stars

[HAZARD]

"sons of God shouted for joy."

These were angels (Job 38:7. Man was not yet created before God laid the cornerstone and the foundations of the Earth.

Job 38: 4, Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast2 understanding.
Job 38: 5, Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38: 6, Whereupon are the foundations3 thereof fastened ? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

Again, Man was not yet created before God laid the cornerstone and the foundations of the Earth.

 

Job 1:6, Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among6 them.  

Job 2:1, Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.  

Men do not present themselves before the Lord

Gen. 6:1-2, 1, And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
    2, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

These sons of God were angels. Seth did not have a son until 235 years after creation, and his sons did not have a son until 325 years after creation (Gen. 5:3, 6:9).

Where did these sons of God come from? They could not have been sons of Seth, for these marriages took place when men began to multiply - in the very beginning of the race before Seth had sons of marriageable age. The term "Sons of God proves they were a product of God, not Seth.

They were the fallen angels of 1 Peter 3:19; 2 Peter 2:4; Jude 6-7.

Jude 6, And the angels which kept not their first estate,10 but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
 Jude 7, Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange11 flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

"The morning stars."

These are the infinite suns out in space which are suns to other planets like our sun is to our earth and its related planets. This passage proves that the whole of the heavens was created before the earth itself or these stars would not have been singing when God laid the foundations of the earth (V. 7).

That the material creations do sing and speak their own languages is plainly stated in Ps.19 and many other scriptures. In fact, all creations have some means of communication with one another and with God and man. This will be more in evidence after the curse is removed from all creation (Rom. 8:21-24; Rev. 22:3).

"sons of God shouted for joy."

These were angels (Job 38:7 ; Job 1:6 ; Job 2:1)

 

[Retrobyter]

7 hours ago, HAZARD said:

"sons of God shouted for joy."

These were angels (Job 38:7. Man was not yet created before God laid the cornerstone and the foundations of the Earth.

Job 38: 4, Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast2 understanding.
Job 38: 5, Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38: 6, Whereupon are the foundations3 thereof fastened ? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

Again, Man was not yet created before God laid the cornerstone and the foundations of the Earth.

Shalom, HAZARD.

The Man (haAdam) was created before THIS laying of the corner stone and the foundations, the corner stone and the foundations THAT WOULD NOT BE REMOVED! 

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Job 1:6, Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.  

Job 2:1, Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.  

Men do not present themselves before the Lord

They most certainly DID, and they STILL DO! LOOK:

Deuteronomy 31:14-15
14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thy days approach that thou must die: call Joshua, and present yourselves in the tabernacle of the congregation, that I may give him a charge. And Moses and Joshua went, and presented themselves (Hebrew: Mosheh vi-Yhowshu`a vhityatsVuw) in the tabernacle of the congregation.
15 And the LORD (Hebrew: YHWH) appeared in the tabernacle in a pillar of a cloud: and the pillar of the cloud stood over the door of the tabernacle.
KJV

These are the SAME HEBREW WORDS!

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Gen. 6:1-2, 1, And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
    2, That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

These sons of God were angels. Seth did not have a son until 235 years after creation, and his sons did not have a son until 325 years after creation (Gen. 5:3, 6:9).

Where did these sons of God come from? They could not have been sons of Seth, for these marriages took place when men began to multiply - in the very beginning of the race before Seth had sons of marriageable age. The term "Sons of God proves they were a product of God, not Seth.

They were the fallen angels of 1 Peter 3:19; 2 Peter 2:4; Jude 6-7.

Jude 6, And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
 Jude 7, Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Nonsense. How does a "ministering spirit" (Hebrews 1:14) reproduce with a human being?! The whole thing is ludicrous. Furthermore, you're not reading the Scriptures correctly.

Genesis 4:9-6:8
4:9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
11 And now art thou cursed from the earth (Hebrew: haa'adaamaah = "the-red-soil"), which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
12 When thou tillest the ground (Hebrew: haa'adaamah = "the-red-soil"), it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth (Hebrew: baa'aarets = "IN-the-land").
13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear (more than I deserve).
14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth (Hebrew: geerashtaa otiy hayowm mee`al pneey haa’adaamaah uwmipaaneykhaa esaateer vhaayiytiy naa` vaanaad baa’aarets = "you-have-expelled me this-day from [the]-[sur]face of-the-red-soil and-from-your-face shall-I-be-hidden and-I-shall-be a-wanderer and a-fugitive within-the-earth/ground/land); and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod (Hebrew: b'erets Nowd = "in-land of-Exile"), on the east of Eden.
17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch (Hebrew: Chanowkh = "a-narrow-place").
18 And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech.
19 And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.
20 And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle. (He was no longer within Chanowkh.)
21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubal-cain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron (still a worker of metals and a teacher of the same trade): and the sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah (believed by Rabbis to be mentioned because she became Noah's wife).
23 And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt.
24 If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold.

25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.
26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD (that is, to use the LORD'S name as a talisman).

5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth: (We don't know if Adam had other children within this 130 years; Sheet [pronounced "shate," Seth] was to be Adam's heir of the promise.)
4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters: (Within the whole time of his 930 years, he begat sons and daughters.)
5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
6 And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:
7 And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:
8 And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.
9 And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan:
10 And Enos lived after he begat Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters:
11 And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died.
12 And Cainan lived seventy years, and begat Mahalaleel:
13 And Cainan lived after he begat Mahalaleel eight hundred and forty years, and begat sons and daughters:
14 And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died.
15 And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared:
16 And Mahalaleel lived after he begat Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters:
17 And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died.
18 And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:
19 And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.
21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
25 And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech:
26 And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:
27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.
28 And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:
29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This same shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.
30 And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters:
31 And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.
32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.
6:1 And it came to pass, when men (Hebrew: haa'aadaam = [those-of]-the-red-man) began to multiply (Hebrew: laaroV = "to-cast-together; to-increase-in-number," not generally "to-procreate") on the face of the earth (Hebrew: `al pneey haa'adaamaah = "upon the-[sur]face of-the-red-ground"), and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men (Hebrew: bnowt haa'aadaam = "daughters of-the-red-man") that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose (that is, they FORCEFULLY SEIZED themselves wives from all which they tested).
3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. (That is, they had 120 years left before the Flood. This would be, conservatively speaking, at least 1,536 years since Adam was created.)
4 There were giants (Hebrew: nefaliym = "fellers [of trees]" or "loggers" or "lumberjacks") in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God (Hebrew: bneey haa'Elohiym = "sons of-the-God") came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown. (This term "sons of the God" could easily be a term of prejudice for themselves who were "allowed to live upon the surface of the ground under the face of God" while Qayin's children and grandchildren, who were merely "men," lived underground in Chanowkh.)
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
KJV

Genesis 7:6
6 And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.
KJV

(130+105+90+70+65+162+65+187+182+600)-120 = 1656-120 = 1536. That's MORE than enough time to produce MILLIONS of people upon the earth prior to the Flood.

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"The morning stars."

These are the infinite suns out in space which are suns to other planets like our sun is to our earth and its related planets. This passage proves that the whole of the heavens was created before the earth itself or these stars would not have been singing when God laid the foundations of the earth (V. 7).

I'm not going to debate you on this point because, frankly, the Creation account of Genesis 1 and 2 is the creation of this planet's BIOSPHERE, not the whole Universe! However, there are two words in Hebrew that one should not dismiss: "Vaya`as Elohiym ... v'eet hakowkhaaViym." "And-made God ... and-(direct-object-follows) the-stars." Literally, "hakowkhaaViym" means "the-round-objects." This term includes EVERYTHING outside of the "greater light" and the "lesser light" that we see in the sky!

The term "the morning stars" in Hebrew is "kowkhVeey boqer" meaning "round-objects of-dawn." Furthermore, you may want to consider Strong's definition of "sing" carefully:

OT:7442 raanan (raw-nan'); a primitive root; properly, to creak (or emit a stridulous sound), i.e. to shout (usually for joy):
KJV - aloud for joy, cry out, be joyful (greatly, make to) rejoice, (cause to) shout (for joy), (cause to) sing (aloud, for joy, out), triumph.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

Be really careful about the personification of inanimate objects in English translations. It might make for "good poetry," but it may not be quite as accurate as God would have liked. And, that includes Psalm 19 mentioned below:

Quote

That the material creations do sing and speak their own languages is plainly stated in Ps.19 and many other scriptures. In fact, all creations have some means of communication with one another and with God and man. This will be more in evidence after the curse is removed from all creation (Rom. 8:21-24; Rev. 22:3).

"sons of God shouted for joy."

These were angels (Job 38:7 ; Job 1:6 ; Job 2:1)

PEOPLE shouted for joy that God chose to renew the earth after destroying it with the Flood!

[RevelationWriter]

- Retrobyter, as you state the whole thing of angels to reproduce with humans to be ludicrous.

I would Question you of God, yet Who Is Spirit, did He not do that exact thing (?)

I'm not sure at this time how one can slice up this analogy but

maybe now anyway your understanding could be reformed from the situation being 'ludicrous'.

[RevelationWriter]

- When I've pondered what Jesus meant when He referred to the Angels of the 7 Assemblies being Stars?

I think back to when Moses stood in God's presence on the mountain

coming down to the people he Glowed from, or with, the light of God.

- I would think that Angels who stand in God's presence as well also Glow from the light God being upon them too.

- As Paul had a reference to Angels glowing when he stated the phrase "Angel Of Light".

With this said, as a side note,

I've also come to believe that The Star Of Bethlehem was really an Angel as well. But that's just my personal belief I guess.

God being Spirit and creating all things physical from His being, or knowledge to them. 

I can see how He references the natural after, or unto spiritual things many times.

- Often we reference a Star with points, some with 4 points, 6 points and some with 5 points and more. 

Well seeing the form of humans and Angels in God's image there are 5 points of extremities as well.

So the the wise men followed the star in the sky and if it was an Angel there would have been 5 points of lights of their extremities.

Causing them to see the glowing Angel as a Star.

 

* So anyway, I ponder on . . .

 

 

 

 

[HAZARD]

I posted;

Job 38: 4, Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast2 understanding.
Job 38: 5, Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38: 6, Whereupon are the foundations3 thereof fastened ? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

 

Retrobyter "The Man (haAdam) was created before THIS laying of the corner stone and the foundations, the corner stone and the foundations THAT WOULD NOT BE REMOVED! 

"

Can you back this above statement you posted with a Scripture please?

God never created man until Genesis 1:26, And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

After he had created everything else.

.

[Retrobyter]

5 hours ago, RevelationWriter said:

- Retrobyter, as you state the whole thing of angels to reproduce with humans to be ludicrous.

I would Question you of God, yet Who Is Spirit, did He not do that exact thing (?)

I'm not sure at this time how one can slice up this analogy but

maybe now anyway your understanding could be reformed from the situation being 'ludicrous'.

Shalom, RevelationWriter.

No, God, who is indeed Spirit, is also the One and Only CREATOR. What He did with Yeshua`s "incarnation" (actually, His conception) was an act of CREATION! And, THAT is something no "angel" can do!

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, HAZARD said:

I posted;

Job 38: 4, Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38: 5, Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38: 6, Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;

 

1 hour ago, HAZARD said:

Retrobyter "The Man (haAdam) was created before THIS laying of the corner stone and the foundations, the corner stone and the foundations THAT WOULD NOT BE REMOVED! 

"

Can you back this above statement you posted with a Scripture please?

God never created man until Genesis 1:26, And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

After he had created everything else.

Shabbat shalom, HAZARD.

Sure, I'd be happy to oblige. The answer is to be found in the fact that this "laying of the foundations and the corner stone" in Job 38:4-6 is NOT the original Creation of this earth! It's the RE-CREATION of this earth AFTER the Flood!

First, consider the amount of damage that the earth suffered:

Genesis 7:11-12, 17-20
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
...

17 And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven (Hebrew: tachat kaal hashaamaayim = "under all the-[2]-skies"), were covered.
20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
KJV

This was a GLOBAL event. The reason why they knew that the Flood rose 15 cubits higher than the mountains was because this was the CLEARANCE of the water displaced by the ark! In other words, it was AT LEAST 15 cubits over the height of the then-existing mountains because the ark didn't scrape bottom going over them! "ALL the fountains of the great deep" implies that EVERY subterranean source of water contributed to the Flood. This would lead to volcanism and movements of the techtonic plates leading to seaquakes.

We are given additional information in Psalm 104:

Psalm 104:1-35
1 Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
3 Who layeth the beams (Hebrew: Hamqaareh ="Who brought about") of his chambers (Hebrew: aliyowtaayow = "his-lofty-[place]") in the waters (Hebrew: bamayim = "in-[2]-waters"): who maketh the clouds (Hebrew: `aaViym = "dark, scud clouds") his chariot (Hebrew: rkuwVow = "his-vehicle"): who walketh upon the wings of the wind:
(Clouds did not occur before the Flood. Instead, "there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground." - Gen. 2:6)
4 Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever. (The original foundations were indeed "removed" during the Flood.)
6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains. (This is DEFINITELY talking about the global Flood!)
7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away. (The waters receded.)
8 They go up by the mountains (Hebrew: ya`aluw hahariym = "the-mountains ascended"); they go down by the valleys (Hebrew: yeerduw bqaa`uwt = "splits [between mountains] descended") unto the place which thou hast founded for them.
9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth. (This "bound" is the continental shelves.)
10 He sendeth the springs into the valleys, which run among the hills.
11 They give drink to every beast of the field: the wild asses quench their thirst.
12 By them shall the fowls of the heaven have their habitation, which sing among the branches.
13 He watereth the hills from his chambers: the earth is satisfied with the fruit of thy works.
14 He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth;
15 And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.
16 The trees of the LORD are full of sap; the cedars of Lebanon, which he hath planted;
17 Where the birds make their nests: as for the stork, the fir trees are her house.
18 The high hills are a refuge for the wild goats; and the rocks for the conies.
19 He appointed the moon for seasons: the sun knoweth his going down.
20 Thou makest darkness, and it is night: wherein all the beasts of the forest do creep forth.
21 The young lions roar after their prey, and seek their meat from God.
22 The sun ariseth, they gather themselves together, and lay them down in their dens.
23 Man goeth forth unto his work and to his labour until the evening.
24 O LORD, how manifold are thy works! in wisdom hast thou made them all: the earth is full of thy riches.
25 So is this great and wide sea, wherein are things creeping innumerable, both small and great beasts.
26 There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein.
27 These wait all upon thee; that thou mayest give them their meat in due season.
28 That thou givest them they gather: thou openest thine hand, they are filled with good.
29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.
30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.
31 The glory of the LORD shall endure for ever: the LORD shall rejoice in his works.
32 He looketh on the earth, and it trembleth: he toucheth the hills, and they smoke.
33 I will sing unto the LORD as long as I live: I will sing praise to my God while I have my being.
34 My meditation of him shall be sweet: I will be glad in the LORD.
35 Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the LORD, O my soul. Praise ye the LORD.
KJV

So thoroughly and violently did the earth change, that Peter gave us this information:

2 Peter 3:3-7
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. (This is called "uniformitarianism" today.)
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water (the waters below the sky) and in the water (within the waters above the sky):
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: (The society that existed before the Flood perished in the Flood.)
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
KJV

Thus, he recognized these two earths and their skies being so different as to be two different ages of men.

Now, when we look closely at Job 38, we see this same information:

Job 38:1-20
1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,

2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof (Hebrew: adaaneyhaa = "its-footings") fastened (Hebrew: taaba' = "sunk")? or who laid the corner stone thereof (Hebrew: eben pinaataah = "its-pinnacle stone," presumably upon its highest mountain);
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.
16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?
18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.
19 Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof,
20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?
KJV

Thus, surrounding this verse 7 are evidences for the time of the FLOOD!

[RevelationWriter]

11 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, RevelationWriter.

No, God, who is indeed Spirit, is also the One and Only CREATOR. What He did with Yeshua`s "incarnation" (actually, His conception) was an act of CREATION! And, THAT is something no "angel" can do!

- Oh yeah of course I can believe that.

- And what does the word Incarnation mean?

Thanks

[Retrobyter]

3 hours ago, RevelationWriter said:

- Oh yeah of course I can believe that.

- And what does the word Incarnation mean?

Thanks

Shabbat shalom, RevelationWriter.

"Incarnation" means "a person who embodies in the flesh a deity, spirit, or abstract quality." The problem with the word is that Yeshua` (Jesus) was said to be "God incarnate." Now "incarnate" is said to originate from "late Middle English: from ecclesiastical Latin incarnat-  ‘made flesh,’ from the verb incarnare, from in-  ‘into’ + caro, carn-  ‘flesh.’" 

IF the word remains defined in a person's mind as "God MADE flesh in Yeshua`," then we're fine; but, ...

people will often define the term as "PUT in flesh," and this is wrong. Yeshua` was NOT "God PUT in flesh." That's not what the Scriptures say:

John 1:1, 14
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
...
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
KJV

The Greek of the first phrase in verse 14 is "Kai ho Logos sarx egeneto," and "egeneto" comes from

NT:1096 ginomai (ghin'-om-ahee); a prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb; to cause to be ("gen"- erate), i.e. (reflexively) to become (come into being), used with great latitude (literal, figurative, intensive, etc.):
KJV - arise, be assembled, be (-come, -fall, -haveself), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass), continue, be divided, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled,  God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be published, require, seem, be showed,  soon as it was, sound, be taken, be turned, use, wax, will, would, be wrought.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

It IS a technicality; however, it's an IMPORTANT technicality! We can, therefore, say "The Word BECAME flesh," but that does NOT mean that He was "PUT INTO flesh." That's why I avoid the word "incarnation."

[RevelationWriter]

- Okay thanks.

I no longer believe God came in the flesh as Jesus.

I believe "The Word Became Flesh' and Or was made flesh.

- But I do believe Jesus is god because He came forth from God.

For even Jesus said (as the word of God) that in their Law the Jews are gods.

Being also that their God in the O.T. was praised as "The God Of gods".

Meaning them to have been Immortal as their God and Father. Making them 'gods' too.

Jesus being "The Only Begotten god" - John 1:18 (Greek)

- Anyway, when Jesus said

"if you are willing to receive it, (John the Baptist) is Elijah who was to come." - Matt.11:14

So then Elijah was incarnate as John The Baptist?

- And when Jesus ask His Disciples who do men say He is.

They answered that men say Jesus The Son Of Man, is one of The Prophets?

Did they believe too as Jesus said, one Prophet could be Incarnate as one of The Prophets as well?

Seeing Jesus called Himself The Son Of Man when The Prophet Ezekiel is also called Son Of Man.

Sorry, I just ponder on . . .