simplejeff Posted January 2, 2017 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 2, 2017 3 hours ago, Snow said: a nation that we will be persecuted by?? "..will be ... " ? Like for over a century already ... now more every day.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted January 3, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 951 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,556 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,037 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted January 3, 2017 I open with an apology for the length of this post, it kinda grew as I was awakened to some concerns. I had expected to get severely chastised for my own personal thoughts and attitude regarding the pledge and pledges in general. I had expected to learn the reasons I am or may be wrong. Plus, I am curious as to the why of such pledges now that the subject has been raised. I see a progression of changes in the pledge of allegiance. I have looked at the dictionary meanings of the words, and am checking historical sequences, the chronology, of the changes hoping to find the motivations for changes. Why change a pledge? ??? As I look I see that President Eisenhower was moved by a pastor's presentation on flag day 1954, moved to two years later sign a resolution bill, a law, adding "under God" to the pledge. So that it is a pledging that is different in intent from other nations whose flag one might pledge allegiance. Making our USA flag pledge to one nation indivisible under God. He signed the bill while making these words his presentation as to the why of it: "From this day forward, the millions of our school children will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural school house, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty. To anyone who truly loves America, nothing could be more inspiring than to contemplate this rededication of our youth, on each school morning, to our country's true meaning. . . . In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource, in peace or in war." Source http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles.asp?id=105586 President Eisenhower was moved to his action by The sermon preached by the Rev. George M. Docherty, pastor of New York Avenue Presbyterian Church in Washington, D. C. --see the full sermon, with his notes and additions available as a download via the link above. "Under God", does the change the intent of the pledge?- a country under God or a pledge subordinate to a higher solemn pledge to God? We claim to be under God as a nation, what does that mean? Do other countries people also make claim to be under God, or might they just respond to a demand for loyalty to the leadership of the country? Our land has a song we like to sing too- God bless America- stand beside her Guide her-with the light from above- Why that's a hymn isn't it? A prayer hymn. Plus we have a national anthem, that most respectfully acknowledge or at least demure to, with grand exceptions of some celebrities and sports figures these days. What of these types of ceremonial rites of allegiance? I am appalled that a quarterback will not stand for the national anthem, yet I do not make pledges. Seems a little harmony and reconciliation of divergent thoughts within my own mind are in order. I appeal to others for their thoughts, resources, and just plain God moved emotions on the overall subject as part of reponses regarding the pledge if it will not hijack the intent of the opening post-. Thanks for reading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted January 3, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 951 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,556 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,037 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) ..."To anyone who truly loves America, nothing could be more inspiring than to contemplate this rededication of our youth, on each school morning, to our country's true meaning. . . . In this way we are reaffirming the transcendence of religious faith in America's heritage and future; in this way we shall constantly strengthen those spiritual weapons which forever will be our country's most powerful resource, in peace or in war." President Dwight D. Eisenhower I confess I never before have read nor heard his words of reasoning and encouragement for pledging. Now the question, for me at least, is does that affect my own reasoning, does it change it,or does it at least explain to me why it is of import to perhaps many if not most people perhaps better informed than I have been to date. Does such a pledge strengthen my spiritual weapons? Evidently it did to the spiritual weapons of one great leader. Least he and the House of Representatives and Senate of the USA thought so at a time we were in intense battle, "the cold war" with an adversary the Soviet Union a country that at it's very heart denies God. Edited January 3, 2017 by Neighbor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neighbor Posted January 3, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 951 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,556 Content Per Day: 5.03 Reputation: 9,037 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) Wow! How very pertinent to today is the sermon of Dr. George MacPherson Docherty pastor,( see http://www.wallbuilders.com/downloads/under-god-sermon.pdf ) that inspired or illuminated our President D.D. Eisenhower. I am surprised it is not being used today to move us to a higher vision of what we might be or should be as individuals and a people. PLEASE go to the website download and read these ten pages of double spaced typed notes and personal markings of the deliverer of the message. I think all that do will be very surprised as to the wide scope of reasons given for this change. I am printing myself a copy for study. It is I think going to bring to me hours of good time in my Bible and in to other documents of that sermon's time related to the changing of the pledge of allegiance. Edited January 3, 2017 by Neighbor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Von Posted February 22, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1,265 Topics Per Day: 0.44 Content Count: 2,637 Content Per Day: 0.93 Reputation: 760 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/04/1972 Share Posted February 22, 2017 On 12/22/2016 at 0:51 AM, Adara said: A lot of churches I've been to like to pledge allegiance to the U.S. flag in church, or kids AWANA/prayer classes. I'm all for respecting the flag, but I have a problem with Christians pledging allegiance to it in church. I feel like this just isn't needed and we should yield our allegiance to Christ instead. What are your thoughts? Dear sister Adara, Grace and mercy and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. I agree with you that we should be loyal to Jesus Christ alone. In fact, that's why I disagree with swearing allegiance to the flag of any country. As we know, the system governing this world is under the rule of Ha-Satan (Ephesians 2:1,2; 1John 5:19). We must submit ourselves exclusively to Christ, letting Him show us how we should proceed before the orders imposed by the authorities of this world. Just as there is no fellowship between light and darkness, there is no communion between God and Mammon, between God and Caesar: · “Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.” (2Corinhians 6.14-17). · “No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.” (Matthew 6.24). · “They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.” (Matthew 22.21). May Jesus help us to trust, to fear and to hear only His voice, and to let Him show us what to do with all the people, circumstances, and resources He brings to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) I don't have an issue with showing due honor and respect in church. But saying the Pledge of Allegiance in church, when Jesus says we are to seek His kingdom first, does not sit well with me. And it also is difficult for me to separate out what the flag represents when it's likely that flag was made in sweatshop conditions in a country where the freedoms we enjoy are non-existent. Is the dream of liberty and justice only for those who are US citizens, and has God only really blessed us in such a unique way? Is liberty and justice even what we see now? And if we're under God why has there been legislation that has undermined the things God stands for? I want to believe in the things the Pledge of Allegiance stands for. I am grateful to be an American and I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. But I believe for most people they've just become words that are recited and separated from their meaning. I can't separate the ideals of the pledge from the reality, and scripture takes seriously the swearing of oaths. That's what the Pledge of Allegiance is. Edited February 22, 2017 by CCole1983 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kwikphilly Posted February 22, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 96 Topic Count: 307 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 18,136 Content Per Day: 4.63 Reputation: 27,816 Days Won: 327 Joined: 08/03/2013 Status: Online Share Posted February 22, 2017 Blessings Adara I never went to a church service,in all my years ,that did the "pledge".....I was surprised to hear it but "inappropriate"? No,I don't believe so.....as a Christian myself,who's only allegience is to Almighty God I place my hand over my heart & recite the "pledge" as any other patriotic American does,what is MOST significant in my own heart & mind is that we are pledging as a people that we are ONE Nation UNDER God,clearly that states WHO is FIRST & ABOVE us,does it not? Quote That flag represents the men and women who gave their lives for my right to go to church. I don't think showing patriotism and gratitude for their sacrifice is inappropriate in church. I don't think you need to do it every Sunday but around Veteran's Day and Independence Day, I think it is appropriate. Shiloh As I mentioned,I have never seen this done at church but I think it would be pretty nice on VD & Independence Day as well,I agree with Shiloh.....I wouldn't mind it at all & for anyone who is not American then can stand politely without particpating to be respectful as I believe we would in their country With love-in Christ,Kwik BTW,I'm sure there will be folks that will want to debate that it no longer represents this & gov't does that etc...etc,,,,, But I (we) are Christians,so we are not looking to be "of the world",,,,,but we are IN it ,so pledging as we do "Under GOD" is with all siincerity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerbilwoman Posted February 22, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,332 Content Per Day: 0.68 Reputation: 685 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 22, 2017 On 12/21/2016 at 9:51 PM, Adara said: A lot of churches I've been to like to pledge allegiance to the U.S. flag in church, or kids AWANA/prayer classes. I'm all for respecting the flag, but I have a problem with Christians pledging allegiance to it in church. I feel like this just isn't needed and we should yield our allegiance to Christ instead. What are your thoughts? Well it says "under God" in the pledge of allegiance so I don't see a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted February 22, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted February 22, 2017 I see nothing wrong with the pledge of allegiance in church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted February 22, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.82 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 22, 2017 19 minutes ago, RustyAngeL said: I see nothing wrong with the pledge of allegiance in church. Neither do I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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