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Maybe some Protestants/Non-Catholics can answer......


Hoddie

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1 minute ago, White Rabbitt said:

Sort of like "You are a pillar in the Roman Catholic Church".

Something like that?

I think that any mainline church is a pillar of the truth.

Plus we should test the spirits, as the bible teaches us.

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On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 3:19 AM, Ezra said:

When you are taught that your church is the one true church, and that there is no salvation outside your church, you do not question any of its teachings (true or false).  It is similar to cult mind-control.

True enough. Pray for them and love them anyway no matter how annoying and frustrating they can be.

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On ‎1‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 5:45 PM, Fran C said:

I think that any mainline church is a pillar of the truth.

Plus we should test the spirits, as the bible teaches us.

There are some pretty bad "mainline" churches out there. Many out there who aren't knowledgeable in scripture think the Catholics, Charismatics, Mormons, JWs, Oneness, many Uniteds, they think they are all "mainline". No church is the pillar of truth because all churches are made up of men and women who are sinful and can still make mistakes.

God alone is the pillar of truth and that is what 1 Tim 3:15 is saying

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On 1/12/2017 at 2:45 PM, Fran C said:

I think that any mainline church is a pillar of the truth.

That should be "any true Bible church". The mainline churches departed from the truth a long time ago. 

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17 hours ago, Yowm said:

1 Timothy 3:15 KJVS
[15] But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

It's disingenuous of Rome to use this verse as if it is 'the' pillar and ground of truth.

They are using Scripture, which the Protestants say is the pillar and ground of truth (sola scriptura), thus are using a method which is self defeating.

 

Hi Yowm, 

Please clarify... Are you saying Catholics don't use scripture?

Personally, I don't believe saying a church is the one true church is the same as saying that church IS the truth. They also believe that Jesus is the truth.

Do you see a difference?

Fran

 

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57 minutes ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said:

There are some pretty bad "mainline" churches out there. Many out there who aren't knowledgeable in scripture think the Catholics, Charismatics, Mormons, JWs, Oneness, many Uniteds, they think they are all "mainline". No church is the pillar of truth because all churches are made up of men and women who are sinful and can still make mistakes.

God alone is the pillar of truth and that is what 1 Tim 3:15 is saying

Hi Matrix,

May I be so bold as to say that I DO NOT trust independent churches.   Tell me where you think I'm wrong:

 

A mainline church, to me, is a church that has a hierarchy - there is help for it; both in physical and financial ways. Human help can be sent when necessary, for whatever reason, financial help could be sent if funds should run out and there's a serious problem.  There's a history to the church, there are most probably theologians involved with setting the doctrinal beliefs.

In an independet church, we have a person who decided to set it up to fit what HE agrees is correct in the bible.  I have a church like this near me and it's more like a cult - at least that's how I feel about it.

 

Mainline is a big church:  Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, Nazarene, Assembly of God, etc.

 

Regarding being the pillar of truth.  I already commented on this and hate to repeat but any church that teaches salvation in Christ is a pillar of truth.  

 

When we say a person is a pillar of the community, we're not saying the PERSON is the community, he is what is holding UP the community.

The churuch IS the pillar of truth.

GOD IS THE TRUTH.

THE CHURCH IS THE PILLAR OF TRUTH.   It holds UP the truth.

It's not wrong to say that a church is the pillar of truth.  It is the SUPPORTER of the truth.

 

Fran

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48 minutes ago, Ezra said:

That should be "any true Bible church". The mainline churches departed from the truth a long time ago. 

Ezra, 

That's a really serious statement to make!

WHAT truth do you think the mainline churches have abandoned?

I feel like they are still holding to it.

In other words,  could you be more specific as to what TRUTH they departed from?

Fran

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17 minutes ago, Yowm said:

When there is a conflict between Church Tradition and Scripture, guess which wins out with Rome?

Otherwise their attempt to use Scripture as a basis of the preeminency of their Church is self defeating (iow they are basing their assertion on Scripture!).

The True Church is the Body of Christ made up of born again believers of both Jew and Gentile coming together around God's Word for worship, Lord's Supper, prayers etc.

For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.
(Eph 2:14-16)

And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.
(Act 2:42)

 

Yowm,

I agree with all you've said.  But guess what?  Talk about confession and they'll point to John 20:23

Speak of the real presence and you'll get John 6:54

It's a different way of understanding these scriptures.  But let's not get too much into this.

The O.P. was asking, tongue in cheek, where Protestants got their bible.  From the same place Catholics got it...the church (small C)

back in the first centuries.  The church at that time, that put the bible together and made it a book - I refer to the N.T.  There was only one church back then, the Universal (catholic) church.

 

Fran

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Guest Teditis
14 minutes ago, Fran C said:

Yowm,

I agree with all you've said.  But guess what?  Talk about confession and they'll point to John 20:23

Speak of the real presence and you'll get John 6:54

It's a different way of understanding these scriptures.  But let's not get too much into this.

The O.P. was asking, tongue in cheek, where Protestants got their bible.  From the same place Catholics got it...the church (small C)

back in the first centuries.  The church at that time, that put the bible together and made it a book - I refer to the N.T.  There was only one church back then, the Universal (catholic) church.

 

Fran

I agree with that Fran... in the 2nd century the church was already referring to the Holy Scriptures, meaning the OT and the NT.

By the 4th century they had what they referred to as the Bible... both were in existence before the RCC or Protestants.

The Universal catholic church, as you call it, operated very differently than any church in existence today... history has led to many

changes in what we have nowadays.

I wish more people were aware of church history and held it with respect for all involved in it's rising up.

Edited by Teditis
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29 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Actually I kept emphasizing to the OP that we got our bible from the Holy Spirit THROUGH the Jews. Maybe Hoddie was unaware that all the apostles were Jewish believers not Roman Catholics :)

Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God.
(Rom 3:1-2)

They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.
(Rom 9:4-5)


All long before Rome came along.

Oh. I see!

I agree.  I know some who say that it was written BY, FOR and ABOUT catholics.  I just tell them to study up on some basic history!

We are only grafted into the one, true  vine.  

Fran

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