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Babylon, the Harlot and the Seven Headed Beast Explained.


Revelation Man

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25 minutes ago, Salty said:

It was Sumer when the "mystery school" type cult began. It continued to ancient Babylon and Assyria, and then to all the lands of history. Indeed the western pagan worship in pagan Rome, Greece, and Scandinavia were based on the old Baal worship.

 

Happy to see others who realize that Baal became Bel, which became Belios/Zeus to the Greeks and basically Jupiter to the Romans. The part in Revelation where Jesus speaks about the Church of Pergamos being where the Satan's Seat is, we know that the Romans had a Temple to Zeus/Jupiter there, and that was what Jesus was referring to. By the way, a German Scientist did a tel/dig and unearthed that place in circa 1870, and they then moved the Temple to Zeus piece by piece to Berlin and rebuilt it in 1910. Then in the late 20's OR EARLY 30'S Hitler built an EXACT REPLICA in Nuremberg and that is where he gave 50 percent of his crazed speeches from, the Alter of Zeus.............I know, weird.LOL

39 minutes ago, Salty said:

The harlot of Revelation 17 is a "great city" we are told in the very last verse. It is NOT a religious system.

The "great city" is Jerusalem we are shown in Revelation 11:8 where our Lord Jesus was crucified. Christ is giving a comparison about Jerusalem like the one The Father gave in Ezekiel 16 regarding Jerusalem falling to false worship and thus playing the spiritual harlot against Him. God even first mentions how Jerusalem was originally the pagan city Jebus, a possession of the pagan Jebusites which God told Israel to destroy in Deut.20.

As you know, if you looked at my OP I disagree. Jerusalem and Babylon are GREAT CITIES....But BABYLON THE GREAT is what was imprinted on her forehead, THUS when John is told that woman you SAW is that GREAT CITY......He SAW Babylon the Great imprinted on her head.

I think Babylon is the "CODE WORD" for the Nations that come against Israel, the Anti-Christ, his 10 Kings, and the Kings of the East. God/John was not going to tell us who the countries actually were.....Spain, Germany, Italy etc. etc. That was never going to happen, so we were told IN CODE.

 

God Bless.

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27 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Actually the Reformers were the first to equate the RCC with Mystery Babylon, and they did know what they were talking about.  No amount of revisionist nonsense will change the fact that the RCC was corrupted with paganism and idolatry.  It would be far more honest for Catholic apologists to frankly admit this and then move forward (which would mean move out).

Martin Luther, the head of the Protestant rebellion, said nothing of such things against the pope or the RCC with his 95 Theses:

 

  1. When our Lord and Master Jesus Christ said, ``Repent'' (Mt 4:17), he willed the entire life of believers to be one of repentance.
  2. This word cannot be understood as referring to the sacrament of penance, that is, confession and satisfaction, as administered by the clergy.
  3. Yet it does not mean solely inner repentance; such inner repentance is worthless unless it produces various outward mortification of the flesh.
  4. The penalty of sin remains as long as the hatred of self (that is, true inner repentance), namely till our entrance into the kingdom of heaven.
  5. The pope neither desires nor is able to remit any penalties except those imposed by his own authority or that of the canons.
  6. The pope cannot remit any guilt, except by declaring and showing that it has been remitted by God; or, to be sure, by remitting guilt in cases reserved to his judgment. If his right to grant remission in these cases were disregarded, the guilt would certainly remain unforgiven.
  7. God remits guilt to no one unless at the same time he humbles him in all things and makes him submissive to the vicar, the priest.
  8. The penitential canons are imposed only on the living, and, according to the canons themselves, nothing should be imposed on the dying.
  9. Therefore the Holy Spirit through the pope is kind to us insofar as the pope in his decrees always makes exception of the article of death and of necessity.
  10. Those priests act ignorantly and wickedly who, in the case of the dying, reserve canonical penalties for purgatory.
  11. Those tares of changing the canonical penalty to the penalty of purgatory were evidently sown while the bishops slept (Mt 13:25).
  12. In former times canonical penalties were imposed, not after, but before absolution, as tests of true contrition.
  13. The dying are freed by death from all penalties, are already dead as far as the canon laws are concerned, and have a right to be released from them.
  14. Imperfect piety or love on the part of the dying person necessarily brings with it great fear; and the smaller the love, the greater the fear.
  15. This fear or horror is sufficient in itself, to say nothing of other things, to constitute the penalty of purgatory, since it is very near to the horror of despair.
  16. Hell, purgatory, and heaven seem to differ the same as despair, fear, and assurance of salvation.
  17. It seems as though for the souls in purgatory fear should necessarily decrease and love increase.
  18. Furthermore, it does not seem proved, either by reason or by Scripture, that souls in purgatory are outside the state of merit, that is, unable to grow in love.
  19. Nor does it seem proved that souls in purgatory, at least not all of them, are certain and assured of their own salvation, even if we ourselves may be entirely certain of it.
  20. Therefore the pope, when he uses the words ``plenary remission of all penalties,'' does not actually mean ``all penalties,'' but only those imposed by himself.
  21. Thus those indulgence preachers are in error who say that a man is absolved from every penalty and saved by papal indulgences.
  22. As a matter of fact, the pope remits to souls in purgatory no penalty which, according to canon law, they should have paid in this life.
  23. If remission of all penalties whatsoever could be granted to anyone at all, certainly it would be granted only to the most perfect, that is, to very few.
  24. For this reason most people are necessarily deceived by that indiscriminate and high-sounding promise of release from penalty.
  25. That power which the pope has in general over purgatory corresponds to the power which any bishop or curate has in a particular way in his own diocese and parish.
  26. The pope does very well when he grants remission to souls in purgatory, not by the power of the keys, which he does not have, but by way of intercession for them.
  27. They preach only human doctrines who say that as soon as the money clinks into the money chest, the soul flies out of purgatory.
  28. It is certain that when money clinks in the money chest, greed and avarice can be increased; but when the church intercedes, the result is in the hands of God alone.
  29. Who knows whether all souls in purgatory wish to be redeemed, since we have exceptions in St. Severinus and St. Paschal, as related in a legend.
  30. No one is sure of the integrity of his own contrition, much less of having received plenary remission.
  31. The man who actually buys indulgences is as rare as he who is really penitent; indeed, he is exceedingly rare.
  32. Those who believe that they can be certain of their salvation because they have indulgence letters will be eternally damned, together with their teachers.
  33. Men must especially be on guard against those who say that the pope's pardons are that inestimable gift of God by which man is reconciled to him.
  34. For the graces of indulgences are concerned only with the penalties of sacramental satisfaction established by man.
  35. They who teach that contrition is not necessary on the part of those who intend to buy souls out of purgatory or to buy confessional privileges preach unchristian doctrine.
  36. Any truly repentant Christian has a right to full remission of penalty and guilt, even without indulgence letters.
  37. Any true Christian, whether living or dead, participates in all the blessings of Christ and the church; and this is granted him by God, even without indulgence letters.
  38. Nevertheless, papal remission and blessing are by no means to be disregarded, for they are, as I have said (Thesis 6), the proclamation of the divine remission.
  39. It is very difficult, even for the most learned theologians, at one and the same time to commend to the people the bounty of indulgences and the need of true contrition.
  40. A Christian who is truly contrite seeks and loves to pay penalties for his sins; the bounty of indulgences, however, relaxes penalties and causes men to hate them -- at least it furnishes occasion for hating them.
  41. Papal indulgences must be preached with caution, lest people erroneously think that they are preferable to other good works of love.
  42. Christians are to be taught that the pope does not intend that the buying of indulgences should in any way be compared with works of mercy.
  43. Christians are to be taught that he who gives to the poor or lends to the needy does a better deed than he who buys indulgences.
  44. Because love grows by works of love, man thereby becomes better. Man does not, however, become better by means of indulgences but is merely freed from penalties.
  45. Christians are to be taught that he who sees a needy man and passes him by, yet gives his money for indulgences, does not buy papal indulgences but God's wrath.
  46. Christians are to be taught that, unless they have more than they need, they must reserve enough for their family needs and by no means squander it on indulgences.
  47. Christians are to be taught that they buying of indulgences is a matter of free choice, not commanded.
  48. Christians are to be taught that the pope, in granting indulgences, needs and thus desires their devout prayer more than their money.
  49. Christians are to be taught that papal indulgences are useful only if they do not put their trust in them, but very harmful if they lose their fear of God because of them.
  50. Christians are to be taught that if the pope knew the exactions of the indulgence preachers, he would rather that the basilica of St. Peter were burned to ashes than built up with the skin, flesh, and bones of his sheep.
  51. Christians are to be taught that the pope would and should wish to give of his own money, even though he had to sell the basilica of St. Peter, to many of those from whom certain hawkers of indulgences cajole money.
  52. It is vain to trust in salvation by indulgence letters, even though the indulgence commissary, or even the pope, were to offer his soul as security.
  53. They are the enemies of Christ and the pope who forbid altogether the preaching of the Word of God in some churches in order that indulgences may be preached in others.
  54. Injury is done to the Word of God when, in the same sermon, an equal or larger amount of time is devoted to indulgences than to the Word.
  55. It is certainly the pope's sentiment that if indulgences, which are a very insignificant thing, are celebrated with one bell, one procession, and one ceremony, then the gospel, which is the very greatest thing, should be preached with a hundred bells, a hundred processions, a hundred ceremonies.
  56. The true treasures of the church, out of which the pope distributes indulgences, are not sufficiently discussed or known among the people of Christ.
  57. That indulgences are not temporal treasures is certainly clear, for many indulgence sellers do not distribute them freely but only gather them.
  58. Nor are they the merits of Christ and the saints, for, even without the pope, the latter always work grace for the inner man, and the cross, death, and hell for the outer man.
  59. St. Lawrence said that the poor of the church were the treasures of the church, but he spoke according to the usage of the word in his own time.
  60. Without want of consideration we say that the keys of the church, given by the merits of Christ, are that treasure.
  61. For it is clear that the pope's power is of itself sufficient for the remission of penalties and cases reserved by himself.
  62. The true treasure of the church is the most holy gospel of the glory and grace of God.
  63. But this treasure is naturally most odious, for it makes the first to be last (Mt. 20:16).
  64. On the other hand, the treasure of indulgences is naturally most acceptable, for it makes the last to be first.
  65. Therefore the treasures of the gospel are nets with which one formerly fished for men of wealth.
  66. The treasures of indulgences are nets with which one now fishes for the wealth of men.
  67. The indulgences which the demagogues acclaim as the greatest graces are actually understood to be such only insofar as they promote gain.
  68. They are nevertheless in truth the most insignificant graces when compared with the grace of God and the piety of the cross.
  69. Bishops and curates are bound to admit the commissaries of papal indulgences with all reverence.
  70. But they are much more bound to strain their eyes and ears lest these men preach their own dreams instead of what the pope has commissioned.
  71. Let him who speaks against the truth concerning papal indulgences be anathema and accursed.
  72. But let him who guards against the lust and license of the indulgence preachers be blessed.
  73. Just as the pope justly thunders against those who by any means whatever contrive harm to the sale of indulgences.
  74. Much more does he intend to thunder against those who use indulgences as a pretext to contrive harm to holy love and truth.
  75. To consider papal indulgences so great that they could absolve a man even if he had done the impossible and had violated the mother of God is madness.
  76. We say on the contrary that papal indulgences cannot remove the very least of venial sins as far as guilt is concerned.
  77. To say that even St. Peter if he were now pope, could not grant greater graces is blasphemy against St. Peter and the pope.
  78. We say on the contrary that even the present pope, or any pope whatsoever, has greater graces at his disposal, that is, the gospel, spiritual powers, gifts of healing, etc., as it is written. (1 Co 12[:28])
  79. To say that the cross emblazoned with the papal coat of arms, and set up by the indulgence preachers is equal in worth to the cross of Christ is blasphemy.
  80. The bishops, curates, and theologians who permit such talk to be spread among the people will have to answer for this.
  81. This unbridled preaching of indulgences makes it difficult even for learned men to rescue the reverence which is due the pope from slander or from the shrewd questions of the laity.
  82. Such as: ``Why does not the pope empty purgatory for the sake of holy love and the dire need of the souls that are there if he redeems an infinite number of souls for the sake of miserable money with which to build a church?'' The former reason would be most just; the latter is most trivial.
  83. Again, ``Why are funeral and anniversary masses for the dead continued and why does he not return or permit the withdrawal of the endowments founded for them, since it is wrong to pray for the redeemed?''
  84. Again, ``What is this new piety of God and the pope that for a consideration of money they permit a man who is impious and their enemy to buy out of purgatory the pious soul of a friend of God and do not rather, beca use of the need of that pious and beloved soul, free it for pure love's sake?''
  85. Again, ``Why are the penitential canons, long since abrogated and dead in actual fact and through disuse, now satisfied by the granting of indulgences as though they were still alive and in force?''
  86. Again, ``Why does not the pope, whose wealth is today greater than the wealth of the richest Crassus, build this one basilica of St. Peter with his own money rather than with the money of poor believers?''
  87. Again, ``What does the pope remit or grant to those who by perfect contrition already have a right to full remission and blessings?''
  88. Again, ``What greater blessing could come to the church than if the pope were to bestow these remissions and blessings on every believer a hundred times a day, as he now does but once?''
  89. ``Since the pope seeks the salvation of souls rather than money by his indulgences, why does he suspend the indulgences and pardons previously granted when they have equal efficacy?''
  90. To repress these very sharp arguments of the laity by force alone, and not to resolve them by giving reasons, is to expose the church and the pope to the ridicule of their enemies and to make Christians unhappy.
  91. If, therefore, indulgences were preached according to the spirit and intention of the pope, all these doubts would be readily resolved. Indeed, they would not exist.
  92. Away, then, with all those prophets who say to the people of Christ, ``Peace, peace,'' and there is no peace! (Jer 6:14)
  93. Blessed be all those prophets who say to the people of Christ, ``Cross, cross,'' and there is no cross!
  94. Christians should be exhorted to be diligent in following Christ, their Head, through penalties, death and hell.
  95. And thus be confident of entering into heaven through many tribulations rather than through the false security of peace (Acts 14:22)."

If occultism was the problem the Reformers held against the RCC, Luther would have been first... to complain. Instead, most of his complaints centered around indulgences and supposed authority.

 

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29 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Actually the Reformers were the first to equate the RCC with Mystery Babylon, and they did know what they were talking about.  No amount of revisionist nonsense will change the fact that the RCC was corrupted with paganism and idolatry.  It would be far more honest for Catholic apologists to frankly admit this and then move forward (which would mean move out).

They can be a PART OF HER....Just as the Mormons and SDA can be. But I still think that Islam is by far the largest tentacle of the Harlot.

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4 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Happy to see others who realize that Baal became Bel, which became Belios/Zeus to the Greeks and basically Jupiter to the Romans. The part in Revelation where Jesus speaks about the Church of Pergamos being where the Satan's Seat is, we know that the Romans had a Temple to Zeus/Jupiter there, and that was what Jesus was referring to. By the way, a German Scientist did a tel/dig and unearthed that place in circa 1870, and they then moved the Temple to Zeus piece by piece to Berlin and rebuilt it in 1910. Then in the late 20's OR EARLY 30'S Hitler built an EXACT REPLICA in Nuremberg and that is where he gave 50 percent of his crazed speeches from, the Alter of Zeus.............I know, weird.LOL

As you know, if you looked at my OP I disagree. Jerusalem and Babylon are GREAT CITIES....But BABYLON THE GREAT is what was imprinted on her forehead, THUS when John is told that woman you SAW is that GREAT CITY......He SAW Babylon the Great imprinted on her head.

I think Babylon is the "CODE WORD" for the Nations that come against Israel, the Anti-Christ, his 10 Kings, and the Kings of the East. God/John was not going to tell us who the countries actually were.....Spain, Germany, Italy etc. etc. That was never going to happen, so we were told IN CODE.

 

God Bless.

It's OK to disagree with me, but I don't see how anyone could disagree with the Bible Scripture evidence that Jerusalem is spiritually put for the Babylon harlot at the end of this world. That is where Jesus, Paul, and John all showed the coming Antichrist/pseudo-Messiah is to appear, and proclaim himself as God. And Jerusalem certainly is not Rome.

 

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18 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Go read the Old Testament[..]

You cherry pick, you exclude what I say following, about the Prophecy of the Popes and muslims "Breaking the Cross", so what you reply with doesn't fit anything.

Besides.

"The kings of the earth committed fornication with the Harlot both because of the allure of her harlotries, but also because she “reigns over the kings of the earth.” "
This refers to 1 specific religion, not to many, and that suggest it would be the Catholic Church, that's the ONLY religion that are from the line of Jesus, that church that has killed about 50 mill people, that put false idols in the church, which Martin Luther removed. This church gives absolution which is only for god to give, they changed the 10 commandments, they have killed many martyrs and saints.

The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.  
Rome is the city of 7 Hills

There are also seven kings. Five are fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while.
Mussolini gave the Vatican sovereignty in 1929,  thus the Vatican is technically a kingdom. Pope Benedict XVI rule was short, only 8 years 2005 - 2013.

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4 minutes ago, Salty said:

It's OK to disagree with me, but I don't see how anyone could disagree with the Bible Scripture evidence that Jerusalem is spiritually put for the Babylon harlot at the end of this world. That is where Jesus, Paul, and John all showed the coming Antichrist/pseudo-Messiah is to appear, and proclaim himself as God. And Jerusalem certainly is not Rome.

 

Except, as I challenged someone on another site recently, there is no place in the bible that speaks about a FALSE MESSIAH coming to appear, the bible speaks about a Man of Sin, Beast.........The Anti-Christ he is really never called, and Anti- means against, not like unto. He will demand that all worship him, but Israel will have turned to Jesus/God before that happens, that is why they flee to where Jesus tells them to, the Wilderness, and God protects them. Scriptures says that Elijah will be sent to turn Israel back to God BEFORE THE DAY OF THE LORD....Which starts at the Abomination of Desolation imho. 

 

Rev. 16 spells it out clearly. God sees the Nations that come against Israel as Babylon....Rev. 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts(Jerusalem), and the cities of the nations fell:(Anti-Christ/10 Kings are GREAT BABYLON) and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

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13 minutes ago, Salty said:

If occultism was the problem the Reformers held against the RCC, Luther would have been first... to complain. Instead, most of his complaints centered around indulgences and supposed authority.

What Luther posted -- as a Catholic priest -- is not really relevant, and the focus on indulgences does not indicate anything.  One must look at the whole picture.

The Protestant Reformation was not the first movement that referred to the Pope as the Antichrist. There was a robust Medieval European tradition – from the Waldensians to Wycliffe, and down to the Hussites – that had denounced the Pope in such a radical way. This is why a recent Roman Catholic and Lutheran dialogue in the United States acknowledges this fact: “In calling the pope the ‘antichrist’ the early Lutherans stood in a tradition that reached back into the eleventh century. Not only dissidents and heretics but even saints had called the bishop of Rome the ‘antichrist’ when they wished to castigate his abuse of power”.[1] Even in this case the Reformers were not necessarily innovative but relied on previous strands of thought well attested for in Church history. Here is how John Calvin argued his case against the Papacy.
See more: 
http://evangelicalfocus.com/blogs/133/John_Calvin_and_the_Papacy

Also,

220px-Whore_of_Babylon_1522_Luther_New_T
 
Whore of Babylon wearing the papal tiara from a woodcut in Luther Bible

Historicist interpreters commonly used the phrase "Whore of Babylon" to refer to the Roman Catholic Church. Reformationwriters from Martin Luther (1483–1546) (who wrote On the Babylonian Captivity of the Church), John Calvin(1509–1564), and John Knox (1510–1572) (who wroteThe First Blast of the Trumpet Against the Monstruous Regiment of Women) taught this association.[31][32]

Most early Protestant Reformers believed, and the modern Seventh-day Adventist Church teaches, that in Bible prophecy a woman represents a church.[33][34] "I have likened the daughter of Zion To a lovely and delicate woman." (Jeremiah 6:2 nkjv) A harlot, it is argued, is representative of a church that has been unfaithful:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whore_of_Babylon#Reformation_view

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3 minutes ago, HexHammer said:

You cherry pick, you exclude what I say following, about the Prophecy of the Popes and muslims "Breaking the Cross", so what you reply with doesn't fit anything.

Besides.

I have seen all that before, I did not read it. I do not discount it, but it is pretty much irrelevant.

4 minutes ago, HexHammer said:

"The kings of the earth committed fornication with the Harlot both because of the allure of her harlotries, but also because she “reigns over the kings of the earth.” "
This refers to 1 specific religion, not to many, and that suggest it would be the Catholic Church, that's the ONLY religion that are from the line of Jesus, that church that has killed about 50 mill people, that put false idols in the church, which Martin Luther removed. This church gives absolution which is only for god to give, they changed the 10 commandments, they have killed many martyrs and saints.

Most Kings (Leaders of the World throughout history) have served what ? Not God, but MANY VARIOUS GODS why do you want to limit Gods Judgment of all BOGUS FALSE RELIGIONS ? If the RCC is a part of that SO BE IT, but shouldn't ISLAM be destroyed and judged also ? Shouldn't Buddhism be destroyed and Judged also ? and Witchcraft ? You have this thought that is in your mind, and it has to be that...........If you read my OP, I stated that I wrote a blog about Rev. 17:18 being ROME, then two months later, God showed me different, and I HAD TO CHANGE......Because my opinion is not important. I WROTE A BLOG saying it was Rome, if I had pride, I would have continue saying it was Rome, I ADMITTED I WAS NOT RIGHT. Because if God reveals something to me, I am all ears. The SAINTS COULD NOT HAVE BEEN MURDERED BY THE RCC. It is just not possible. And why mention the SAINTS and the Maryrs of Jesus ? One is Christians and so the other has to be Israel. The RCC had nothing to do with Israel/Jews/Saints.

13 minutes ago, HexHammer said:

The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits.  
Rome is the city of 7 Hills

FALSE FLAG.....The word is oro, meaning to REAR UP or RISE UP, and it has nothing to do with location, it is basically speaking about 7 Kings that arise. All we have to do is look at the very next verse, and it starts speaking about 7 Kings, 5 Have fallen, one is and one is YET TO COME. 

Rev. 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

So the SEVEN HEADS or the Beast the Woman sits on is the SEVEN MOUNTAINS....Which of course is Seven Kings, just like the next verse says. Each head is a Beast Kingdom. This has nothing to do with Seven Hills. These are Leaders/Kings who ARISE.

22 minutes ago, HexHammer said:

There are also seven kings. Five are fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while.
Mussolini gave the Vatican sovereignty in 1929,  thus the Vatican is technically a kingdom. Pope Benedict XVI rule was short, only 8 years 2005 - 2013.

The Seven are Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece (They had fallen by Johns time, EACH Conquered Israel) The one that WAS at Johns writing was of course Rome. And the one that is YET TO COME, of course is the Little Horn/Anti-Christ and 10 Kings. 

They are Beasts becaise the Conquer, Enslaved or Ruled Israel or its peoples. 

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26 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

[..]

If you want to know the true meaning of God, then you have to account for every little detail, else it will be lost. You are too selective and make irrelevant references. 

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20 minutes ago, HexHammer said:

If you want to know the true meaning of God, then you have to account for every little detail, else it will be lost. You are too selective and make irrelevant references. 

Yes, I have only been preaching for 25 years......I don't get things in my head, and become stuck on them. On the OP, I stated that I wrote a blog about this, and stated that imho, Rome was the city Mentioned in Rev. 17:18. Then God did a funny thing He likes to do sometimes, He whispered in my ear, Psstt, you know that blog you just wrote ? Well you were WRONG !! And I said, OK, What is the truth Lord, and this is how the Holy Spirit works. Its not about me, my Blog was wrong, SO WHAT...........

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