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The Pagan Origins Myth About Christmas


Guest shiloh357

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Guest shiloh357
2 hours ago, JohnD said:

Over the years I had my reservations about the way Protestants do the Last Supper / Communion (remnants of the Roman Catholic Eucharist). When I heard there were ancient Egyptian rites along these lines for the sun god Rah,

Who told you that the Communion were ancient Egyptians rites "along these lines for the sun god Ra?  What is your source for that?

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4 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Who told you that the Communion were ancient Egyptians rites "along these lines for the sun god Ra?  What is your source for that?

I would like to know where  you find that in the Bible too,is there scripture for that John?

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10 minutes ago, JohnD said:

Shiloh in this and any topic I post on... you don't like me. I get it.

I assure you it's mutual.

You don't have to believe there even is a Bible as far as I am concerned.

Just please refrain from stocking me and my posts... 

I do not seek your posts to do the same.

Thank you and lots a luck...

Those comments are very rude...you will not get away with insulting anybody  on the board ,  personal insults or abusive behavior are  not allowed..

 

Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem the other better than himself Phil.2:3

 

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27 minutes ago, JohnD said:

Bible.

Which book and chapter(s) talk about "ancient Egyptians rites 'along these lines for the sun god Ra?'"

 

Quote

Read one.

This is a very poor debate tactic. You can do better than this.

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Guest shiloh357
11 hours ago, JohnD said:

Bible.

Read one.

No, you're just making stuff up.  And nothing you claim is actually in the Bible.   You can't  produce any evidence so you provide silly answers like this. 

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Guest shiloh357
13 hours ago, JohnD said:

Shiloh in this and any topic I post on... you don't like me. I get it.

I assure you it's mutual.

You don't have to believe there even is a Bible as far as I am concerned.

Just please refrain from stocking me and my posts... 

I do not seek your posts to do the same.

Thank you and lots a luck...

I am here, at this point, on my thread, to blunt your remarks.   I am the OP here and I am going to make sure your teachings get no traction here. I don't care if you like me or not. Doesn't matter.  What matters is that  these teachings are not based on Scripture and someone has to counter and refute this stuff so that no one is led astray into thinking that Communion is pagan or that there is a piece of God in every human being or whatever false teaching.  And I will show up as long as these teachings show up on the boards.

 

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Forgive my impertinent pernicious attitude one and all. 

I am wrong Shiloh is right. 

 

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:laugh: There is a great video that refutes the myth that Christmas is pagan in origin. "Horus Ruins Christmas".  It goes through all the presumed predecessors to Christ. Mithra's, Horus, etc... It's a great little piece.

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DATE OF CHRIST’S BIRTH NOT KNOWN

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“The supposed anniversary of the birth of Jesus Christ, occurring on Dec. 25: No sufficient data . . exists, for the determination of the month or the day of the event . . There is no historical evidence that our Lord’s birthday was celebrated during the apostolic or early post-apostolic times. “The uncertainty that existed at the beginning of the third century in the minds of Hippolytus and others— Hippolytus earlier favored Jan. 2; Clement of Alexandria (Strom., i. 21), “the 25th of Pachon” [May 20]; while others, according to Clement, fixed upon Apr, 18 or 19 and Mar. 28—proves that no Christmas festival had been established much before the middle of the century. Jan. 6 was earlier fixed upon as the date of the baptism or spiritual birth of Christ, and the feast of Epiphany . . was celebrated by the Basilidian Gnostics in the second century . . and by Catholic Christians by about the beginning of the fourth century.  “The earliest record of the recognition of Dec. 25 as a church festival is in the Philocalian Calendar [although copied in 354, represented Roman practice in 336].”— Newman, A.H., “Christmas,” New Scaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, Vol. 3, 47

THEY WERE NOT CERTAIN WHAT DATE TO SELECT

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“Uncertainty about Jesus’ birthday in the early third century is reflected in a disputed passage of the presbyter Hippolytus, who was banished to Sarinia by Maximinus in 235, and in an authentic statement of Clement of Alexandria. While the former favored January second, the learned Clement of Alexandria enumerates several dates given by the Alexandrian chronographers, notably the twenty-fifth of the Egyptian month, Pachon (May twentieth), in the twenty-eighth year of Augustus and the twenty-fourth or twenty-fifth of Pharmuthi (April eighteenth or nineteenth) of the year A.D. 1, although he favored May twentieth. This shows that no Church festival, in honor of the day, was established before the middle of the third century. Origen, at that time in a sermon, denounced the idea of keeping Jesus’ birthday like that of Pharaoh and said that only sinners such as Herod were so honored. Arnobius later similarly ridiculed giving birthdays to ‘gods.’ A Latin treatise, De pascha computus (of ca. 243), placed Jesus’ birth on March twenty-first since that was the supposed day on which God created the Sun (Gen 1:14-19), thus typifying the ‘Sun of righteousness’ as Malachi 4:2 called the expected Messiah. A century before, Polycarp, martyred in Smyrna in 155, gave the same date for the birth and baptism placing it on a Wednesday because of the creation of the Sun on that day.”—Walter Woodburn Hyde, Paganism to Christianity in the Roman Empire, 249-250.

INITIALLY DIFFERENT DATES FOR MEMORIAL OF HIS BIRTH

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“The Oriental Christians kept the memorial of the Saviour’s birth and of his baptism, on one and the same day, namely, the sixth day of January; and this day they called Epiphany. But the Occidental Christians always consecrated the 25th day of December to the memory of the Saviour’s birth. For, what is reported of Julian I, the Roman bishop’s transferring the memorial of Christ’s birth from the 6th day of January to the 25th of December, appears to me very questionable.”— John Laurence von Mosheim, D.D. Institutes of Ecclesiastical History, book 2, cent. 4, part 2, chap. 4, sec. 5 (Vol. I, 372-373). London: Longman & Co., 1841.

WHEN CHRISTMAS WAS FIRST OBSERVED

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“The first footsteps we find of the observation of this day are in the second century, about the time of the emperor Commodus.”—Charles Buck, A Theological Dictionary, “Christmas,” Philadelphia: Crissy and Markley, copyright 1851, 71.

CHRISTMAS NOT AN OFFICIALLY ACCEPTED CHURCH DAY UNTIL THE FOURTH CENTURY

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“It is now generally granted that the day of the nativity was not observed as a feast in any part of the church, east or west, till some time in the fourth century. If any day had been earlier fixed upon as the Lord’s birthday, it was not commemorated by any religious rites, nor is it mentioned by any writers.”—Samuel J. Andrews, The Life of Our Lord Upon the Earth, New York: Charles Scribner’s Sons, 1891, 17.

 

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CHRISTMAS - Many have suggested a connection between Hanukkah and Christmas since both celebrations fall on the 25th of the month (Kislev/December). Although the Bible records the birth of the Messiah, no biblical basis exists for the date or observance of the Messiah's birthday. In fact, for more than three centuries, the early Church viewed the celebration of birthdays as a heathen custom.

Yet, the dates of Hanukkah and Christmas are connected. Zeus was seen as the incarnation of the sun. Together with his goddess-mother, Rhea (the Queen of Heaven), they formed the Greek version of the mother/child cult founded in Babylon. Antiochus chose the 25th of the month to desecrate the Temple with his pagan sacrifice because it was the birthday of Zeus. It was the winter solstice, when days began to lengthen. Sun-worshiping pagans, therefore, celebrated December 25 as the birthday of the new sun.

To the sun-worshiping Romans, Zeus was known as Jupiter. He was the son of Saturn and Ops. He was the supreme Roman deity and the father of the other pagan gods. December 17-24 was called Saturnalia (in honor of Saturn) and celebrated with unrestrained license. The Romans celebrated December 25th (the birthday of Zeus/Jupiter) as Dies Natalis Invicti Solis, "the Day of the Nativity of the Unconquered Sun".

In the fourth century A.D., the Roman Church chose December 25 as the day to celebrate "Christ's Mass," a special mass in honor of Christ's birth. It was part of a concerted effort to "Christianize" pagan Roman rites so that all peoples of the empire could be brought into the Roman Church.

For centuries, many segments of Christianity condemned the observance of December 25 as sun worship. A.H. Newman writes: "Christian preachers of the West and the Nearer East protested against the unseemly frivolity with which Christ's birthday was celebrated, while Christians of Mesopotamia accused their Western brethren of idolatry and sun-worship for adopting as Christian this pagan festival. Yet the festival rapidly gained acceptance and became, at last, so firmly established that even the Protestant revolution of the sixteenth century was not able to dislodge it" (The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, pg 48)

From the book "The Feasts of the Lord" by Kevin Howard and Marvin Rosenthal Pg 172

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