temple can't transgress because it's a temple, the people however, it is the people who are told to stop transgressing .. 

The sealing up of the vision and the prophecy likewise has no bearing on the temple .. this is one half of what it represents : Isaiah 8:16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.

The other half is the bad half to those it is sealed (kept) from.

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The whole purpose of this 70 weeks is to have the rebuilding of the temple, to it's destruction.  Everything happened inside that 70 weeks.  The waiting for the building to start, the finishing of the building,  the Messiah coming, the Messiah standing in that temple, the temple being defiled by the condemning of Jesus, and the destruction of the temple.

Not the whole purpose Sister, God was constantly giving them chances to return to Him hence this :

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Just as Jesus confirmed in His lamentation (and notice WHO would NOT too .. P.S -it wasn't Christ) :

Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

Yes, we both know that God had planned His word go out to the Gentiles all along, but that still could have been done even if Israel succeeded, hence God constantly calling them back, but God knew they would not, so to the Gentiles He went .. the whole purpose was for Israel to come back to God, the CONSEQUENCES of their failure however is WHERE the temple comes into it, because without that temple (spiritual now) they have no NATIONAL mediation with God.

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In my opinion, God made it look like a sum.  Everyone trying to work out dates, etc, ....thinking we all got it figured out,....but it's a trap in my opinion.  It's not a sum.  It's so simple, and staring us in the face, that no one can perceive because we are all trying to use our own wisdom.

It is a sum Sister .. hence the s-e-v-e-n-t-y . w-e-e-k-s !!!! Saying otherwise goes against what it really is.

What I've put forth is simple too .. it's also staring us right in the face .. "and no one can see it because we are all trying to use our own wisdom too" right?

Or does that only work one way? mmmmmmmmmmmm

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It took 7 weeks for the building alone.  Just seven weeks.  Don't add anything.  It's just a simple statement.  It happened inside the seventy weeks.

Lol, I'm not adding to scripture at all Sister ..

I did point out it took just 7 weeks for the building alone, because the bible stated that clearly .. which 7 weeks are obviously part of the 70 weeks too !!!!

So I don't know what you're on about here???

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The word "and" is used, because the sentence is not finished, he's still speaking, explaining more in the same breath.  This will happen "and" that will happen.

Which BACKS what I was saying ????? TWO events are being described in that verse .. one event takes 7 weeks and the other event takes 62 weeks .. ADD them together and you get 69 weeks .. that is SIMPLE math, no need to try and use my own "wisdom of man" because God already provided the simple solution !!!!! 

But you seem to be ignoring the 7 weeks and only taking the 62 weeks !!!!

THAT is where you are going wrong .. it is 7 weeks (for the building) AND .. AND .. AND 62 weeks for the waiting for Messiah .. THAT means 69 weeks all up !!!

HOW is that wrong? It is not wrong.

Sister, He said "after 62 weeks .. SHALL be cut off" for a reason ..WHY didn't he just say after 69 weeks???

EASY .. here's WHY :

If I say to you, my car will take 7 weeks to fix AND 62 weeks to travel to your place .. how long all up will it take to get to your place?

And if i say , after 62 weeks i got to your place, what am I saying?

I'm saying the journey took that long, no need to mention the fixing of my car cause I ALREADY TOLD YOU that takes 7 weeks but I wasn't speaking of the fixing when I mentioned the 62 weeks now was I ..  I was speaking of the JOURNEY !!!

Because you can't have the journey (62 weeks) UNTIL the fixing (7 weeks) is done FIRST .. and you can't TRAVEL in a broken car so you can't say 69 weeks of TRAVELLING if you weren't travelling for that whole time .. and  I'd EXPECT you'd be able to work that out for yourself right?

So HOW long would I take all up when adding them BOTH together?

69 weeks of course .. and THAT is exactly the same principle going on in Daniel Sister .. and it is dirt simple. 

NATIONAL Israel can't wait for messiah if they don't have a NATION first right (prophetically speaking because of what is prophetically needed before their waiting period sets in) !!!! And you can't have a nation if the people have no where to stay (because their enemies would just waltz right in) !!!! So like the fixing of that car, Israel needed their NATION first, and like the journey came after the car was fixed, the waiting for Messiah came after the NATION was established .. SAME principle.

And just like the car analogy, Israel had TWO stages to complete before Messiah came .. the building of their nation (fixing the car) AND then the waiting (the journey) .. and together THEY took 69 weeks all up .. not 62, but 69 weeks.

See?

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If I am wrong, may God correct me, because when we first worked this out, we did not notice the clue in John. 

The 49 years fits perfectly into what I was saying ??? 

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I believe God is separating the weeks to trip us up.  Maybe I am tripped up too, who knows, but I can't wait to find out for sure, and until then, this is not an easy one.  We all have our own theories, but deep down inside none of us are sure 100%.

 

Sister, do we now throw away the 1335 days because God is using numbers? The 1260 and the 1290 ?? the 42 months?? They are numbers too !! Is God tripping us up there too?? What, we can't be 100 % sure of them either? 

This is not doing my head in Sister, I've put a lot of time into it and I'm 100% sure too .. yet  somehow I'm wrong because "we all have our own theories", lol, so subtle .. are you saying that because I can see it clearly for myself but it's doing your head in  then "nobody can be sure" .. hmmmmmm.

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You could be right too, what you say makes sense.  This prophecy does my head in!

Sister, It is so simple it comes down to this : 

Hey Israel .. you got "70 weeks" to get your act together, if you don't get your act together within the 70 weeks, then when the 70 weeks EXPIRES, you're gonna cop it bad.

You DON'T punish til the given time expires, the punishment is NOT part of the "get your act together", it's the RESULT of NOT getting their act together .. 

Say you give your husband 6 months to get his act together or you'll leave (punish) him, do you leave him DURING those 6 months or AFTER those 6 months?

And if you leave him DURING those 6 months .. wouldn't that be breaking your word?

Do you really think God operates that way too?

Because : Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

There is NO punishment to fulfil within THOSE 70 weeks at all besides the sense of foreboding IF they don't step up BY those 70 weeks .. and not just them (the people) but their CITY too .. IF .. IF .. IF they can't do it by the 70 week deadline .. and the expectation is to step up and to ACCEPT Messiah .. anything else thereafter comes form the FAILURE to do those things BY the EXPIRY of that set time .. and just like my analogy, if they fail, then there's gonna be consequences not only on the people, but on the WHOLE kit and kaboodle (meaning even their city will cop it TOO) .. 

And THAT is simple .. no need for wisdom of man there either .. just God given common sense.

Thanks Sister. 

Edited December 11, 2016 by Serving

[Heb 13:8]

5 hours ago, Serving said:

Hi H,

No I am saying that the 70 weeks is fulfilled .. done .. past.

Israel (nationally speaking) FAILED at all 6 requirements hence the destruction in 70ad, if they had succeeded then there would have been no destruction, but there was so they failed and the prophecy is fulfilled, there is no future left overs of the 70 weeks, God said 70 weeks, not 60 odd weeks plus 2000 years .. THAT doesn't add up at all.

ok. can you believe it took me five years to finally figure that out. 70 weeks past. why did it take me so long.

[Serving]

7 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

ok. can you believe it took me five years to finally figure that out. 70 weeks past. why did it take me so long.

It can take a long time sometimes when we get something into our heads and it seems to fit .. it bothered me for a long time too .. always knew it was past, but the details had me stumped coz I couldn't get past 70 ad being part of the 70 weeks before realising it (70ad) was actually the CONSEQUENCES of the FAILURE of them fulfilling the 70 weeks, and THAT bugged me for 7 years, constantly being drawn back to it .. HOW did it take that long ??? .. so I know what you mean.

[Heb 13:8]

16 hours ago, Serving said:

It can take a long time sometimes when we get something into our heads and it seems to fit .. it bothered me for a long time too .. always knew it was past, but the details had me stumped coz I couldn't get past 70 ad being part of the 70 weeks before realising it (70ad) was actually the CONSEQUENCES of the FAILURE of them fulfilling the 70 weeks, and THAT bugged me for 7 years, constantly being drawn back to it .. HOW did it take that long ??? .. so I know what you mean.

My issue was fitting Matt 24 into a future seven years. Pre-wrath rapture just seems to fit into Dan 9:27, but I also see Matt 24 as past now.

[Heb 13:8]

1 Seal - 96 – 180 A.D / Crown is actually translated wreath in Greek. The white horse represents the conquering Roman Empire, from 96 – 180 A.D., as it was a time of its greatest expansion and their military conquests were celebrated by riding white horses in their victory parades. Cretan Roman Emperors Trajan, Hadrian, Antoninus Pius and Marcus Aurelius, each had a bow as their symbol. The crown represents the laurel wreathes of victory that were worn by the Caesars after their armies had won a military battle.

2 Seal - 180-284 A.D / The Red horse represents a bloody time in the Roman Empire from 180-284 A.D., as it went into a phase of revolution and civil war for 90 years, during which there were 32 emperors and 27 contenders for the throne. John uses the word ghay for earth, which means “a region.”

3 Seal - 222-235 A.D. / To hurt not the oil and the wine, means to be not unjust to them.  In other words, let the taxation be fair as compared to the prices of wheat and barley, instead of raising the prices on oil and wine even more. In those days, oil and wine were not just luxuries, but they served many purposes in people’s lives.  Paul told Timothy, “No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach’s sake and your frequent infirmities.” The agricultural industry was ruined under this heavy taxation, which lead to famine.  People moved away from the farmlands into the cities, where they would suffer from the famine.

4 Seal - 250-300 A.D. / The Pale horse represents 1/4th of Romans dying from famine, plague, pestilence and violence, from 250-300 A.D.  The word ‘earth‘ means land, not the whole Earth.  The Roman Empire is the land/earth of prophecy. Remember that the Lord Jesus is judging the pagan Roman Empire because they killed millions of Christians.  He is avenging justice for their deaths. The color of the horse represents the condition of the Roman people at that time, and the description of the rider represents the cause of their condition. The pale horse represents an era of death in the Roman Empire.  Again, it’s not speaking of the whole Earth, just the Roman Earth.

5 Seal - 303-312 A.D. / It represents the millions of martyrs who were killed by the Roman Empire, especially the Smyrna church martyrs who Emperor Diocletian persecuted for 10 years, from 303-312 A.D. Their blood is crying out for the Lord to avenge their deaths. The reason that Jesus opened the first four seals was to avenge the blood of the 10 million martyrs who had been killed by the Roman Empire. There are two groups of martyrs spoken of in Revelation.  The first was those who were killed by the Roman Empire. The second group were killed during the Dark Ages and the Inquisition came, when from 50-100 million martyrs were slain by Papal Rome and the countries that they controlled.

6 Seal - 324 A.D. / Earthquakes in the prophecy represent great political upheavals. Eastern Emperor Constantine defeated Diocletian’s army in 312 A.D., which ended the persecutions. Diocletian (the Sun) was so panic stricken, he died insane. Constantine defeated emperors Maxentius and Licinius to become sole ruler of both west and east by 324 A.D. The Roman leaders (stars) fell and their power receded as a scroll. The mountains and islands that were moved out of place, were the countries and people that were affected by this political change. The 6th seal of Revelation represents Jesus exacting justice against the Roman Empire, for shedding the blood of the saints.

7 Seal - It represents the Lord preparing to blow 7 trumpets of war against the pagan Roman Empire, when he sent army after army against them. So why did the Lord switch from Seals to Trumpets? In the Old Testament, the blowing of trumpets was often used to proclaim that God was about to pronounce judgment upon a wicked system, city, country or people. The seventh seal is divided into seven Trumpet judgments, as the Lord sent the Goths, Vandals, Huns, Heruli, Saracens and Turks, to invade and scourge the Roman territory.

[Serving]

On 12/12/2016 at 9:41 AM, Heb 13:8 said:

My issue was fitting Matt 24 into a future seven years. Pre-wrath rapture just seems to fit into Dan 9:27, but I also see Matt 24 as past now.

Hi H,

I don't prescribe to a future 7 years peace treaty (which is always meant when one says "future 7 years" so correct me if you don't mean that), there is no mention anywhere in the scriptures about it and it is only a presumption that spread like wildfire amongst the mainstream churches and taught as fact .. but it is not factual at all and should be utterly rejected in my opinion or at least made clear that it is only a presumption .. we have to be careful of these doctrines because Christ did say after all that many would come in His Name saying this and that .. and churches most certainly "come (speak) in Christ's Name" .. THAT is where the deception He warned us about is and has been attacking us from .. false church doctrines taught as fact designed to confound us and make the prophecies open to all manner of interpretations (confusions).

The only place one can deduce a 7 year period to come has nothing to do about peace treaties at all, what it has got to do about is the false prophets public office .. 3 1/2 years of his rising to power and wonderful speeches where he is promoting this new system to come in sight of the forming beast empire, mainly and subtly directed at believers to get them on his side whilst subtly mocking God etc, and his next 3 1/2 years where he is in power controlling the beast empire and enforcing that system he was initially promoting in it's sight, and now coming after the believers with the full weight of the law and empire behind him.

The ones who promoted the future 7 years as this peace treaty have absolutely zero scriptures to back it up and yet it has permeated every mainstream's belief systems as a given, where in actual fact it is nothing more than a house of cards style discernment.

As for pre-wrath rapture, I do not prescribe to that either, and certainly do not see it reflected in Daniel 9 myself .. I will point out that you did say to me that you see Daniel 9 as fulfilled .. that being so, the obvious question I'd have for you is this, " how do you see a pre-wrath rapture within something you see as fulfilled in the past" ??

I'm not attacking you either H, just promoting critical thinking on things that have been and are being taught.

And as for Matt 24, it is a mixture of past and future, hence the opening question directed to the Lord concerning a statement Christ made :

Matthew 24

1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
 

past and future.

 

Serving. 

Edited December 13, 2016 by Serving

[Heb 13:8]

7 hours ago, Serving said:

The ones who promoted the future 7 years as this peace treaty have absolutely zero scriptures to back it up and yet it has permeated every mainstream's belief systems as a given, where in actual fact it is nothing more than a house of cards style discernment.

I agree. But if pre-trib, mid-trib or pre-wrath doesn't exist then when does rapture occur is my question. On 9/23/17?

7 hours ago, Serving said:

As for pre-wrath rapture, I do not prescribe to that either, and certainly do not see it reflected in Daniel 9 myself .. I will point out that you did say to me that you see Daniel 9 as fulfilled .. that being so, the obvious question I'd have for you is this, " how do you see a pre-wrath rapture within something you see as fulfilled in the past" ??

There's a lot of similar language in Matt 24, Isa 13 and Rev 6. Scripture seems to point rapture to the Day of the Lord after six seal, but I'm studying past fulfillment now. I've studied future stuff for five years, and have only recently begun past fulfillment.

7 hours ago, Serving said:

And as for Matt 24, it is a mixture of past and future, hence the opening question directed to the Lord concerning a statement Christ made :

Matthew 24

1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
 

past and future.

I see Matt 24:3 as past only..http://theolivetdiscourse.com/explanation-of-the-olivet-discourse/

And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Matthew 24:3

 

Messiah’s purpose in this discourse was not at all to give His people signs of His coming again, but to warn that generation of believers of the approaching destruction of Jerusalem, and to give to them a sure sign whereby they might, and whereby in fact His own people did, secure their safety by fleeing the land and city. (PM)

 

“thy coming” refers to “these things”, the destruction of the temple; not Messiah.  They were asking what is the sign of the things that he just proclaimed about the temple being desolated.

 

The NIV/ESV/NKJ incorrectly say “what will be the sign of your coming”, making it seem like Messiah’s 2nd coming.

 

The Greek word for coming is parousia; from the present participle of 3918; a being near, i.e. advent (often, return; specially, of Christ to punish Jerusalem, or finally the wicked); (by implication) physically, aspect:—coming, presence.

 

Messiah was surely present during the desolation of the temple, city and Jews; not in the sense of His return to earth, but that He commanded it and oversaw it. Notice that the other two recordings of the Olivet Discourse do not include the question about the end of the world:

 

Mark 13:4, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

 

Luke 21:7, And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

 

The word ‘world‘ should be translated as ‘age‘. The Greek word aiōn means: properly an age; by extension perpetuity (also past);

by implication the world; specifically (Jewish) a Messianic period.

 

The same word is used in Hebrews 9:26, which is referring to Messiah’s sacrifice occurring in the latter days of the Jewish age.

 

“For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.”

 

Matthew was asking about the end of the age, a time period, not the end of the world. Had that been the intent, the Greek word kosmos would have been used.

 

Messiah had just declared in Matthew 23 that the Jewish leaders would be desolated, which would end the existence of the Jewish nation. The destruction of the Temple would have been considered the end of the world to the Jewish people, to whom Matthew was primarily writing. (FNL)

 

The ‘former days‘ of the Jewish nation ended when the Jews were taken captive by the Babylonians.  The ‘latter days‘ of the Jewish nation started when they were released from Babylonian captivity in the 5th century B.C., and they ended in 70 A.D.

 

So it should read “of the end of the age“.  The New King James gets the translation correct.

 

Coke’s Commentary on the Holy Bible
The sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world, are only different expressions to denote the same period with the destruction of Jerusalem; for they conceived, that when Jerusalem should be destroyed, then would be the coming of Christ; and when the coming of Christ, then the end of the world; or rather, as it should be rendered, the conclusion of the age.

 

John Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible
And what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Which two are put together, as what they supposed would be at the same time, and immediately follow the destruction of the temple. That he was come in the flesh, and was the true Messiah, they firmly believed: he was with them, and they expected he would continue with them, for they had no notion of his leaving them, and coming again. When he at any time spake of his dying and rising from the dead, they seemed not to understand it: wherefore this coming of his, the sign of which, they inquire, is not to be understood of his coming a second time to judge the world, at the last day; but of his coming in his kingdom and glory, which they had observed him some little time before to speak of; declaring that some present should not die, till they saw it: wherefore they wanted to be informed, by what sign they might know, when he would set up his temporal kingdom; for since the temple was to be destroyed, they might hope a new one would be built, much more magnificent than this, and which is a Jewish notion; and that a new state of things would commence; the present world, or age, would be at a period; and the world to come, they had so often heard of from the Jewish doctors, would take place; and therefore they ask also, of the sign of the end of the world, or present state of things in the Jewish economy: to this Christ answers, in the latter part of this chapter, though not to the sense in which they put the questions; yet in the true sense of the coming of the son of man, and the end of the world; and in such a manner, as might be very instructive to them, and is to us.

[Heb 13:8]

Underline: What I believe is that the 70 weeks have passed and the abomination of desolation spoken of in Dan 9:27 is about Titus the prince.

 

If what others are saying is true, and fulfillment of Dan 9:24 comes to a close at the end of the 70th week, then why does scripture say the curse will be lifted after the millennium and not before..

 

Isa 65:20 "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed.

 

Rev 22:3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.