just_abc Posted December 23, 2016 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 898 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 537 Days Won: 1 Joined: 12/06/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) - Thanks very much to Sing40King and Snow - for insight and suggestions. - 3 hours ago, Snow said: Hi Adara I am not from the USA and i really struggle with the concept of a Christian pledging allegiance to a flag I would struggle with pledging allegiance to any flag too.... I think many Christians outside the USA might struggle with this too .. especially as pledging allegiance to a flag might not be a common practice in many places.... Sorry Adara- did not mean to take this thread off topic if I did. Edited December 23, 2016 by just_abc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 21 hours ago, ravindran said: I see no harm in that. But the interesting question would, what should foreigners or non-citizens do in such cases? For example, I am from India. I am not us citizen. My kids are born in US. I have no problem them pledging allegiance to US in Church or anywhere. They are US citizens. How about me? I have never been in that situation before anyways. As a non-citizen you can simply stand or sit politely as we would do in your country of India in whatever method you choose to show patriotism. If I were at a public event and someone of another religion was slated to offer up a invocational prayer before the event, I would respectfully bow my head until they were done. I would not join them in prayer, but I would respect their right to pray in public. I would show them the respect that I want from them if a Christian prays in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 That flag represents the men and women who gave their lives for my right to go to church. I don't think showing patriotism and gratitude for their sacrifice is inappropriate in church. I don't think you need to do it every Sunday but around Veteran's Day and Independence Day, I think it is appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted December 23, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted December 23, 2016 On 12/21/2016 at 9:51 PM, Adara said: A lot of churches I've been to like to pledge allegiance to the U.S. flag in church, or kids AWANA/prayer classes. I'm all for respecting the flag, but I have a problem with Christians pledging allegiance to it in church. I feel like this just isn't needed and we should yield our allegiance to Christ instead. What are your thoughts? Maybe if it's done with Remembrance day but to do it every week would be to much and I don't think needed but it's good to be respectful of people who do want to pledge allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the Lamb With all my strength, with all I am I will seek to honor His commands I pledge allegiance to the Lamb I have heard how Christians long ago Were brought before a tyrant's throne They were told that he would spare their lives If they would renounce the name of Christ But one by one they chose to die The Son of God they would not deny Like a great angelic choir sings I can almost hear their voices ring I pledge allegiance to the Lamb With all my strength, with all I am I will seek to honor His commands I pledge allegiance to the Lamb Now the years have come, and the years have gone But the cause of Jesus still goes on Now our time has come to count the cost To reject this world, to embrace the cross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted December 23, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,088 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,833 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted December 23, 2016 Quote I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." One nation under God....... indivisible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricky Posted January 1, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 508 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 216 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/09/1985 Share Posted January 1, 2017 On 12/22/2016 at 8:07 PM, just_abc said: I wanted to ask a similar question lol .... I have never been to the USA but there are many people from outside the USA including some from my own country ..who live / work / study ..in the USA.... If non-american Christians attend a church where there is a pledge of allegiance etc.. what should they do?.. Should they stand quietly and wait? Should they sit down? Should they leave for a bit and come back later? um.. what should they do? Sorry just wondering. No offence intended to anyone. Thanks. I had to lead a service on Memorial Day, I did a did a section about Memorial Day, I read names of some people who lost their lives in the US armed forces and had a moment's, but as I am a non citizen I didn't lead the pledge, as I felt personally for me it was inappropriate to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricky Posted January 1, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 508 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 216 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/04/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/09/1985 Share Posted January 1, 2017 I do to stand and even put my hand over my heart when the Pledge s done, or the Anthem is sung, but I will not lead either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted January 1, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 951 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,565 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,045 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted January 1, 2017 (edited) On 12/21/2016 at 9:51 PM, Adara said: A lot of churches I've been to like to pledge allegiance to the U.S. flag in church, or kids AWANA/prayer classes. I'm all for respecting the flag, but I have a problem with Christians pledging allegiance to it in church. I feel like this just isn't needed and we should yield our allegiance to Christ instead. What are your thoughts? I have an objection to offer. If pledge means loyalty to the cause of a group, nation or symbol, of any kind I will have great difficulty making such a commitment. Plus I wonder about the intent of a public "pledge" as compared to being motivated in one's private prayer. I tend to think my yes should be my yes and my no be my no. I don't think I can pledge allegiance to that which changes with the winds of politics. For instance can I stand before God today put my hand over my heart and declare before God that my allegiance is to the USA the country that just undercut Israel at the United Nations? I would have to add a whole lot of disclaimers to my pledge. To pledge is a very serious commitment, one destined for failure to some extent. I don't think can even pledge to God my perfect loyalty. For I am frail at times. I fail often enough that I realize even a resolution pledge to never ever do "that " again, for example, is likely an empty pledge, one that I cannot fulfill. So, I do not personally pledge to any flag, none. Nor do I pledge to any- thing. I try instead to be humble in knowledge of my own frailties and shortcomings, keeping in mind the precept as I understand it in the word of God to me. “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven." ..."do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. Do not be like them,"...From Mathew 6 When someone says; "repeat after me", or even "Say Amen", I get pretty nervous with high alert. I never repeat after anyone! I want to know the entirety of a situation, pray in private about it, read the word of God, and then have time to think. I never want to surrender all that over the demand to pledge or repeat after anyone ever. Especially the repeating of what is to me a vain repetition for ceremony's sake so that others may see and have me join blindly in the same pledge. Edited January 1, 2017 by Neighbor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Posted January 1, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,675 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 2,124 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted January 1, 2017 43 minutes ago, Neighbor said: I have an objection to offer. If pledge means loyalty to the cause of a group, nation or symbol, of any kind I will have great difficulty making such a commitment. Plus I wonder about the intent of a public "pledge" as compared to being motivated in one's private prayer. I tend to think my yes should be my yes and my no be my no. I don't think I can pledge allegiance to that which changes with the winds of politics. For instance can I stand before God today put my hand over my heart and declare before God that my allegiance is to the USA the country that just undercut Israel at the United Nations? I would have to add a whole lot of disclaimers to my pledge. To pledge is a very serious commitment, one destined for failure to some extent. I don't think can even pledge to God my perfect loyalty. For I am frail at times. I fail often enough that I realize even a resolution pledge to never ever do "that " again, for example, is likely an empty pledge, one that I cannot fulfill. So, I do not personally pledge to any flag, none. Nor do I pledge to any- thing. I try instead to be humble in knowledge of my own frailties and shortcomings, keeping in mind the precept as I understand it in the word of God to me. “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven." ..."do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. Do not be like them,"...From Mathew 6 When someone says; "repeat after me", or even "Say Amen", I get pretty nervous with high alert. I never repeat after anyone! I want to know the entirety of a situation, pray in private about it, read the word of God, and then have time to think. I never want to surrender all that over the demand to pledge or repeat after anyone ever. Especially the repeating of what is to me a vain repetition for ceremony's sake so that others may see and have me join blindly in the same pledge. Hi Neighbor Also in the latter days, Christians shall be hated by 'ALL' nations..(Matt 24:9)..It doesn't say all nations except USA...Should a Christian pledge allegiance to a nation that we will be persecuted by?? God Bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted January 2, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 951 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,565 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,045 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted January 2, 2017 (edited) Fair question, or another reason not to I suppose. But in fairness, I have always been hesitant, and perhaps too terrorized, to recite oaths. I once had the surprise and extreme embarrassment at a Los Angeles convention meeting, with 2500 attendees in the room, to have the person speaking at the opening of the ceremonies point to our front and center table and call the person next to me by name and ask him to lead us all in pledge of allegiance to the flag. Now, my work friend, he was just a bit lubricated at that moment, couldn't remember it and said ", I'm sorry I'm Canadian, I don't know your pledge". I knew he wasn't Canadian, -and so did the speaker. She turned to me, and calling by name asked me- just as I was between choking off my shocked and nervous laughter, and being amazed at my friend's quick but feeble tale of Canadian citizenship. I'm Canadian,- ha. Then I realized gee at this very moment I don't even know the pledge. Come on brain come on, kick in. I said; I am American, ah and I don't know the pledge either. Fortunately at that point my counter part and work place GM stood up and did his best to remember the pledge. It was not our best night! Ah a oh so humbling memory. I have not relished public pledge situations ever since then. Actually, I had never memorized the pledge of allegiance in public school, short though it is. I had attended different public schools at different States, each teaching such things at different grade levels than each other. I had missed that little bit of rote memorization entirely in my travels. A little history on the "pledge" and it's modification for whatever it is worth is at http://www.ushistory.org/documents/pledge.htm Never know on the internet the accuracy of anything, but this is at least somewhat interesting. an excerpt from that account follows: "The original Bellamy salute, first described in 1892 by Francis Bellamy, who authored the original Pledge, began with a military salute, and after reciting the words "to the flag," the arm was extended toward the flag.' Kinda scary visual isn't it? Edited January 2, 2017 by Neighbor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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