Babylon, the Harlot and the Seven Headed Beast Explained.

[Salty]

6 minutes ago, douggg said:

Of course the person who becomes the Antichrist is not the Pope.    The pope is not even qualified to become the Antichrist.    And on top of that why would the Pope's ten kings destroy the Pope's base of operations and organization - the Vatican?

That the Vatican will be destroyed is not implying that the Pope will be the Antichrist person.

Yet, he is not the false prophet that works miracles either.

The pope will simply be another deceived Christian leader among many in the last days, wrongly teaching the coming pseudo-Christ is our Lord Jesus.

 

[douggg]

42 minutes ago, Salty said:

Rev 12:3-4
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
KJV

That event of verse 4, about the third of stars (angels) being drawn to the earth by that dragon (Satan) sets the time of that beast of "seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns". That is NOT about the latter day beast kingdom, nor any other time except the time of Satan's original rebellion of old per Isaiah 14. That beast had only "seven crowns" if you'll note. The one in Rev.13 for the end is to have ten crowns. Yet, there that "seven heads" is with that old beast system that Satan originally rebelled with! So did that mean seven hills of Rome back then of old when Satan first rebelled? No, of course not. So that is another reason why we can't just arbitrarily assign the idea of 'seven hills' around city in place of our Lord Jesus' definition of "seven mountains" in Rev.17.

Salty, I have spoke about the crowns/no crowns probably more that anyone else at this site.   

Revelation 12 talks about a woman, right?    The first five verses of Revelation 12 are historic identifying the woman in the rest of Revelation 12 as Israel.

So we have the seven heads with crowns.   What does that indicate is the question?     First, it must be understood that Revelation 12 is about the 70th week relevant to Israel, the woman.     That's the overview of that chapter.

Revelation 12:6, 1260 days.   The first half of the seven years.    Then the war in heaven and Satan and his angels cast down for the time, times, half times in Revelation 12:14.    The second half of the seven years.

So, the seven heads have crowns - timestamped with the 70th week beginning in Revelation 12:6.     What that means is king 7 has come to power, and is ruling, completing the prophecy of the seven kings.       He has not yet been killed and brought back to life, to be possessed by the beast (a disembodied spirit) in the bottomless pit.     So the ten kings who rule with the beast don't have their crowns in Revelation 12.... like they do in Revelation 13.

Also because the beast is still in the bottomless pit at the beginning of the 7 years - we read Satan (the dragon) pictured.      The same goes for Revelation 17, timestamped at the first century, we read about John seeing the scarlet colored beast (Satan again).     The actual beast, that will partake in becoming the eighth king, was in the bottomless pit - and John had to be told that by the angel.     John at no time actually sees into the bottomless pit himself.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________The seven mountains refer to Rome, the Vatican because when the beast declares that he is God, the Vatican's position that Jesus is God will conflict with the beast's declaration - which the ten kings (leaders) of Europe, who have historically had to accommodate the Vatican for centuries for political reasons, will be motivated to burn the Vatican to the ground, ending the RCC.

 

 

 

[douggg]

1 hour ago, Salty said:

Yet, he is not the false prophet that works miracles either.

The pope will simply be another deceived Christian leader among many in the last days, wrongly teaching the coming pseudo-Christ is our Lord Jesus.

 

He will not be the false prophet, agreed.        The bible doesn't say what will happen to the Pope.

 

I am sorry, Salty, but I must stop this conversation for awhile.   My 93 year old mother, who I love very much, just died in the other room.    It is a sad day for me.

[Salty]

6 hours ago, douggg said:

Salty, I have spoke about the crowns/no crowns probably more that anyone else at this site.   

Revelation 12 talks about a woman, right?    The first five verses of Revelation 12 are historic identifying the woman in the rest of Revelation 12 as Israel.

Yes the first five verses are a summary about the "woman" representing Israel, I agree with that. But in verses 3-4 it is also including the event of Satan's original rebellion against God so as to be an easy identifier of who that "red dragon" is.

But no, the latter Rev.12 references to the woman after verse 7 is about Christ's Church to include 'believing' Israel. This is why Rev.12:11 says they overcame the dragon by the blood of The Lamb (Christ), pointing to the tribulation for the end since that is when the dragon is booted down to the earth with his angels and no more in Heaven to accuse us before God's throne.

 

6 hours ago, douggg said:

So we have the seven heads with crowns.   What does that indicate is the question?     First, it must be understood that Revelation 12 is about the 70th week relevant to Israel, the woman.     That's the overview of that chapter.

You don't get to the first 1260 days until verse 6, with verse 7 being about the war in Heaven with Satan and his angels booted down to this earth. The first 5 verses are a type of summary, from the time of Satan's original rebellion against God all the way to the future beyond us today when Jesus will reign over the nations with a rod of iron as promised.

So you need to back up... and consider that event given in Rev.12:3-4 about what the "red dragon" did, and when he did it, for that specific event happened of old, and is NOT about the events of the Book of Daniel 70 weeks prophecy.

 

6 hours ago, douggg said:

Revelation 12:6, 1260 days.   The first half of the seven years.    Then the war in heaven and Satan and his angels cast down for the time, times, half times in Revelation 12:14.    The second half of the seven years.

So, the seven heads have crowns - timestamped with the 70th week beginning in Revelation 12:6.     What that means is king 7 has come to power, and is ruling, completing the prophecy of the seven kings.       He has not yet been killed and brought back to life, to be possessed by the beast (a disembodied spirit) in the bottomless pit.     So the ten kings who rule with the beast don't have their crowns in Revelation 12.... like they do in Revelation 13.

You simply skipped the proper timing of the "red dragon" drawing a third of the stars to earth with him to include a beast that had ten horns, seven heads, and only seven crowns (Rev.12:3-4). It's pretty obvious you don't yet know what that passage means.

That event happened of old, and is NOT the same beast system of Rev.13:1-2 that is to have ten crowns. That's why that old beast system is mentioned PRIOR to verse 6. Beginning at verse 6 in Rev.12 is... the first mention of the 70th week prophecy from the Book of Daniel.

Simply, in the first 5 verses, there are several timeline jumps. And between verse 5 & 6 there is a timeline jump (from Christ's future reign back to the trib time).

 

Sorry bro, but you simply failed to address that Rev.12:3-4 event of old when Satan as that "red dragon" first rebelled against God. It's obvious you don't believe Satan's original rebellion even involved a beast kingdom like those verses reveal. Yet there it is, revealed by our Lord Jesus through His servant John. There are many Scriptures brethren wrestle with because they have preconceived notions that get in the way of reading the Scriptures as they are actually written.

None of the following is about the tribulation time, i.e., not about Daniel's 70th week:

Rev 12:1-5
12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

The view is from Heaven here. The sun and moon descriptors to the woman have first mention in Joseph's dream of Gen.37 about his mother and father, thus pointing to Israel. But to Israel 'when'? Per Apostle Paul in Rom.9, before either child was born, God said He loved Jacob but hated Esau. So this view in Heaven of Israel's election goes all the way back to the time when God ordained faithful Israel before the foundation of the world. The fact that Jacob and his wife understood the sun and moon symbols in Joseph's dream reveals this also (see Malachi 1 also).

 

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

This is about the beginning of this world, with Eve being the mother of the lineage that would birth our Lord Jesus.

 

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

These two verses are about Satan, and his rebellion of old when he drew a third of the angels into rebellion with him. And then at the start of this present world, he awaits the birth by the woman to try and prevent the birth of The Child. That attempt started first when Cain murdered Abel. In OT history, Satan continually tried to taint or destroy the bloodline that Jesus would be born through even down to Herod looking to kill baby Jesus.

 

5 And she brought forth a man Child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her Child was caught up unto God, and to His throne.
KJV

That is about our Lord Jesus when He was born through Mary's womb and then He ascended to The Father after His death and resurrection, awaiting the time in our future when He will rule all nations with that rod of iron.

After these first 5 verses, the timeline jumps to the 70th week Daniel prophecy.

 

[Salty]

6 hours ago, douggg said:

He will not be the false prophet, agreed.        The bible doesn't say what will happen to the Pope.

 

I am sorry, Salty, but I must stop this conversation for awhile.   My 93 year old mother, who I love very much, just died in the other room.    It is a sad day for me.

Sorry to hear about your mother. My condolences.

[douggg]

11 minutes ago, Salty said:

Sorry to hear about your mother. My condolences.

much appreciated.     It was not unexpected, it hurts just the same.    As the Lord liveth, I will see her again.  Blessed be the name of the Lord.     I just am going to take a day or two break from here.  

God bless.

[Guest Thallasa]

On ‎15‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 1:45 AM, douggg said:

I think the statue of liberty was a gift from France.     

Yes I believe it was ;  from the anti -christ government of the time, post revolution . 

[Guest Thallasa]

On ‎14‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 11:45 PM, angels4u said:

Thallasa the Pope is embracing all religions.. 

http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/pope-francis-now-urges-all-religions-to-unite/

It says Nothing about uniting religions ,or religious practices or beliefs . He was asking for people of all communities to unite against war .

"Blessed are the peacemakers " ,so be careful if yoy are a war monger ,you might just get what you asked for . 

[Revelation Man]

22 hours ago, Salty said:

Actually, in Daniel 7 the subject begins with his seeing four great beasts that come up out of the sea, each one being compared to an animal. Those are kingdoms like the one in Rev.13:1-2 that comes out of the sea. Even the idea of the ten horns (ten kings) is about the beast kingdom idea.

But I agree the "little horn" is about a beast king, the one defined in the Rev.17:8-10 Scripture. Yet Rev.17 is covering both, the beast kingdom idea, and the beast king idea, so one must learn to keep those separate in that Chapter, and likewise in Daniel 7.

 

This is pretty much 100 % accurate, except I do not understand why we must keep those Beast Kingdoms and the Beast King separate. That is what God was trying to show us in Rev. 17, he reduced the"KINGDOM" Angle to a King by using the Seven Heads are Seven Mountains  which are also SEVEN KINGS..... God wanted us to understand the Last Beast was a MAN.....Also in Rev. 13, the NUMBER is the number of a MAN (666). 

 

22 hours ago, Salty said:

I recognize the subject of the seven heads in Rev.17:9 being a different subject than the kings of Rev.17:10.

The seven heads we are told are seven mountains, not kings. I see the seven mountains as seven geographical areas on earth where 7 powers are setup. Recall per the Book of Daniel when the "little horn" comes up he will subdue 3 of the 1o kings. That leaves 7 kings. I believe the seven kings will rule over those seven mountains areas on the earth, and the 3 subdued kings will be over a triparte division of the earth. Those 3 subdued kings still rule with the beast king evidently, because Rev.17:12 verse says all ten receive power with the beast king for one hour, the "one hour" symbolizing the tribulation time.

(Mind you, the above has nothing to do with the idea of the 7 kings of Rev.17:10, of which John said 5 of them were already past history, and one still existed in his day, with the 7th yet to come.)

The word used for Mountain is oro, meaning to rear up or rise up. The very next verse says THEY ARE ALSO Seven Kings. 

Revelation 17:9 “Here is the mind with wisdom:[f] The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated. 10 They are also seven kings:[g] Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he comes, he must remain for a little while. 

The Seven Mountains she sits on is the EXACT SAME as the Seven Heads. THEY ARE ALSO SEVEN KINGS. She can sit on Heads that are Kingdoms but Mountains can't be Kings because we have it in out head they are SEVEN HILLS !! Even they it says they are ALSO Seven Kings. God wanted to change the KINGDOM ASPECT, and reduce it down to a MERE KING. Thus Heads are Kingdoms and Mountains represent a MERE KING THAT AROSE. The Last Beast will be a ONE MAN SHOW so to speak, he will not be in a succession of Kings, he will arise, and when he is destroyed, that will be the end of the age.

 

[Revelation Man]

On 1/14/2017 at 7:16 PM, simplejeff said:

This was known, by SCRIPTURE,  (not opinion) ,  by the 16th and 17th centuries, and widely disseminated then and since then.

Per last posts,  that one who went along with it,  has (apparently) only done so the last 20 years or so ( I'm sure a simple search would reveal this, as others have in the recent posts).

Remember though that one of the most popular, perhaps the best known, evangelists in the usa subjected himself to that before 1948 (and it was made known then,  and remained published until about 10 years ago, and also I did not ever mention it to anyone until he said so himself during a live broadcast, as did his son.  ) 

Too many people like him to do much about it though.

You say THIS WAS KNOW BY SCRIPTURE....But I am sorry, I didn't understand your point of emphasis, thus I didn't reply. And what was it that an evangelist subjected himself to, this is more mysterious than Revelation.