Do Pastors need a gun?

[Neighbor]

8 hours ago, The_Patriot2016 said:

Well..as far as racking a weapon goes, I have had several self defense experts including former spec ops tell me the absolute best home defense weapon, especially for someone with little to no training is a pump action shotgun. Why? Because the racking of a shell is usually more then ample to scare of most common criminals without having to fire. Second, while it "gives away" your position, and the scare factor isn't enough to chase the bozo out its now loaded, and in the small confines of a house, it's highly unlikely for you to miss, so giving away your position isn't something that's likely to hurt you, unless your up against a professional killer, in which case your probably dead whether or not there's a shell in the chamber.

Jeff Quinns word of wisdom on racking a shotgun went like something this, paraphrasing him;-" If you have faith that the sound of  racking a shotgun will be sufficient to protect you from an intruer, then don't buy a shotgun!  Buy a small recorder, record the sound of a racking shotgun, then play that  when an intruder enters your home." 

Now just how much faith do we have in that sound being sufficient deterrent? Shall we all go out an d buy little recorders?

Again, Quinn added; The first sound an intruder should possibly hear is the sound of the powder blasting just as the intruder sees the brilliant light of the muzzle flash.

Personally I disagree, for  the "intruder" is half likely to be someone in my family coming to get  an item or a fireman or a policeman coming to rescue me from my house afire that I don't yet know about. Perhaps it is better to avoid the commonest burglar entry by having alarms and learn to work in close with a  knife against an obvious attacker.

Yet; it has been 73 years to date and no need whatsoever. Thank you Lord. My time and method is known to my Lord,- probably will be the lungs that go as I did punish them so, many years ago as a smoker.

 

Edited December 15, 2016 by Neighbor

[Neighbor]

errant post- sorry

Edited December 15, 2016 by Neighbor

[The_Patriot21]

40 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Jeff Quinns word of wisdom on racking a shotgun went like something this, paraphrasing him;-" If you have faith that the sound of  racking a shotgun will be sufficient to protect you from an intruer, then don't buy a shotgun!  Buy a small recorder, record the sound of a racking shotgun, then play that  when an intruder enters your home." 

Now just how much faith do we have in that sound being sufficient deterrent? Shall we all go out an d buy little recorders?

Again, Quinn added; The first sound an intruder should possibly hear is the sound of the powder blasting just as the intruder sees the brilliant light of the muzzle flash.

Personally I disagree, for  the "intruder" is half likely to be someone in my family coming to get  an item or a fireman or a policeman coming to rescue me from my house afire that I don't yet know about. Perhaps it is better to avoid the commonest burglar entry by having alarms and learn to work in close with a  knife against an obvious attacker.

Yet; it has been 73 years to date and no need whatsoever. Thank you Lord. My time and method is known to my Lord,- probably will be the lungs that go as I did punish them so, many years ago as a smoker.

 

Because, just in case the sound doesn't work I'd rather have the live round. The best way to run a bluff is to be holding all the cards, and if you really don't want to kill anyone you got non lethal options with shotguns like bean bag rounds and rock salt.

[Neighbor]

Yep, could be!- BUT, I did have my house alarm go off recently  when I was  away from the house. When the police arrived I was right behind them. They did not rack any shotguns nor grab for  rubber ball shotgun rounds. They just  went into  a crouch  with their Glocks pointed and ran their assault search. They had stairs to climb and hard to negotiate rooms to go through. They weren't going to run a bluff of any kind.

Think if I have to face it someday, I won't want to risk ticking off some drug crazed violent person  with salt rock nor bean bags. It will be a deer slug or number two shot. Less of course I haven't had time to get to the Mossberg, in which case I'll just use the 32 small arms semi auto, until I reach the 9mm, with knife at hand.-   of course they might just want to share  a soda, then I'll offer a Vernor's Creme Soda first.

Seriously; may we each never have to  make any of those moves! May we each be blessed to live and to die in peace, as servants of our Lord and savior Jesus.

[The_Patriot21]

I do to. I though don't believe there's a black and white "this is what you should do" people should be ready to defend themselves but they should take into consideration what their conscience says and what their capabilities are. I'm not going to look down on anyone for refusing to own a gun, for any reason. There are many other ways, non lethal means, using your head is the number one tool no matter what method you use.

[HAZARD]

Thousands die on our roads every year and not one word from the government or the gun control people about banning cars?

 

[HAZARD]

My grown up daughters loved to hunt and fish with me, and can safely handle firearms no worries at all. I trained them from an early age.

[Sharnadeen]

On 12/12/2016 at 7:31 PM, The_Patriot2016 said:

I think everyone who can, should own a gun. And even from a ultra pacifist perspective, theres times where guns are needed. for example, my pastor is Bi-vocational, he also ranches full time. And a gun is a must on a ranch, to deal with varmints, put down sick animals, etc. He doesnt carry one in church, but its safe to say he owns several to assist in his trade. 

Now, with that said, I have no problem with people using guns to defend themselves. The argument "your faith will suffice" is kind of a weak argument, because the world is full of faithful people who get gunned down in the streets. Look at what happened to most of the apostles! and they were men of faith. Saying "your faith" is enough, is basically saying if something bad happens to you, you didnt have enough faith. its a bogus argument.

Fact is, God doesn't come down and strike people down with lightning. He uses people, to accomplish His goals. People. And He gives His PEOPLE the tools necessary, to do their job. There is a very strong case Biblically, for self defense, and the carrying of Weapons. I carry a handgun almost everywhere I go, including church, and if I think its ok for me to do so, then I have no problem with the pastor packing either.

 

Ok just to clarify, I said the Lord's Angels will suffice. The Lord's angels operate when we give them something to work with, and that it through prayer. Having faith without praying is futile. It is possible for an Apostle, Pastor and any leader to be armed if He does not Pray. So as it relates to your argument regarding Apostles being gunned down, it is highly possible that they did not cover themselves prior to the attack. The title that anyone wears in the body of Christ, does not guarantee one's protection. But prayer does...always....and in that way the Lord's angels do suffice.

[Sharnadeen]

On 12/13/2016 at 10:06 PM, Neighbor said:

My thought? My experience tells me everyone that finds need for defense might want to take weaponry training.

And that training had better include learning as best one can the legal consequence of using weaponry, as much as the training to use it effectively.

Should Elders teachers pastors priests etc. arm themselves? Up to them individually. BUT  the practical experiences of this world and including this country would lead me to arm myself  if I were teaching the word of God and making myself the target of many in so doing.

HOWEVER, I would not want to appear before my Lord and savior having to justify having killed a robber, over the potential loss of physical property. Nor would I want to face a local prosecutor to defend my action of shooting a thief either. I must know when it is property or my family that is at risk of loss. If it is my family, then all efforts will be used to stop the attack, we will sort the legalities out later.

Locally, we provide protection for our pastor, plus elders, deacons; and the whole local body of Christ when we gather. We protect our young as they receive education. We are not going to be unwise in caring for our own. 

Churches and Christian schools do receive threats, and in some cases real attacks. It is reality of the day.

 

p.s.

Let me add to the subject this question, what do you think is best, when a deranged noncustodial parent comes to grab a kid at a school. Do you think it is best to be unarmed and untrained  on how to try to stop the abduction and  just phone the local police authority? Or ...

Ok I appreciate your view on the subject. But I must say that any leader or Shepherd who doesn't practice what he preaches makes the word of God futile. I don't need a gun because when I pray I know that I am covered unless the Word of God is a lie. Prayer is key - Just because someone is a Pastor means that he is protected. Unless we or someone stand in the gap for us then we may be victims of premature death.

[Sharnadeen]

On 12/14/2016 at 5:53 PM, HAZARD said:

Here's why one needs to defend ones self. This man is lucky to be alive. Australians are not allowed to own a firearm purely for self defence? Our courts are too lenient and let criminals out to offend again and again.

Man accused of bashing a 93 year old Geelong man insists he’s not dangerous.

 

AND HE GETS BAIL.

A 19-year-old man charged over allegedly bashing an elderly Geelong man in a terrifying home invasion insists he “wouldn’t hurt anyone”.
Kyle Elston was today a free man after a magistrate yesterday granted him bail over the alleged beating 93-year-old Wally Janeczko in August.
Some of Mr Janeckzko’s credit cards and cash were also allegedly stolen in the home invasion.

“I’m not a dangerous person,” Mr Elston told 9NEWS.
“I’m not a bad person, I don’t do bad things, I wouldn’t hurt anyone.”
Mr Janeczko was sitting his lounge room when an armed intruder allegedly burst into his Chaucer Street home, bashing him for around 15 minutes.

His pants were allegedly slashed with a knife as the intruder made off with the contents of his pocket, including $350 in cash.
Mr Elston spent three months in custody and was yesterday released from Port Phillip Prison.
The magistrate acknowledged a plan was in place to address the accused’s drug addiction issues, which Mr Elston’s sister Charmaine said started after he was given a “go at the crack pipe one night”.

“That’s how he got introduced into ice,” she said.
Ms Elston coaxed her brother into an apology on camera, with Mr Elston addressing Mr Janeczko directly.
“I’m sorry mate for what happened but I didn’t do it to you,” Mr Elston said.
Mr Elston will return to court in January.

Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/2016/12/14/19/13/man-accused-of-bashing-elderly-geelong-man-insists-hes-not-dangerous#ZbTq9UeXEyor6wIB.99

If our battles are won in the spirit first, then there will be no need to fight it in the flesh and even if we are put to the test, the Lord promises to deliver. We must understand that there are conditions that we must meet when it comes to getting favor from the Lord; He tells us to pray, to keep His commandments, to repent etc...Prayer is most important. Again, the battle has to be won in the realm of the Spirit first and if that is done, chances are that the person who prayed would not be severely injured if injured at all.