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2 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Explain these Scriptural differences!

There were two great floods on the Earth. The first where God destroyed His original creation because of Lucifers rebellion, and the second, Noah's flood because of mans rebellion.

Lucifers flood, everything was destroyed, all life, no light, the earth made empty and void.

Noah's flood, all life was not destroyed. Noah, his wife, his sons and their wives were left alive, plus all animals and the sun and moon was not prevented from giving light.

Here are all the Scriptures proving this occurred, read them for yourself then believe them or not??

Noahs flood which I will post as . 'N.F.' Lucifers flood, L.F.

L.F. Earth made waste (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Earth not made waste (Gen. 8:11-12, 22 ; Heb. 11:7 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. Earth made empty (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23).
N.F. Earth not made empty (Gen. 6:18-22 ; 8:16).

L.F. Earth made totally dark (Gen. 1:2-5 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Not made totally dark (Gen. 8:6-22)

L.F. No light from heaven (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Light from heaven (Gen. 8:6-22).

L.F. No day and night (Gen. 1:2-5).
N.F. Day and night (Gen. 8:1-22).

L.F. All vegetation destroyed (Gen. 1:2 ; 2:5-6 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Vegetation not destroyed (Gen. 8:11, 21 ; 9:3, 20).

L.F. No continued abating of the waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Continued abating of the waters from the earth by evaporation (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. Waters taken off the earth in one day (Gen. 1:10).
N.F. Months of waters abating off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. God supernaturally takes waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Natural work of evaporation of the waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. No rebuke or miraculous work in fled away (Gen. 1:6-12 ; Ps. 104:7).
N.F. No rebuke or miraculous work is taking waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. The waters on earth in Gen. 1:2, hasted away when rebuked (Gen. 1:6-2 ; Ps. 104:9).
N.F. The bounds already eternally set for waters in Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. All fish were totally destroyed in flood of Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. No fish were destroyed of created again after Noah's flood (Gen. 1:20-23 ; 6:18-22).

L.F. No Fowls left on the earth after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Fowls were left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:7-17).

L.F. No animals left after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Some of all animals kept alive (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:17 ; 9:2-4, 10-16).

L.F. No man left on earth in (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Eight men and women left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:18 ; 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No social system left at all in (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. A social system left after Noah's flood (Gen. 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No ark made to save men in (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. An ark made to save men and animals alive (Gen. 6:8-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16 ; Heb. 11:7).

L.F. Cause: fall of Lucifer, now Satan (Isa. 14:12-14; Jer. 4:23-26; Ezek. 28:11-17 ; Luke 10:18).
N.F. Cause: wickedness of men (Gen. 6:5-13) ; and fallen angels (Gen. 6:1-4; Jude 6-7 ; 2 Pet. 2:4).

L.F. Result: became necessary to make new life on earth (Gen. 1:3-2 : 25 ; Isa. 45:18 ; Eph. 3:11).
N.F. Results: no new creation made, for all men and animals were not destroyed (Gen. 6:18-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16).

The original creations of God include the heavens and the Earth and all things therein as first brought into being. This period is summed up in Gen. 1:1. thus: "In the beginning God created the heaven [Hebrew, heavens] and the earth." This refers to the dateless past, and takes in only a part of the creative ages, that is, from the beginning of creation until the chaotic period of Gen. 1:2 when the Earth and its first inhabitants were destroyed by the first flood. Notice during Noahs flood not all inhabitants , vegetation, animals, day, night were destroyed.

There are many other passages in Scripture that refer to that period (Job. 38; Ps. 8:3-8; 19:1-6; Prov. 8:22-31; John 1:3,10; Acts 17:24-26; Col. 1:15-18; Heb. 1:1-12; 11:3; Rev. 4:11).

I'll post more tomorrow, I have to leave.

Shalom, HAZARD.

Look, brother, we've already talked about Jeremiah 4:23-26, and since these verses DO NOT talk about some "pre-Adamic flood," these verses must be removed from your list.

We've talked about the silence of Genesis 1 for such a "pre-Adamic flood"; so, these verses, too, must be removed from your list.

I've pointed out that 2 Peter 3:3-13 is about the TWO catastrophes that were to come, THE (ONE) FLOOD and THE FIRE, and the earth before the Flood (which was from Adam to Noach), the earth after the Flood in which we are living today (which was from Noach to the future Fire at the end of the Millennium), and the earth yet to come (which is after the Millennium at the beginning of the New Earth in Revelation 21). So, 2 Peter 3:5-6 is NOT about some "pre-Adamic flood" but about NOACH'S Flood!

We've looked at the 104th Psalm and noted how it is describing the results of Noach's Flood; so, these verses, too, should be removed.

So, what's left in your list? A few odds and ends of Scripture, taken out of their contexts, to attempt to rectify what you believe about the origins of haSatan (Hebrew for "the Enemy") and some fiction about a world existing before Genesis 1:2!

Now, I know that it's nothing definitive, nor is it Scriptural, but I'll add that there is this in legend:

Quote

There are writings of a Moroccan Berber Muslim scholar and traveller by the name of Ibn Battuta (actually “Abu Abdullah Muhammad Ibn Abdullah Al Lawati Al Tanji Ibn Battuta”) in the 1300s that claim that the pyramids were created PRIOR to the Flood. In fact, the Egyptian people used to call the Great Pyramid of Giza, “Enoch’s Pillar.” He said that Enoch (Chanokh), the seventh from Adam, heard prophecy from Adam about two judgments that were to come, one of water and one of fire. They built two such pillars, one of stone and one of brick, in which to house the wisdom and knowledge of the ancestors. If the one out of brick did not survive, the ancestors anticipated that the one out of stone would survive the Flood.

I'll specifically address your list next....

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2 hours ago, HAZARD said:

Explain these Scriptural differences!

There were two great floods on the Earth. The first where God destroyed His original creation because of Lucifers rebellion, and the second, Noah's flood because of mans rebellion.

Lucifers flood, everything was destroyed, all life, no light, the earth made empty and void.

Noah's flood, all life was not destroyed. Noah, his wife, his sons and their wives were left alive, plus all animals and the sun and moon was not prevented from giving light.

Here are all the Scriptures proving this occurred, read them for yourself then believe them or not??

Noahs flood which I will post as . 'N.F.' Lucifers flood, L.F.

L.F. Earth made waste (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Earth not made waste (Gen. 8:11-12, 22 ; Heb. 11:7 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. Earth made empty (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23).
N.F. Earth not made empty (Gen. 6:18-22 ; 8:16).

L.F. Earth made totally dark (Gen. 1:2-5 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Not made totally dark (Gen. 8:6-22)

L.F. No light from heaven (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Light from heaven (Gen. 8:6-22).

L.F. No day and night (Gen. 1:2-5).
N.F. Day and night (Gen. 8:1-22).

L.F. All vegetation destroyed Gen. 1:2 ; 2:5-6 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Vegetation not destroyed (Gen. 8:11, 21 ; 9:3, 20).

L.F. No continued abating of the waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Continued abating of the waters from the earth by evaporation (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. Waters taken off the earth in one day (Gen. 1:10).
N.F. Months of waters abating off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. God supernaturally takes waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Natural work of evaporation of the waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. No rebuke or miraculous work in fled away (Gen. 1:6-12 ; Ps. 104:7).
N.F. No rebuke or miraculous work is taking waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. The waters on earth in Gen. 1:2, hasted away when rebuked (Gen. 1:6-2 ; Ps. 104:9).
N.F. The bounds already eternally set for waters in Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. All fish were totally destroyed in flood of Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. No fish were destroyed of created again after Noah's flood (Gen. 1:20-23 ; 6:18-22).

L.F. No Fowls left on the earth after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Fowls were left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:7-17).

L.F. No animals left after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Some of all animals kept alive (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:17 ; 9:2-4, 10-16).

L.F. No man left on earth in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Eight men and women left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:18 ; 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No social system left at all in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. A social system left after Noah's flood (Gen. 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No ark made to save men in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. An ark made to save men and animals alive (Gen. 6:8-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16 ; Heb. 11:7).

L.F. Cause: fall of Lucifer, now Satan (Isa. 14:12-14; Jer. 4:23-26; Ezek. 28:11-17 ; Luke 10:18).
N.F. Cause: wickedness of men (Gen. 6:5-13) ; and fallen angels (Gen. 6:1-4; Jude 6-7 ; 2 Pet. 2:4).

L.F. Result: became necessary to make new life on earth (Gen. 1:3-2 : 25 ; Isa. 45:18 ; Eph. 3:11).
N.F. Results: no new creation made, for all men and animals were not destroyed (Gen. 6:18-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16).

The original creations of God include the heavens and the Earth and all things therein as first brought into being. This period is summed up in Gen. 1:1. thus: "In the beginning God created the heaven [Hebrew, heavens] and the earth." This refers to the dateless past, and takes in only a part of the creative ages, that is, from the beginning of creation until the chaotic period of Gen. 1:2 when the Earth and its first inhabitants were destroyed by the first flood. Notice during Noahs flood not all inhabitants , vegetation, animals, day, night were destroyed.

There are many other passages in Scripture that refer to that period (Job. 38; Ps. 8:3-8; 19:1-6; Prov. 8:22-31; John 1:3,10; Acts 17:24-26; Col. 1:15-18; Heb. 1:1-12; 11:3; Rev. 4:11).

I'll post more tomorrow, I have to leave.

Shalom, HAZARD.

Okay, as promised, let's look at your list and make some corrections. I'm going to remove the N.F. entries, because we basically agree about Noach's Flood:

L.F. Earth made waste (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
No, actually the earth WAS a waste before it had been formed.

When we mine bauxite from the ground, it's a perfectly natural mineral as found; however, it is not, in its natural state, useful. When we MELT it down to a liquid and remove the impurities, we form a NEW material, the metal called "aluminum." God created a perfect planet, but it was not yet formed into the useful things needed to support life!

L.F. Earth made empty (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23).
No, actually the earth WAS ALREADY empty because none of the living things we see were yet made as we see them today.

L.F. Earth made totally dark (Gen. 1:2-5 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
No. (You keep using the word "made.") Actually, the earth was first created in darkness. THEN, God created the light!

L.F. No light from heaven (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
Right! However, that's because "heaven" (the "sky") hadn't been created, yet!

L.F. No day and night (Gen. 1:2-5).
Right again! Again, that's because the light hadn't been created, yet!

L.F. All vegetation destroyed Gen. 1:2 ; 2:5-6 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
No, no vegetation had been created, yet! There was nothing yet to destroy!

L.F. No continued abating of the waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
That's because the waters came FIRST! THEN, the land was raised out of the waters below the sky!

L.F. Waters taken off the earth in one day (Gen. 1:10).
Correct. However, the earth - the land - hadn't yet appeared! 

L.F. God supernaturally takes waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
Yes, but that was also true for the Flood of Noach's day. EVERYTHING that God does is "supernatural!"

L.F. No rebuke or miraculous work in fled away (Gen. 1:6-12 ; Ps. 104:7).
Again, Psalm 104:7 is about Noach's Flood, but no "rebuke" was necessary during the original Creation! All was pronounced "very good!"

L.F. The waters on earth in Gen. 1:2, hasted away when rebuked (Gen. 1:6-2 [12?] ; Ps. 104:9).
No, God didn't have to "rebuke" anything, not even the waters, when He was creating. (Psalm 104 is about Noach's Flood!)

L.F. All fish were totally destroyed in flood of Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
No, none of the fish had ever existed before Day 5! (Jeremiah 4 is about the Captivity of Y'hudah!)

L.F. No Fowls left on the earth after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
No, none of the birds had ever existed before Day 5! (Jeremiah 4 is about the Captivity of Y'hudah!)

L.F. No animals left after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
No, none of the land animals had ever existed before Day 6! (Jeremiah 4 is about the Captivity of Y'hudah, and 2 Peter 3:5-6 is about Noach's Flood!)

L.F. No man left on earth in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
No, none of the human beings had ever existed before Day 6! (Jeremiah 4 is about the Captivity of Y'hudah, and 2 Peter 3:5-6 is about Noach's Flood!)

L.F. No social system left at all in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
No, since none of the human beings had ever existed before Day 6, obviously none of their social systems could have existed before Day 6! (Jeremiah 4 is about the Captivity of Y'hudah, and 2 Peter 3:5-6 is about Noach's Flood!)

L.F. No ark made to save men in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
Of course not! There were no "men" to save before Day 6! (See above.)

(I'm going to switch the last two.)

L.F. Result: became necessary to make new life on earth (Gen. 1:3-2 : 25 ; Isa. 45:18 ; Eph. 3:11).
No. No such result occurred because it was NOT necessary. God was making new life on earth FOR THE FIRST TIME!

L.F. Cause: fall of Lucifer, now Satan (Isa. 14:12-14; Jer. 4:23-26; Ezek. 28:11-17 ; Luke 10:18).
Ah! Now, THERE'S the rub! THIS is what this nonsense is all about; you're stretching for an explanation of how and when haSatan came to be. (Jeremiah 4 is about the Captivity of Y'hudah, and Luke 10:18 is about "haSatan falling from the sky like lightning" when the 70 apostles returned saying, "Even the demons are subject to us!")

Let's look at Isaiah 14:12-14 IN CONTEXT:

Isaiah 14:1-32
1 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.
2 And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.
3 And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,
4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!
5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.
6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.
7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
12 How art thou fallen from heaven (Hebrew: mishaamayim = from-[the]-skies), O Lucifer (Hebrew: Heeyleel = the "morning-star," Venus), son of the morning (Hebrew: ben-shaachar = "son-of-dawn")! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven (Hebrew: hashaamayim e`eleh = I-will-rise [to] the-skies), I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation (Hebrew: b-har mow'eed = "in-[the]-mountain of-[the]-feast/festival"), in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High (Hebrew: l-`Elyown = "to-[the]-Almighty").
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell (Hebrew: el sh'owl = "to [the]-grave"), to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man (Hebrew: haa'iysh = "the-male/man") that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
19 But thou art cast out of thy grave (Hebrew: miqiVrkhaa = from-thy-sepulchre) like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
22 For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.
23 I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the Lord of hosts.
24 The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:
25 That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.
26 This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.
27 For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?
28 In the year that king Ahaz died was this burden.
29 Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.
30 And the firstborn of the poor shall feed, and the needy shall lie down in safety: and I will kill thy root with famine, and he shall slay thy remnant.
31 Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times.
32 What shall one then answer the messengers of the nation? That the LORD hath founded Zion, and the poor of his people shall trust in it.
KJV

And, let's also look at Ezekiel's prophecy:

Ezekiel 28:1-26
1 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man (Hebrew: aadaam = "a-red-[man]"), and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:
4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:
5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:
6 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;
7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.
8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.
10 Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.
11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub (Hebrew: kruwV = a-winged-ox) that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
20 Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
21 Son of man, set thy face against Zidon, and prophesy against it,
22 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Zidon; and I will be glorified in the midst of thee: and they shall know that I am the LORD, when I shall have executed judgments in her, and shall be sanctified in her.
23 For I will send into her pestilence, and blood into her streets; and the wounded shall be judged in the midst of her by the sword upon her on every side; and they shall know that I am the LORD.
24 And there shall be no more a pricking brier unto the house of Israel, nor any grieving thorn of all that are round about them, that despised them; and they shall know that I am the Lord GOD.
25 Thus saith the Lord GOD; When I shall have gathered the house of Israel from the people among whom they are scattered, and shall be sanctified in them in the sight of the heathen, then shall they dwell in their land that I have given to my servant Jacob.
26 And they shall dwell safely therein, and shall build houses, and plant vineyards; yea, they shall dwell with confidence, when I have executed judgments upon all those that despise them round about them; and they shall know that I am the LORD their God.
KJV

So, Yesha`yahu (Isaiah) was talking about the king of Bavel (Babylon), and Yechezk'el (Ezekiel) was talking about the king of Tsor (Tyre).

Regarding haSatan, remember what is written in Revelation:

Revelation 12:7-10
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon (huge dragon) was cast out, that old serpent (original snake), called "the Devil" ("the Slanderer"), and "Satan" ("the Enemy"), which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
KJV

Revelation 20:1-3
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent (original snake), which is the Devil (the Slanderer), and Satan (Enemy), and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
KJV

That's who he is.

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After the original creation of the heavens and the Earth and all things therein, the Kingdom of God was universal, and God was all-in-all without one creature lifting up a finger of rebellion against Him. Everyone was willingly subject to His sovereign will and was walking in perfect obedience to God and His moral law. Each ruler and each one of his subjects of every kingdom in the universe was faithful in his personal responsibility and consecrated to the highest good of being and of the universe. No free moral agent acted from his own will in selfishness or apart from the will of the creator, and everything was in harmony and perfection.

How long this condition remained is not known, and all speculation is valueless.

A rebellion was started by the angelic ruler of the Earth who conceived the idea and boldly attempted to carry out his plan to dethrone God and become the supreme ruler of the universe. From here on, the Bible reveals that the Earth was made perfect and inhabited two times; that there have been two universal rebellions on the Earth; and that the Earth had two sinful careers. It records two past curses on the Earth and reveals that the Earth will be made new one more time; that righteousness  will dwell on Earth forever; and that God will become all-in-all again, as He was before rebellion was started by Lucifer and Adam (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 21-22; 2 Pet. 3:13; Isa. 65:17; 66:22-24).

Earths First Sinful Career (Gen. 1:2; Isa. 14:1-14; Jer. 4:23-26; Ezek. 28:11-17; 2 Pet. 3:5-6)

Moses' Teaching on the overthrow of the Pre-Adamite World

In Gen. 1:1 we have the fact that the Earth was in existence before the spirit of God began to move (brood) upon the face of the waters which covered the Earth.

The conjunction "and" is used to connect about 200 separate acts of God in Gen. 1 and 2.  These acts are all equally independent and important. Verse 2 is as independent of verse 1 as are all other separate acts of God in these two chapters. In verse 1 we have the original creation of the heavens and the Earth, and in verse 2, we have the original perfect Earth made chaos and flooded with water which destroyed all life on the Earth.

The word "was" in verse 2 is from the Hebrew hayah, which is a verb to become, not the verb to be. It is translated 67 times (Gen. 2:7; 19:26; 20:12; 24:67; Ex. 4:3-4; Num. 12:10; etc); becamest (1 Chron. 17:22; Ezek. 16:8); came and come to pass 505 times (Gen. 4:3; 6:1-, 4; 11:2, 5; etc.); come and come to pass 131 times (Gen. 4:14; 6:13; 18-20; 27:40; etc.); and many times be in the sense of become (Gen. 1:3, 6, 9, 14; 3:5; etc.).

The phrase without form is from the Hebrew tohu, which means waste, desolation. or confusion. It is translated waste (Deut. 32:10); without form (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23); vain (Isa. 45:18; 1 Sam. 12:21); confusion (Isa. 24:10; 34:11; 41:29); empty (Job. 26:7); vanity (Isa. 40:17, 23; 44:9; 59:4); nothing (Job. 6:18; Isa. 40:17); and wilderness (Job. 12:24; Ps. 107:40).

It can be seen from these passages what the word really means and what the condition of the Earth was in Gen. 1:2. God did not originally create the Earth in such a waste and ruined state. It is definitely stated in Isa. 45:18 that God did not create the Earth tohu (vain or desolate), yet in Gen. 1:2 the Earth was tohu. If the Earth was not originally created desolate, then it must have bee created inhabited, and later became desolate. Even the English verb was proves that it had to become desolate before it could be desolate.

The Hebrew word for void is bohu, which means empty, ruin or void. Its is translated void (Gen. 1;2; Jer. 4:23) and emptiness (Isa. 34:11). The Hebrew phrase tohu va bohu (waste and ruin, or desolate and empty) describes the chaotic condition since "the beginning" and before the six days of the reconstruction of Gen. 1:3-2:25. God did not create the Earth a ruin or a waste. It became so because of sin.

We can read Gen. 1;1 literally thus: "In the beginning[by periods, ages] God created the heavens and the earth. And the earth became wast and ruin [desolate and empty]; and darkness was upon the face of the deep [the flood]. And the Spirit of God moved [brooded] upon the face of the waters." In these verses we have the whole span of the creative ages taking in all the original creation of the heavens and the Earth and all things therin to the six days of restoration of the Earth to a habitable state. The original creations include the sun, moon, and stars.

In these verses alone we have the fact that in the dateless past God created the heavens, including the sun, moon and stars, and the Earth; that the heavens were created before the Spirit began to brood over the waters; and that these things were already in existence before the first of six the six days, proving that they were not created in any one of those days.

How long the Earth was a waste and a ruin or desolate and empty since its original habitation is not known. How long it was in existence and inhabited before it became desolate and empty is not known, but why and when it was cursed and became desolate is known and clearly revealed in Scripture.

In Scripture all cases of obscuring the sun and bringing consequent darkness, and all cases of floods are a result of judgment and never of an act of creation, unless it be Gen. 1:2; and we have no authority on which to believe that this is an exception.

Why could not Gen. 1:2 be the result of a curse, as is clear of all other floods and darkness on the Earth as revealed in Gen. 6:8; Ex. 10:21-23; Isa. 5:30; 13:10; Jer. 4:23-26; Amos 5:18-20; Zeph. 1:15; Joel 2:30-3:16; Matt. 8:12; 9:2; 16:10).

The fact that Moses by inspiration said that God told Adam to multiply and replenish the Earth proves that there was a social system on the Earth before Adam, for he could not replenish something that had not been plenished before. Some argue that the Hebrew word for replenish means fill and not refill, but this proves nothing.

An examination of all places where the word replenish is used disproves this. Suppose we make the word replenish mean plenish in Gen. 9:1; Isa. 2:6; 23:2; Jer. 31:25; Ezek. 26:2; 27:25, and note the results.

Where the Hebrew mala is translated fill, it does not mean that the thing referred to had ever been filled before. For example, when Joseph commanded his brethren to "fill their sacks,"  does this mean that those sacks had never been filled before? They had no doubt been filled many times.

See Gen. 42:25; 44:1; 1 Kings 18:33; Hag. 2:7; etc. To say "Fill that glass with water,"  does not prove it had never been filled before, but to say "Refill that glass with water," proves that it had been filled before. When God said to Noah, "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the Earth" (Gen. 9:1), it is clear that the Earth had been plenished before, so why not believe that God meant the same thing when He said it to Adam?

The same Hebrew  statement is found in both passages (Gen. 1:28; 9:1), and it is translated exactly the same in English, so would it be wrong to believe that it means the same thing?

If the Earth had been plenish before Adam, then it was overthrown by judgment before the six days, as shown in Gen. 1:2.

 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

After the original creation of the heavens and the Earth and all things therein, the Kingdom of God was universal, and God was all-in-all without one creature lifting up a finger of rebellion against Him. Everyone was willingly subject to His sovereign will and was walking in perfect obedience to God and His moral law. Each ruler and each one of his subjects of every kingdom in the universe was faithful in his personal responsibility and consecrated to the highest good of being and of the universe. No free moral agent acted from his own will in selfishness or apart from the will of the creator, and everything was in harmony and perfection.

Shalom, HAZARD.

All of the above is stamped "FICTION." There's no proof of any of this; so, it's just another science fiction/fantasy story. It's all a STORY you've been fed!

27 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

How long this condition remained is not known, and all speculation is valueless.

Precisely! So why are you speculating about this FICTIONAL earth condition?!

27 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

A rebellion was started by the angelic ruler of the Earth who conceived the idea and boldly attempted to carry out his plan to dethrone God and become the supreme ruler of the universe. From here on, the Bible reveals that the Earth was made perfect and inhabited two times; that there have been two universal rebellions on the Earth; and that the Earth had two sinful careers. It records two past curses on the Earth and reveals that the Earth will be made new one more time; that righteousness  will dwell on Earth forever; and that God will become all-in-all again, as He was before rebellion was started by Lucifer and Adam (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 21-22; 2 Pet. 3:13; Isa. 65:17; 66:22-24).

Sorry, bro', but 1 Corinthians 15 is the RESURRECTION chapter and NONE of it has to do with some fictitious earth before Genesis 1:2. You need to quit looking BEHIND and look FORWARD to the Millennium and the Eternal State to follow! Revelation 21-22 and 2 Peter 3:13 are both about the ETERNAL STATE in the future! And, Yesha`yahu (Isaiah) is PROJECTING to the Eternal State from a view of the Millennium in prophecy. Therefore, NONE of these passages support your fiction; so, all you're doing here is continuing the FICTION - the story.

27 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Earths First Sinful Career (Gen. 1:2; Isa. 14:1-14; Jer. 4:23-26; Ezek. 28:11-17; 2 Pet. 3:5-6)

Moses' Teaching on the overthrow of the Pre-Adamite World

In Gen. 1:1 we have the fact that the Earth was in existence before the spirit of God began to move (brood) upon the face of the waters which covered the Earth.

No. The Torah is NOT saying that there was some earth "in existence before the Spirit of God began to move (brood) upon the face of the waters." Genesis 1:1 was fore-shadowing the rest of the chapter and chapter 2! THEY ARE THE SAME WORDS, hashaamayim and haa'aarets, as those which follow in Genesis 1:8 and 1:10, respectively, WHEN GOD NAMED THEM FOR THE FIRST TIME!! You don't know what you're talking about! The earth (added from verse 1 for some frame of reference) was "WITHOUT FORM!" "TOHUW!" "SHAPELESS!" It hadn't been CREATED, yet! And "VOID!" "BOHUW!" "EMPTY!" God hadn't CREATED LIFE, yet! Why is this so hard for you to understand and accept?!

27 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

The conjunction "and" is used to connect about 200 separate acts of God in Gen. 1 and 2.  These acts are all equally independent and important. Verse 2 is as independent of verse 1 as are all other separate acts of God in these two chapters. In verse 1 we have the original creation of the heavens and the Earth, and in verse 2, we have the original perfect Earth made chaos and flooded with water which destroyed all life on the Earth.

The vav- is a CONNECTIVE. It doesn't work exactly as our conjuction, "and," although it is frequently so translated. However, sometimes, it is translated as "but" or "also." Sometimes, it connects like thoughts; sometimes it connects unlike thoughts. It's purpose is to unite the sentences of the account together as one message. It's also used to connect multiple nouns to the subject or multiple verbs to the predicate or multiple adjectives to a noun, etc. You can't just assume that verse 2 is not a subset of verse 1 simply because it begins with the connective! That MAY be how English works (more or less), but not Hebrew!

27 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

The word "was" in verse 2 is from the Hebrew hayah, which is a verb to become, not the verb to be. It is translated 67 times (Gen. 2:7; 19:26; 20:12; 24:67; Ex. 4:3-4; Num. 12:10; etc); becamest (1 Chron. 17:22; Ezek. 16:8); came and come to pass 505 times (Gen. 4:3; 6:1-, 4; 11:2, 5; etc.); come and come to pass 131 times (Gen. 4:14; 6:13; 18-20; 27:40; etc.); and many times be in the sense of become (Gen. 1:3, 6, 9, 14; 3:5; etc.).

Sorry, but that's FICTION! You've INVENTED information about "hayah" that doesn't exist! You're beginning to sound like Robert Young in his Young's Literal Translation of the Bible! Here's your own Strong's Dictionary of the Hebrew and Chaldee Languages on "haayaah":

OT:1961 haayaah (haw-yaw); a primitive root [compare OT:1933]; to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary):
KJV - beacon,  altogether, be (-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall,  follow, happen,  have, last, pertain, quit (oneself-), require,  use.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

You're adding something to the text that IS NOT THERE and IS NOT TRUE!

27 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

The phrase without form is from the Hebrew tohu, which means waste, desolation. or confusion. It is translated waste (Deut. 32:10); without form (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23); vain (Isa. 45:18; 1 Sam. 12:21); confusion (Isa. 24:10; 34:11; 41:29); empty (Job. 26:7); vanity (Isa. 40:17, 23; 44:9; 59:4); nothing (Job. 6:18; Isa. 40:17); and wilderness (Job. 12:24; Ps. 107:40).

It can be seen from these passages what the word really means and what the condition of the Earth was in Gen. 1:2. God did not originally create the Earth in such a waste and ruined state. It is definitely stated in Isa. 45:18 that God did not create the Earth tohu (vain or desolate), yet in Gen. 1:2 the Earth was tohu. If the Earth was not originally created desolate, then it must have bee created inhabited, and later became desolate. Even the English verb was proves that it had to become desolate before it could be desolate.

What you're not understanding is that God took His time to create this earth! SIX DAYS! Each stage of His Creation processes were PERFECT ... as far as they would go! The matter that He created was PERFECT ... for matter! However, God took each of the creative acts that could only go so far and pushed them farther in the next stage of His Creation!

27 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

The Hebrew word for void is bohu, which means empty, ruin or void. Its is translated void (Gen. 1;2; Jer. 4:23) and emptiness (Isa. 34:11). The Hebrew phrase tohu va bohu (waste and ruin, or desolate and empty) describes the chaotic condition since "the beginning" and before the six days of the reconstruction of Gen. 1:3-2:25. God did not create the Earth a ruin or a waste. It became so because of sin.

Finally, He created plant life that would use the chemicals in the soil and the molecules in the air to continue living. Then, He created animal life in aquatic life and birds, and then animal life in land animals, and then human life, all of which could eat the plant life! Finally, He RESTED from all His works which He had created and made! "Reconstruction" is YOUR word.

Sin? Sorry, but Adam introduced sin and the curse into this earth, not haSatan.

Genesis 3:14-19
14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
KJV

Romans 5:12-18
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
KJV

27 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

We can read Gen. 1:1 literally thus: "In the beginning[by periods, ages] God created the heavens and the earth. And the earth became waste and ruin [desolate and empty]; and darkness was upon the face of the deep [the flood]. And the Spirit of God moved [brooded] upon the face of the waters." In these verses we have the whole span of the creative ages taking in all the original creation of the heavens and the Earth and all things therin to the six days of restoration of the Earth to a habitable state. The original creations include the sun, moon, and stars.

Again, "restoration" is YOUR word, not that of the Bible. How can you have an "original creation" BEFORE the original Creative acts of God?! You can ONLY find that within your imagination, NOT in the Scriptures! Again, this scenario is totally FICTION!

27 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

In these verses alone we have the fact that in the dateless past God created the heavens, including the sun, moon and stars, and the Earth; that the heavens were created before the Spirit began to brood over the waters; and that these things were already in existence before the first of six the six days, proving that they were not created in any one of those days.

How long the Earth was a waste and a ruin or desolate and empty since its original habitation is not known. How long it was in existence and inhabited before it became desolate and empty is not known, but why and when it was cursed and became desolate is known and clearly revealed in Scripture.

Irrelevant. All of this is just more FICTION. There's a REASON why these things are "not known"; it's because THEY NEVER HAPPENED! Furthermore, you need to understand that "spirit" (Hebrew: ruwach = "wind") means "wind."

OT:7307 ruwach (roo'-akh); from OT:7306; wind; by resemblance breath, i.e. a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively, life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension, a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions):
KJV - air, anger, blast, breath,  cool, courage, mind,  quarter,  side, spirit ([-ual]), tempest,  vain, ([whirl-]) wind (-y).

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

It was God's WIND that passed over the surface of the waters. Please understand that the earth was NOT in a "cursed stated" in Genesis 1:2! That's ALL IN YOUR HEAD!

27 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

In Scripture all cases of obscuring the sun and bringing consequent darkness, and all cases of floods are a result of judgment and never of an act of creation, unless it be Gen. 1:2; and we have no authority on which to believe that this is an exception.

Why could not Gen. 1:2 be the result of a curse, as is clear of all other floods and darkness on the Earth as revealed in Gen. 6:8; Ex. 10:21-23; Isa. 5:30; 13:10; Jer. 4:23-26; Amos 5:18-20; Zeph. 1:15; Joel 2:30-3:16; Matt. 8:12; 9:2; 16:10).

Because it was merely a state before God began working with it! You're always looking for some reason why it was "shapeless and void," and I'm telling you it's simply because God hadn't started working on it, yet!

27 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

The fact that Moses by inspiration said that God told Adam to multiply and replenish the Earth proves that there was a social system on the Earth before Adam, for he could not replenish something that had not been plenished before. Some argue that the Hebrew word for replenish means fill and not refill, but this proves nothing.

An examination of all places where the word replenish is used disproves this. Suppose we make the word replenish mean plenish in Gen. 9:1; Isa. 2:6; 23:2; Jer. 31:25; Ezek. 26:2; 27:25, and note the results.

Where the Hebrew mala is translated fill, it does not mean that the thing referred to had ever been filled before. For example, when Joseph commanded his brethren to "fill their sacks,"  does this mean that those sacks had never been filled before? They had no doubt been filled many times.

See Gen. 42:25; 44:1; 1 Kings 18:33; Hag. 2:7; etc. To say "Fill that glass with water,"  does not prove it had never been filled before, but to say "Refill that glass with water," proves that it had been filled before. When God said to Noah, "Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the Earth" (Gen. 9:1), it is clear that the Earth had been plenished before, so why not believe that God meant the same thing when He said it to Adam?

The same Hebrew  statement is found in both passages (Gen. 1:28; 9:1), and it is translated exactly the same in English, so would it be wrong to believe that it means the same thing?

If the Earth had been plenish before Adam, then it was overthrown by judgment before the six days, as shown in Gen. 1:2.

No. God did NOT tell Adam to "replenish" the earth. That's simply an unfortunate mistranslation of the word, uwmil'uw, the 2nd-person, plural form of maalee':

OT:4390 maalee' (maw-lay'); or maalaa' (Est 7:5) (maw-law'); a primitive root, to fill or (intransitively) be full of, in a wide application (literally and figuratively):
KJV - accomplish, confirm,  consecrate, be at an end, be expired, be fenced, fill, fulfil, (be, become,  draw, give in, go) full (-ly, -ly set, tale), [over-] flow, fulness, furnish, gather (selves, together), presume, replenish, satisfy, set, space, take a [hand-] full,  have wholly.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

It does NOT mean that the earth was full of people before Adam was created; it is simply God telling them, Adam, to have children and populate the earth FILLING IT FOR THE FIRST TIME!

You're grasping at straws, brother, and there's absolutely NO NEED to adopt such a position, which, btw, is TOTALLY FOREIGN to the interpretation of Christians and Jews down through the centuries.

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Quote

Retrobyter

"No. God did

NOT tell Adam to "replenish" the earth. That's simply an unfortunate mistranslation of the word, uwmil'uw, the 2nd-person, plural form of maalee':"

.

You say I'm clutching at straws, well at least my straws are not full of holes and leak all over the place.

According to your understanding of the Word of God, your saying God never told Noah to replenish the Earth either??? 

According to your understanding, God must have told Noah to have children and populate the earth FILLING IT FOR THE FIRST TIME! just like He told Adam???? Or is there a way you can spin the meaning of Noahs "replenish the Earth" to actually mean what God said?? :laugh:

Same word, "replenish" in both Scriptures.

(1).  Gen 1:28, And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

 

(2).  "Gen. 9:1, And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth.

So, in Gen. 1:28 replenish is a mistranslation of the word, uwmil'uw, the 2nd-person, plural form of maalee':" And in Gen. 9:1, its not?????

 

Seems to me your a Young Earth Creationist. :laugh:

The Bible says that God created the earth in the beginning; Young Earth Creationism says that God created the earth in the first day.

The Bible says that God created the sun and the moon in the beginning; Young Earth Creationism says that God created the sun and the moon in the fourth day.

The Bible says that God created the heavens and the earth in the beginning; Young Earth Creationism says that God created the heavens and the earth in six days.

Young Earth Creationism misunderstands the Genesis account of God’s creation when it misinterprets the very first verse of the Bible (Genesis 1:1) as being a summary statement of the six-day creation account, which is described in Genesis 1:3-31. This misunderstanding of the very first verse of the Bible has led Young Earth Creationism to believe that God created the earth on the first day without the sun, and that it wasn’t until the fourth day that God created the sun, the moon and the stars. This is not only biblically untrue but also scientifically nonsensical. It is impossible for a 24-hour day comprising of both light and darkness, day and night with morning and evening to occur, without both the earth and the sun existing together. This is elementary physics and common sense. The Bible is extremely logical and it does not contradict true science, after all God Himself is the greatest scientist. God does not want us to believe in something that is illogical and scientifically stupid.

Young Earth Creationism confuses the beginning of the heavens and the earth many millions of years ago, as stated in Genesis 1:1, with the beginning of the Adamic Age, approximately six-ten thousand years ago, as described in Genesis 1:3-31.

What was the state of the earth when God created it, along with the rest of the universe, in the beginning? Let us see what the Bible says.

Job 38:4-7 (NIV)
4 “Where were you when I laid the earths foundation? Tell me, if you understand. 5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? 6 On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone 7 while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?

Job Chapters 38 and 39 show God humbling Job, who thought that he had a great fount of knowledge. In the verses above, God challenges Job about his knowledge of the creation of the earth. God did this to make Job acknowledge God’s greatness and to show Job that he knew absolutely nothing about how and when God had created the earth.

Notice that all the angels sang and shouted for joy when God laid the foundations of the earth. ‘Morning stars’ here also refers to angels.

The verses above reveal two important truths:

  1. God created angels before He created the earth and the universe.
  1. When God created the earth in the beginning, He created it in such a beautiful and perfect condition that the angels responded with joyful singing and shouting.

However, shockingly, in the second verse of the Bible, Genesis 1:2, we read that the earth had changed from its beautiful and perfect state, when it was first created in the beginning, to a totally different ruined state. It had become formless, empty, in darkness and submerged under water.

Since God did not create the earth in a formless, empty, dark and flooded state in the beginning, then it must have become that way at a later date. This is exactly what happened to the earth, because an accurate translation of the Hebrew word hayah, in Genesis 1:2 above, is became as given in Strong’s H1961, and as also confirmed by the NIV in their footnote.

Young Earth Creationism argues that Genesis 1:2 is the description of a stage in the construction of the earth. It is a misunderstanding and misinterpretation of this verse to believe that God firstly had to create the earth in a formless, empty, dark state and totally submerged under water in order to proceed and complete the rest of His beautiful creation on earth.

The truth of the Bible is that Genesis 1:2 is the description of the earth resulting from God’s massive cataclysmic global judgement because of the sins of angels. It is not speaking about a stage in the construction of the earth, as mistakenly believed by Young Earth Creationists.

The Bible specifically confirms in Isaiah 45:18 below that the earth was not created in the chaotic state that we see in Genesis 1:2.

Isaiah 45:18
For thus says the LORD, Who created the heavens, Who is God, Who formed the earth and made it, Who has established it, Who did not create it in vain (meaning chaotic), Who formed it to be inhabited: ‘I am the LORD, and there is no other’.

God did not create the earth in the beginning (Genesis 1:1) in a chaotic, wasted, dark state submerged under water. The earth became like that because a massive cataclysmic change took place on earth between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2.

Let us believe what the Bible says that God did not create the earth in vain in an uninhabitable, chaotic state. As we have shown from Scripture, the earth was created in such a beautiful state that the angels sang and shouted for joy. Most certainly, the angels would not have sung and shouted for joy over the creation of a chaotic, wasted, flooded and dark earth.

You believe your theory, I will believe the Word of God as it is written.

 

 

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On 1/19/2017 at 2:27 PM, HAZARD said:

You say I'm clutching at straws, well at least my straws are not full of holes and leak all over the place.

According to your understanding of the Word of God, you're saying God never told Noah to replenish the Earth either??? 

According to your understanding, God must have told Noah to have children and populate the earth FILLING IT FOR THE FIRST TIME! just like He told Adam???? Or is there a way you can spin the meaning of Noah's "replenish the Earth" to actually mean what God said?? :laugh:

Same word, "replenish" in both Scriptures.

(1).  Gen 1:28, And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

 

(2).  "Gen. 9:1, And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. 

So, in Gen. 1:28 replenish is a mistranslation of the word, uwmil'uw, the 2nd-person, plural form of maalee':" And in Gen. 9:1, its not?????

Shalom, HAZARD.

I really don't CARE what the "same ENGLISH word" is! If the HEBREW word is not reflected correctly, then the English translation is ... incomplete, at best. See, you just went too far in your re-statement:

"According to [my] understanding, God must have told Noah to have children and populate the earth, FILLING IT, just like He told Adam!" That's it. That's all.

FOR ADAM, that would have been "for the first time in the FIRST Age."

FOR NOACH, that would have been "for the first time in the SECOND Age."

And, both of these "Ages" are as described for us by Kefa ("Cephas" or Peter):

2 Peter 3:1-18
1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
(The Uniformitarianism of the Theory of Evolution)

(FIRST AGE)
5 For this they (the scoffers above) willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God (by Yeshua` who was the WORD) ...
the heavens
(the FIRST skies) were of old (the skies existed long ago), and ...
the earth
(the FIRST land) standing out of the water and ... (Gen. 1:9-10, the waters below the firmament, those waters being called "Seas")
(the earth standing) in the water: ... (Gen. 1:6-8, within the waters above the firmament, the firmament being called "Heaven(s)," a plural word)
6 Whereby the world ... (Greek: kosmos = the world-system/society/culture) that then was,
being overflowed with water, ...
(Noach's Flood, Gen. 7:11-20)
perished:  (All, in whose nostrils was the breath of life, died. Gen. 7:21-23)
(THE FLOOD WAS THE END OF THE FIRST AGE.)

(SECOND AGE)
7 But the heavens (the SECOND skies) and
the earth
(the SECOND land),
which are now
(and we are STILL within this system), ...
by the same word
(STILL by Yeshua` the WORD) ...
are kept in store, reserved unto fire against ...
the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
 
(AKA, THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT FOLLOWING THE MILLENNIUM, Rev. 20:7-15)
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness (the Master is not dawdling as some people think of delay);
but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; ...
in the which (day of the Lord) the heavens (skies) shall pass away (or pass by) with a great noise, and ...
the elements shall melt (dissolve) with fervent heat, ...
the earth (land) also and the works that are therein ... (the deeds and accomplishments within that land) 
shall be burned up (consumed).

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, ...
what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation (lifestyle) and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God (same as the day of the Lord),
wherein the heavens (skies) being on fire shall be dissolved, and ...
the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

(THE FIRE WILL BE THE END OF THE SECOND AGE.)

(THIRD AGE)
13 Nevertheless we, according to his (the Lord's) promise, ...
look for new heavens
(the THIRD skies, 2 Cor. 12:1-4; Rev. 21:1) and ...
a new earth (THIRD land, Rev. 21:1), ...
wherein dwelleth righteousness.  (Rev. 21:2-6ff)
(NO END TO THE THIRD AGE.)

14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
15 And account (consider) that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation (rescue/deliverance); even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest (arrest/twist), as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour (Master and Rescuer) Jesus Christ (Yeshua` the Messiah). To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
KJV

On 1/19/2017 at 2:27 PM, HAZARD said:

Seems to me you're a Young Earth Creationist. :laugh:

Shalom, HAZARD.

And, what's wrong with that? After all, Mosheh (Moses) was a "Young Earth Creationist," because YHWH IS a "Young Earth CREATOR!" As a matter of fact, THESE words are YHWH'S words, recorded by Mosheh:

Exodus 20:8-11
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD (YHWH) thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD (YHWH) made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD (YHWH) blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
KJV

Exodus 31:13-18
13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD (YHWH) that doth sanctify you.
14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD (YHWH): whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD (YHWH) made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
KJV 
(the purple words are YHWH'S words DIRECTLY!)

Furthermore, Yeshua` (Jesus) Himself said,

Matthew 19:3-6
3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
4 And he answered and said unto them,
Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female (Gen. 1:27),
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? (Gen. 2:24)
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

KJV

Therefore, Yeshua` believed that "at the beginning" applied to the six days of Creation as written!

Quote

The Bible says that God created the earth in the beginning; Young Earth Creationism says that God created the earth in the first day.

You're right (somewhat); some Young Earth Creationists claim that God created the earth in the first day. HOWEVER, that's NOT what was written! "The earth" (Hebrew: haa'aarets) was created on the THIRD day! That's because "earth" is not the planet; it's the GROUND - the LAND - upon the surface of the planet!

Quote

The Bible says that God created the sun and the moon in the beginning; Young Earth Creationism says that God created the sun and the moon in the fourth day.

Well, some may believe that, but if they do, they're not adhering to the text. The Scriptures don't say "that God created the sun and the moon in the fourth day." The Scriptures say that "God made two great (bright) lights" on the fourth day! And, YOU would be VERY hard pressed to find ANYTHING in the Bible that says "God created the sun and the moon in the beginning!"

The Hebrew words for "sun" and "moon," "shemesh" (OT:8121) and "yaareeach" (OT:3394), respectively, are not to be found in Genesis 1 or 2. The first occurrence of "shemesh" is in Gen. 15:12, and the first occurrence of "yaareeach" is in Gen. 37:9.

What God created on Day 1 was electromagnetic energy, called "light" (Hebrew: owr). He then organized that light such that there was light from one direction leaving a shaded side of the earth. NOTHING said there was a sun or a moon, yet!

See, being into science so exclusively, blinds one to other possibilities. The first and ONLY mention of actual bodies that could RADIATE such light isn't until the words "he made the stars also," in the KJV. In Hebrew, it's merely the two word addition, "v'eet kokhaViym."

Quote

The Bible says that God created the heavens and the earth in the beginning; Young Earth Creationism says that God created the heavens and the earth in six days.

The Bible ALSO says that God created the heavens and the earth in six days! (See Exodus 20:11 and Exodus 31:17 above.)

Quote

Young Earth Creationism misunderstands the Genesis account of God’s creation when it misinterprets the very first verse of the Bible (Genesis 1:1) as being a summary statement of the six-day creation account, which is described in Genesis 1:3-31. This misunderstanding of the very first verse of the Bible has led Young Earth Creationism to believe that God created the earth on the first day without the sun, and that it wasn’t until the fourth day that God created the sun, the moon and the stars. This is not only biblically untrue but also scientifically nonsensical. It is impossible for a 24-hour day comprising of both light and darkness, day and night with morning and evening to occur, without both the earth and the sun existing together. This is elementary physics and common sense. The Bible is extremely logical and it does not contradict true science, after all God Himself is the greatest scientist. God does not want us to believe in something that is illogical and scientifically stupid.

As mentioned above, one has no problem if one understands that light (electromagnetic energy) can exist without the sun (a huge ball of hydrogen gas undergoing massive amounts of nuclear fusion chain reactions creating helium gas and energy)!

It's similar to "the chicken or the egg" dilemma. The question is raised, "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?" According to the Scriptures, this answer can be found: It was the chicken that came first.

"Which came first, the light or the 'source' of that light?" Again, according to the Scriptures, it was the LIGHT that came first! Why is that important? Well, wouldn't it be a waste of time for God to create a light source and wait 8.333 minutes for the light to get to earth? And, this creative nonsense would be worse to think that God created a star 4.5 light-years away (Sirius) and wait that 4.5 years for the light to get to earth! And, this nonsense would be compounded even worse for stars millions and billions of light-years away!

No, God created the lights already en route to earth BEFORE He created their "sources." The creation of their "sources" was merely "to keep the lights on" perpetually, so to speak. 

Quote

Young Earth Creationism confuses the beginning of the heavens and the earth many millions of years ago, as stated in Genesis 1:1, with the beginning of the Adamic Age, approximately six-ten thousand years ago, as described in Genesis 1:3-31.

IF they are one and the same, then there is NO "confusion!" You, on the other hand, without studying Hebrew and without studying Hebrew culture and literature, have CREATED your confusion by thinking that Genesis 1:1 states that the heavens and the earth were "created many millions of years ago!" stating this WITHOUT BIBLICAL PROOF! 

Quote

What was the state of the earth when God created it, along with the rest of the universe, in the beginning? Let us see what the Bible says.

Job 38:4-7 (NIV)
4 “Where were you when I laid the earths foundation? Tell me, if you understand. 5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? 6 On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone 7 while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?

Job Chapters 38 and 39 show God humbling Job, who thought that he had a great fount of knowledge. In the verses above, God challenges Job about his knowledge of the creation of the earth. God did this to make Job acknowledge God’s greatness and to show Job that he knew absolutely nothing about how and when God had created the earth.

Notice that all the angels sang and shouted for joy when God laid the foundations of the earth. ‘Morning stars’ here also refers to angels.

Sorry, but you've misread Job 38:4-7 by YANKING IT VIOLENTLY out of its context!

Job 38:4-11
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
KJV

This passage is NOT talking about Creation; it's talking about the FLOOD of Noach's day!

Quote

The verses above reveal two important truths:

  1. God created angels before He created the earth and the universe.

Not if this is talking about Noach's Flood! He had simply created His messengers BEFORE the Flood!

Quote
  1. When God created the earth in the beginning, He created it in such a beautiful and perfect condition that the angels responded with joyful singing and shouting.

Again, not if this is talking about Noach's Flood! He RE-MADE the earth after the Flood, and to THAT event the messengers responded.

Quote

However, shockingly, in the second verse of the Bible, Genesis 1:2, we read that the earth had changed from its beautiful and perfect state, when it was first created in the beginning, to a totally different ruined state. It had become formless, empty, in darkness and submerged under water.

No, it wasn't "ruined" nor "had it become formless, empty, in darkness and submerged under water." The earth simply hadn't been made, yet! It WAS formless and empty and in darkness. And, it wasn't until God brought the land up out of the waters that it was formed FOR THE FIRST TIME!

Quote

Since God did not create the earth in a formless, empty, dark and flooded state in the beginning, then it must have become that way at a later date. This is exactly what happened to the earth, because an accurate translation of the Hebrew word hayah, in Genesis 1:2 above, is became as given in Strong’s H1961, and as also confirmed by the NIV in their footnote.

We've been through all this! The word "haayaah" does NOT mean "became" here! It meant what it was translated to mean, "WAS!"

Quote

Young Earth Creationism argues that Genesis 1:2 is the description of a stage in the construction of the earth. It is a misunderstanding and misinterpretation of this verse to believe that God firstly had to create the earth in a formless, empty, dark state and totally submerged under water in order to proceed and complete the rest of His beautiful creation on earth.

It is merely your UNSUBSTANTIATED OPINION that God had created a "beautiful creation" in Genesis 1:1 prior to a "destruction" in 1:2! That is NOT what the Hebrew text says! You are LYING about what the Bible says because you're not taking the time to understand the Bible!

Quote

The truth of the Bible is that Genesis 1:2 is the description of the earth resulting from God’s massive cataclysmic global judgement because of the sins of angels.

And, THIS above is the lie! THIS is the FICTION!

Quote

It is not speaking about a stage in the construction of the earth, as mistakenly believed by Young Earth Creationists.

Says your unsubstantiated opinion, again!

Quote

The Bible specifically confirms in Isaiah 45:18 below that the earth was not created in the chaotic state that we see in Genesis 1:2.

Isaiah 45:18
For thus says the LORD, Who created the heavens, Who is God, Who formed the earth and made it, Who has established it, Who did not create it in vain (meaning chaotic), Who formed it to be inhabited: ‘I am the LORD, and there is no other’.

God did not create the earth in the beginning (Genesis 1:1) in a chaotic, wasted, dark state submerged under water. The earth became like that because a massive cataclysmic change took place on earth between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2.

Let us believe what the Bible says that God did not create the earth in vain in an uninhabitable, chaotic state. As we have shown from Scripture, the earth was created in such a beautiful state that the angels sang and shouted for joy. Most certainly, the angels would not have sung and shouted for joy over the creation of a chaotic, wasted, flooded and dark earth.

You believe your theory, I will believe the Word of God as it is written.

But your theory is NOT "believing the Word of God as it is written!" That's the WHOLE POINT!

(Sigh, again, one verse pulled out of its context.) Okay, let's look at the Hebrew of Isaiah 45:18, shall we?

First, the context:

Isaiah 45:1-25
1 Thus saith the LORD (YHWH) to his anointed (his messiah), to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;
2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD (YHWH), which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.
4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
5 I am the LORD (YHWH), and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD (YHWH), and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD (YHWH) do all these things.
8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD (YHWH) have created it.
9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd (piece of pottery) strive with the potsherds (other pieces of pottery) of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?
10 Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?
11 Thus saith the LORD (YHWH), the Holy One of Israel, and his (Israel's) Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
12 I have made the earth (Hebrew: erets = "land"), and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens (Hebrew: shaamayim = "skies," in dual number), and all their host have I commanded.
13 I have raised him (Cyrus) up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts (Hebrew: YHWH Tsvaa'owt = "YHWH of armies").
14 Thus saith the LORD (YHWH), The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, saying, Surely God is in thee; and there is none else, there is no God.
15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.
16 They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.
17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD (YHWH) with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
18 For thus saith the LORD (YHWH) that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD (YHWH); and there is none else.
19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD (YHWH) speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.
20 Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.
21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD (YHWH)? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
24 Surely, shall one say, in the LORD (YHWH) have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
25 In the LORD (YHWH) shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.
KJV

Now, here's the Hebrew of verse 18:

18 Kiy koh aamar YHWH Bowree’ hashaamayim huw’ haa-Elohiym yotseer haa’aarets v`osaah huw’ kownnaah lo’ tohuw braa’aah laasheVet ytsaaraah aniy YHWH v’eeyn `owd:

18 Kiy = 18 For
koh = like-this
aamar = says
YHWH = YHWH (God's Name),
Bowree’ = (who)-Created
hashaamayim = the-skies
huw’ = He
haa-Elohiym = the-God
yotseer = who-formed
haa’aarets = the-land
v`osaah = and-made-(it) 
huw’ = He
kownnaah = has-erected-(it)
lo’ = not
tohuw = to-lie-waste
braa’aah = He-created-(it)
laasheVet = to-be-inhabited
ytsaaraah = He-formed-(it);
aniy = I-(am)
YHWH = YHWH (God's Name)
v’eeyn = and-there-is-no-one
`owd: = else.

18 For like-this says YHWH (God's Name), (who)-Created the-skies, "He, the-God who-formed the-land and-made-(it),  He has-erected-(it) not to-lie-waste; He-created-(it) to-be-inhabited; He-formed-(it); I-(am) YHWH (God's Name) and-there-is-no-one else."

He has ERECTED the earth, made the earth to STAND UP, not to lie waste! It's not that He didn't "create" it that way! Don't put words in GOD'S mouth!

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On January 17, 2017 at 0:26 PM, Retrobyter said:

Instead, what we learn is that there was NO LAND before God started creating this earth's surface, beginning with light on Day 1

Retrobyter, 

Thanks for being jovial & affirming; it's very much appreciated!

If you notice what the verse actually says; (caps mine)  ".....and let the DRY land appear”; and it was so."

(Btw, there is very good Jewish Midrash based on the Bible claiming the earth is about 15 billion years old, mankind created 25 million years ago and Adam & Eve placed in the garden and filled with God's spirit 6000 years ago.)

 

Edited by Zach
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"Don't put words in

GOD'S mouth!"

. Stop making this personal. If you cannot resist making smart remarks which I wont repeat, I'll put you on ignore!

 

God created the heaven and the Earth in six days? Not likely. 

 

"IF," it took God six days to create this little Earth, in comparison to other far greater planets in size than the Earth, then how long did it take God to create the entire universe with its billions of stars, suns, and galaxies?

 

It took God six days to restore the Earth to a habitable state.

 

Scriptures show that originally, Long before Adam and Eve were created, God created the heaven and then the Earth and placed Lucifer as ruler of the society there.

 
God gave Lucifer control of the Earth kingdom (Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).
 

Lucifer obeyed God and ruled for an unknown time before "Iniquity was found in him. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee" (Ezek. 28:13-15).

Before Adam Lucifer was the ruler of the Earth.

God is taking about Lucifer in these Scriptures. He was a perfect created angelic arc angel; "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee" (Ezek. 28:13-15).

Lucifer wanted to control the universe and knock God off His throne. He over a long period of time convinced one third of God's angels to rebell with him and they rebelled against God and His universal rule, and invaded heaven to try and de-throne God Himself. (Ezek 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Naturally Lucifer was defeated, and his kingdom on the earth was totally destroyed by a flood and by the fierce anger of God (Gen. 1;2; Jer. 4:23-26; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-6), hence the severe geological contortions of the earth's crust, vast deposits of bones in various places world wide, fossiles thousands or millions of years old etc. The earth was turned upside down in this process, ever wondered why the moon is poc marked by countless craters, and yet we never see anything plowing into it these days causing such destruction. What about the other dead planets in our immediate solar system? The flood God caused to cover the earth remained for an unknown period of time, and then God, in six days restored the earth to a habitable state and made Adam and his creation to carry out the original plan of God concerning the Earth (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

Lucifer and his spirit rebels caused man to fall and by this regained dominion of the earth through Adams submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). Lucifer has been in control ever since and he will remain in control untill the second coming of Jesus Christ who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium. God will then finally make a New heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5).

This doctrin is simple for most men to understand, so they reject it. Especially the churches for some reason.

 

This doctrin is simple for most men to understand, so they reject it. Especially the churches for some reason. I have never heard a priest or pastor talk about these things, the devil does not want anyone to know this and so the eyes of many have been closed.

2 Peter 3:5-7 expresses this clearly in plain human language,

 5, "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing (emerging) out of the water and in the water:

 6, Whereby the world "THAT THEN WAS," being overflowed with water, PERISHED:

  7, But the heavens and the earth, "WHICH ARE NOW," by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
If "the world that then was" is the same as that between Adam and the flood of Noah, then God made "the heavens and the earth which are now", since the flood of Noah, but this the Bible does not teach. There is no statement in any Scripture that the heavens and the Earth which are now differ from what they were between the times of Adam and Noah. On the contrary, we have a clear record that in six days God made "the heavens and the earth which are now," and there is no record anywhere of a change being made in them by Noahs flood, so that they would have to be made over again after the flood. What kind of change could a flood make in the heavens and the Earth? No flood could change the heavens, for floods on Earth can never cover the heavens. If a change is to be made in the heavens, it must be by divine acts of power other than by floods. At Noahs time no changes were made even in the Earth, much less in the heavens. All that happened was that some men and animals on Earth were drowned. Earth, vegetation, etc., remained the same after the flood as before it.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 
God destroyed the earth in His anger. GOD CREATED THE EARTH AND THE HEAVEN IN GEN.1:1, THEN GOD DESTROYED THE EARTH AS SHOWN IN GENESIS 1:2..

 

Jeremiah 4:23-28, “I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.”

 

This was not Noah's flood as many teach. There were men, animals, birds, sun, moon stars which all remained during Noah's flood.

 

Could the Bible be any clearer that God in His anger made the earth without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep? The cities were inhabited by angels. Man had not been created yet. Argue as one may, these Scriptures plainly evidence why the earth was without form and void in Genesis 1:1.

In fact, Jeremiah 4:23 even repeats the exact phrase word-for-word. These Scriptures cannot be ignored if one is to be an honest Bible student.

 

Carefully notice that Lucifer dwelt upon the earth prior to his rebellion. Isaiah 14:13-14; 13, For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: V. 14,  will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.”  

 

Lucifer's sin was wanting EQUALITY with God. This is the same sin of feminists today, who want to be EQUAL with male authority in marriage, home, church and society. God has ordained masculine authority in the humanity. Women are equal in worth, intelligence and importance to God; but the man is to lead, not the woman.

 

When Lucifer sinned, he wasn't immediately punished by God. We know that Lucifer wasn't banned from Heaven because Satan appears before God in Job 1:6-7.

Satan will be judged, convicted and punished at The Great White Throne Of Judgment with the rest of the wicked (Revelation 20:11-15). Satan will be cast into the Lake of Fire (Gehenna - Hell) forever to burn and be tormented night and day without rest. 2nd Peter 2:4 also tells us that the angels bound in Hell are RESERVED unto judgment. So neither the Devil nor the demons have been punished yet for their wickedness.

Those who believe in a Young Earth vehemently reject the idea that there's a Gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2; but as you've just read, God destroyed the cities of the earth and made the land desolate. Light ceased to shine (the sun, moon and stars were blocked out by God). The mountains trembled and moved. The earth had been a fruitful wilderness where dinosaurs and prehistoric birds and mammals lived.

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TWO SINFUL CAREERS PRE- AND POST ADAMITES.

Starting in 2 Peter 3:5,

1. For this they willingly are ignorant, that by the word of God the heavens were created of old, (V. 5; Ps. 68:33; 93:2; 102:25; Mic. 5:2).

2. That the earth was established in and out of water (V. 5; Ps. 24:2;136:6).

3. That the world that then was refers to the pre-Adamite world of social system which was destroyed by a great universal flood before Adam (V. 6; Gen. 1:2; Ps. 104:5-9; Jer. 4:23-26; Isa. 14;12-14; Ez. 28:11-17).

4. That the heavens and the earth which are now were restored from chaos and judgment about 6,000 years ago in Adams day 9V. 7: Gen 1:3-2-25).

5. That the heavens and the earth entered their second sinful career through Adam and are now reserved for a second universal renovation by fire at the time of the great white throne judgment at the end of the Millennium (V. 7:10-12; 12:25-28; Rev. 20"7-15).

6.  That with God a thousand years is like a day and a day is like a thousand years. He inhabits eternity and is not subject to it to get His work done before death as is the case with us (V. 8-9; Isa. 57:15; Eph. 3:11).

The pre-Adamites (3:6),

1. Two social systems are mentioned here by Peter; one was before the one which is now, and the other, after the one that then was (V. 6-7).

2. The former social system perished by water and the present one will perish by fire (V. 6-7).

3. The former social system was created "In the beginning" and was destroyed by the flood of Gen. 1"1-2. The present social system was created in 6 days since the flood of gen. 1:2 (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

4. The flood of Noah did not destroy all social system on earth between Adam and Noah, for some were preserved in the Ark to continue that social system after the flood; but the social system that then was before the present social system utterly perished. Not one man, bird, or animal was left alive (V. 6; Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26).

5. No reference in Scripture can be found of a change in the heavens and the earth in Noahs day as in Adams day (Gen. 1:3-2:25). This proves that" the world that then was," had to be before Adam's day because the heavens and the earth "which are now," came into existence at that time and not at the time of Noah.

6. There was no man, bird, vegetation, or any other life left after the flood of V. 6; Gen. 1:2. They were made again in the six days (Gen. 2:4-9). That they had been here before Adam is clear from;

Jer. 4:23-26. 

23, I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
    24, I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
    25, I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
    26, I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

7. There have been and will be three social systems on earth.

(1) The Pre-Adamite world, the one, "that then was," before the present heavens and the earth (V. 6).

(2) The Adamite sinful social system, from Adam to the new heavens and the new earth (V. 7).

(3) The Adamite sinless social system in the new earth (V. 13: Rev. 21:1-22; 5; Isa. 66:22-24).

8. Peter taught two distinct ends of two sinful careers on earth.

(1) The world "that then was. The pre-Adamite social system had a sinful career or it would not have perished in the flood of V. 6; Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; Isa. 14:12-14; Ez. 28:11-17; Matt. 13:35.

(2) The present Adamite sinful social system making the present sinful career of the earth. It will come to an end during the Millennium (V. 7, 10-13; 1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 20:7-10).

9. If V 6 pictured Noahs flood it would be clear, for Peter always mentions Noah of eight persons if he refers to this flood (1 Pet. 3;20; 2 Pet. 2:5). Others also make it clear when they refer to Noahs flood (Isa. 54:9; Matt. 24:37-38; Luke 17:26-27; Heb. 11:7).

10. There is no doubt of a universal flood before Adam (V. 6; Gen. 1:2; Ps. 104:5-9). Since God never sends a flood unless judgment is necessary, there must have been a social system to be banished before Adam.

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6 hours ago, HAZARD said:

 

Stop making this personal. If you cannot resist making smart remarks which I wont repeat, I'll put you on ignore!

 

God created the heaven and the Earth in six days? Not likely. 

Shalom, HAZARD.

I will if YOU will! You don't make "smart remarks" (as you say I do, which was meant as a loving, LEGITIMATE WARNING, btw), you just belittle someone in other, "nicer" ways!

Exodus 20:11
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
KJV

Quote

 

"IF," it took God six days to create this little Earth, in comparison to other far greater planets in size than the Earth, then how long did it take God to create the entire universe with its billions of stars, suns, and galaxies?

All we are told is this:

Genesis 1:14-19
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
KJV

Psalm 19:1-6
1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.
3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.
4 Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,
5 Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.
6 His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.
KJV

I believe that God could just SPEAK these other planets, stars, nebulae, and galaxies into existence with a SINGLE WORD! It's similar to your squeezing whole millions and billions of years into that little gap you claim exists between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2! I believe that God CHOSE to TAKE HIS TIME with this earth's Creation and did it in six, 24-hour days, instead!

Quote

 

It took God six days to restore the Earth to a habitable state.

 

Scriptures show that originally, Long before Adam and Eve were created, God created the heaven and then the Earth and placed Lucifer as ruler of the society there.

 
God gave Lucifer control of the Earth kingdom (Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).
 

Lucifer obeyed God and ruled for an unknown time before "Iniquity was found in him. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee" (Ezek. 28:13-15).

Before Adam Lucifer was the ruler of the Earth.

God is taking about Lucifer in these Scriptures. He was a perfect created angelic arc angel; "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee" (Ezek. 28:13-15).

Lucifer wanted to control the universe and knock God off His throne. He over a long period of time convinced one third of God's angels to rebell with him and they rebelled against God and His universal rule, and invaded heaven to try and de-throne God Himself. (Ezek 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Naturally Lucifer was defeated, and his kingdom on the earth was totally destroyed by a flood and by the fierce anger of God (Gen. 1;2; Jer. 4:23-26; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-6), hence the severe geological contortions of the earth's crust, vast deposits of bones in various places world wide, fossiles thousands or millions of years old etc. The earth was turned upside down in this process, ever wondered why the moon is poc marked by countless craters, and yet we never see anything plowing into it these days causing such destruction. What about the other dead planets in our immediate solar system? The flood God caused to cover the earth remained for an unknown period of time, and then God, in six days restored the earth to a habitable state and made Adam and his creation to carry out the original plan of God concerning the Earth (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

Lucifer and his spirit rebels caused man to fall and by this regained dominion of the earth through Adams submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). Lucifer has been in control ever since and he will remain in control untill the second coming of Jesus Christ who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium. God will then finally make a New heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5).

 

This doctrine is simple for most men to understand, so they reject it. Especially the churches for some reason. I have never heard a priest or pastor talk about these things, the devil does not want anyone to know this and so the eyes of many have been closed.

2 Peter 3:5-7 expresses this clearly in plain human language,

 5, "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing (emerging) out of the water and in the water:

 6, Whereby the world "THAT THEN WAS," being overflowed with water, PERISHED:

  7, But the heavens and the earth, "WHICH ARE NOW," by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
If "the world that then was" is the same as that between Adam and the flood of Noah, then God made "the heavens and the earth which are now", since the flood of Noah, but this the Bible does not teach. There is no statement in any Scripture that the heavens and the Earth which are now differ from what they were between the times of Adam and Noah. On the contrary, we have a clear record that in six days God made "the heavens and the earth which are now," and there is no record anywhere of a change being made in them by Noahs flood, so that they would have to be made over again after the flood. What kind of change could a flood make in the heavens and the Earth? No flood could change the heavens, for floods on Earth can never cover the heavens. If a change is to be made in the heavens, it must be by divine acts of power other than by floods. At Noahs time no changes were made even in the Earth, much less in the heavens. All that happened was that some men and animals on Earth were drowned. Earth, vegetation, etc., remained the same after the flood as before it.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 
God destroyed the earth in His anger. GOD CREATED THE EARTH AND THE HEAVEN IN GEN.1:1, THEN GOD DESTROYED THE EARTH AS SHOWN IN GENESIS 1:2..

Revelation 12:7-13
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ (Messiah): for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast (thrown down) unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
KJV

Context! Context! NOTHING can be known except within its CONTEXT! The devil (the Slanderer) didn't come down until AFTER the Lord's Kingdom had come, in this vision!

Deuteronomy 4:25-40
25 When thou shalt beget children, and children's children, and ye shall have remained long in the land, and shall corrupt yourselves, and make a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, and shall do evil in the sight of the LORD thy God, to provoke him to anger:
26 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that ye shall soon utterly perish from off the land whereunto ye go over Jordan to possess it; ye shall not prolong your days upon it, but shall utterly be destroyed.
27 And the LORD shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the Lord shall lead you.
28 And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell.
29 But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul.
30 When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice;
31 (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.
32 For ask now of the days that are past, which were before thee, since the day that God created (Hebrew: bara') man upon the earth, and ask from the one side of heaven unto the other, whether there hath been any such thing as this great thing is, or hath been heard like it?
33 Did ever people hear the voice of God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as thou hast heard, and live?
34 Or hath God assayed to go and take him a nation from the midst of another nation, by temptations, by signs, and by wonders, and by war, and by a mighty hand, and by a stretched out arm, and by great terrors, according to all that the LORD your God did for you in Egypt before your eyes?
35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.
36 Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee his great fire; and thou heardest his words out of the midst of the fire.
37 And because he loved thy fathers, therefore he chose their seed after them, and brought thee out in his sight with his mighty power out of Egypt;
38 To drive out nations from before thee greater and mightier than thou art, to bring thee in, to give thee their land for an inheritance, as it is this day.
39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.
40 Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, for ever.
KJV

"Lucifer." See, this is the ... MESS ... that you get when you attempt to give "Lucifer" such credit! It's compounded when you have such definitions for "heaven" that are both unbiblical and untenable.

Ezekiel 28 is NOT TALKING ABOUT "Heeyleel!"

Ezekiel 28:1-19
1 The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre, 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says:

"'In the pride of your heart
you say, "I am a god;
I sit on the throne of a god
in the heart of the seas."
But you are a man and not a god,
though you think you are as wise as a god.
3 Are you wiser than Daniel? Is no secret hidden from you?
4 By your wisdom and understanding
you have gained wealth for yourself
and amassed gold and silver
in your treasuries.
5 By your great skill in trading
you have increased your wealth,
and because of your wealth
your heart has grown proud. 

6 "'Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says:
"'Because you think you are wise,
as wise as a god,
7 I am going to bring foreigners against you,
the most ruthless of nations;
they will draw their swords against your beauty and wisdom
and pierce your shining splendor.
8 They will bring you down to the pit,
and you will die a violent death
in the heart of the seas.
9 Will you then say, "I am a god,"
in the presence of those who kill you?
You will be but a man, not a god,
in the hands of those who slay you.
10 You will die the death of the uncircumcised
at the hands of foreigners.
I have spoken, declares the Sovereign LORD.'" 

11 The word of the LORD came to me: 12 "Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says:

"'You were the model of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
ruby, topaz and emerald,
chrysolite, onyx and jasper,
sapphire, turquoise and beryl.
Your settings and mountings were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.
14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.
16 Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, O guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.
17 Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings.
18 By your many sins and dishonest trade
you have desecrated your sanctuaries.
So I made a fire come out from you,
and it consumed you,
and I reduced you to ashes on the ground
in the sight of all who were watching.
19 All the nations who knew you
are appalled at you;
you have come to a horrible end
and will be no more.'" 
NIV

It's talking about the king of Tyre!

Isaiah 14 is not talking about a "Heeyleel," either!

Isaiah 14:1-27
1 The LORD will have compassion on Jacob;
once again he will choose Israel
and will settle them in their own land.
Aliens will join them
and unite with the house of Jacob.
2 Nations will take them
and bring them to their own place.
And the house of Israel will possess the nations
as menservants and maidservants in the LORD'S land.
They will make captives of their captors
and rule over their oppressors. 

3 On the day the LORD gives you relief from suffering and turmoil and cruel bondage, 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:

How the oppressor has come to an end!
How his fury has ended!
5 The LORD has broken the rod of the wicked,
the scepter of the rulers,
6 which in anger struck down peoples
with unceasing blows,
and in fury subdued nations
with relentless aggression.
7 All the lands are at rest and at peace;
they break into singing.
8 Even the pine trees and the cedars of Lebanon
exult over you and say,
"Now that you have been laid low,
no woodsman comes to cut us down." 

9 The grave below is all astir
to meet you at your coming;
it rouses the spirits of the departed to greet you —
all those who were leaders in the world;
it makes them rise from their thrones —
all those who were kings over the nations.
10 They will all respond,
they will say to you,
"You also have become weak, as we are;
you have become like us."
11 All your pomp has been brought down to the grave,
along with the noise of your harps;
maggots are spread out beneath you
and worms cover you. 

12 How you have fallen from heaven,
O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth,
you who once laid low the nations!
13 You said in your heart,
"I will ascend to heaven;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain.
14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High."
15 But you are brought down to the grave,
to the depths of the pit. 

16 Those who see you stare at you,
they ponder your fate:
"Is this the man who shook the earth
and made kingdoms tremble,
17 the man who made the world a desert,
who overthrew its cities
and would not let his captives go home?" 

18 All the kings of the nations lie in state,
each in his own tomb.
19 But you are cast out of your tomb
like a rejected branch;
you are covered with the slain,
with those pierced by the sword,
those who descend to the stones of the pit.
Like a corpse trampled underfoot,
20 you will not join them in burial,
for you have destroyed your land
and killed your people.

The offspring of the wicked
will never be mentioned again.
21 Prepare a place to slaughter his sons
for the sins of their forefathers;
they are not to rise to inherit the land
and cover the earth with their cities. 

22 "I will rise up against them,"
declares the LORD Almighty.
"I will cut off from Babylon her name and survivors,
her offspring and descendants," declares the LORD.
23 "I will turn her into a place for owls
and into swampland;
I will sweep her with the broom of destruction,
"declares the LORD Almighty. 

24 The LORD Almighty has sworn,

"Surely, as I have planned, so it will be,
and as I have purposed, so it will stand.
25 I will crush the Assyrian in my land;
on my mountains I will trample him down.
His yoke will be taken from my people,
and his burden removed from their shoulders." 

26 This is the plan determined for the whole world;
this is the hand stretched out over all nations.
27 For the LORD Almighty has purposed, and who can thwart him?
His hand is stretched out, and who can turn it back? 
NIV

This is ALL talking about the king of Babylon!

By making these passages talking about "haSatan" ("Lucifer"), you've created a problem: "What do I do with him? Where did he come from? When did he originate?"

 

Quote

Jeremiah 4:23-28, “I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.”

 

This was not Noah's flood as many teach. There were men, animals, birds, sun, moon stars which all remained during Noah's flood.

 

Could the Bible be any clearer that God in His anger made the earth without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep? The cities were inhabited by angels. Man had not been created yet. Argue as one may, these Scriptures plainly evidence why the earth was without form and void in Genesis 1:1.

In fact, Jeremiah 4:23 even repeats the exact phrase word-for-word. These Scriptures cannot be ignored if one is to be an honest Bible student.

 

Carefully notice that Lucifer dwelt upon the earth prior to his rebellion. Isaiah 14:13-14; 13, For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: V. 14,  will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.”  

 

Lucifer's sin was wanting EQUALITY with God. This is the same sin of feminists today, who want to be EQUAL with male authority in marriage, home, church and society. God has ordained masculine authority in the humanity. Women are equal in worth, intelligence and importance to God; but the man is to lead, not the woman.

 

When Lucifer sinned, he wasn't immediately punished by God. We know that Lucifer wasn't banned from Heaven because Satan appears before God in Job 1:6-7.

Satan will be judged, convicted and punished at The Great White Throne Of Judgment with the rest of the wicked (Revelation 20:11-15). Satan will be cast into the Lake of Fire (Gehenna - Hell) forever to burn and be tormented night and day without rest. 2nd Peter 2:4 also tells us that the angels bound in Hell are RESERVED unto judgment. So neither the Devil nor the demons have been punished yet for their wickedness.

Those who believe in a Young Earth vehemently reject the idea that there's a Gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2; but as you've just read, God destroyed the cities of the earth and made the land desolate. Light ceased to shine (the sun, moon and stars were blocked out by God). The mountains trembled and moved. The earth had been a fruitful wilderness where dinosaurs and prehistoric birds and mammals lived.

No. NO. NO! A THOUSAND TIMES "NO!" Jeremiah 4:23-28 is not talking about "between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2! It's talking about the Captivity of Y'hudah (Judah) when N'vukhadnetsar (Nebuchadnezzar) had God's people taken away to Babylon!

By misreading these passages of Scripture, you have INVENTED your own little "cosmos," that NEVER EXISTED!

Edited by Retrobyter
It was released before I was done.
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