Heb 13:8 Posted December 28, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 35 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,533 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 382 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/03/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 28, 2016 11 hours ago, ZacharyB said: Believers may indeed be assured of their salvation ... IF they are obedient to what they have been commanded to do in the NT. If they are obedient, which they always will be. There are only two types of people, born again and non-born again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heb 13:8 Posted December 28, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 35 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,533 Content Per Day: 0.56 Reputation: 382 Days Won: 1 Joined: 11/03/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 28, 2016 Saying that God is a liar and in contradiction is actually sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woundeddog Posted December 28, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,370 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 1,054 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/21/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/18/1868 Share Posted December 28, 2016 On 12/23/2016 at 8:03 AM, ZacharyB said: Your unfounded and very dangerous optimism is duly noted. Unfortunately, there are NT verses which warn of believers LOSING eternal life. Try it some time ... you won't like it. Oh, you'll love it until you die! ... Then, I promise you, you won't like being in hell. The warnings are for people who unfortunately think they are believers because they got Baptized or joined a certain church. A person can be 'Churchy and talk Churchy" and even quote scripture but not have a saving relationship with Jesus-- what good is a Savior that can not keep you saved?? a parent will keep the children safe from making fatal errors--- so why should not God our Father- keep us safe from making eternally fatal errors---- if his character is not one who saves out of unconditional love, his character is one who only saves if you can " Jump High Enough ,sing loud enough-, and never have any mental heath issues that might cause you to doubt or stray. ZacharyB-- you do not have to live in fear of making a fatal error and going to hell-- You cantruely trust jesus for a safe and secure eternity based onhis ability to save-- not your ability to hang on~~~~ I paraphrase you-- "Try it some time-- you WILL like it, and I promise you, you will be happy to not be in hell" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woundeddog Posted December 28, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,370 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 1,054 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/21/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/18/1868 Share Posted December 28, 2016 On 12/23/2016 at 8:10 AM, ZacharyB said: NOW ... please understand that God decides WHO will get in! For example, He can set up conditions for this. Zach-- you are 100% correct on this-- he does decide who gets in-- and what the condition is for getting in is, and he makes it absolutely clear when he says "WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED" The WHO gets in is the" whoever"~~~~ The condition is "Calls on the name of the Lord" You don't have to make salvation so hard-- if you want to make it hard you might as well join a Roman Catholic Church Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woundeddog Posted December 28, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 44 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,370 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 1,054 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/21/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/18/1868 Share Posted December 28, 2016 On 12/22/2016 at 11:22 AM, ZacharyB said: Be happy to put them in a new thread, if so requested. It might not be a bad idea to do so-- then we can discuss them one by one and you can learn what they really mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill16652 Posted December 28, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 288 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 312 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/25/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 28, 2016 (edited) On 12/22/2016 at 2:37 PM, shiloh357 said: I am not saying that they don't mean what they are saying. I am saying that they don't mean what YOU say they mean. I don't have time to go through them all, but let's take one that is used quite often. Col. 1: 23 is an example of a first class condition. A first class condition carries the idea of "If this is true (and I am assuming it is), then this will be the result." In Col. 1:23, Paul is assuming that this is a reality: He has reconciled in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight —IF indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel Anyone who is presented to God as holy and has been reconciled to God will continue in the faith. Because that's what Christians do. That's the kind of condition Paul is using, here. Paul is using the word "if" as a 1st class condition: "IF you you continue in the faith, and I know you will..." A person who has shown true evidence of salvation will continue in the faith. They will not walk away from God. Edited December 28, 2016 by Bill16652 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill16652 Posted December 28, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 288 Content Per Day: 0.11 Reputation: 312 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/25/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 28, 2016 Yet it also says that except that those days be shortened even the very elect would not be saved and does not Hebrews 6 lay it out that those who hace tasted the good gift have fallen away? I think it is clear that people can and do fall away. Once saved always saved is perhaps the most dangerous lie the devil ever pronoted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gdemoss Posted December 28, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 59 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 4,402 Content Per Day: 0.99 Reputation: 2,154 Days Won: 28 Joined: 02/10/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/26/1971 Share Posted December 28, 2016 Eternal life is life that never changes and therefore has no end. Death is separation denoting an end. When Jesus says "depart from me you workers of iniquity, I never knew you" it is a permanent death sentence. I have eternal life in me though my carnal body be dead. Some seek to convince me that my hope should be that I be granted entrance into "heaven" upon death but I say unto you that I am already there though I be here. And when God finishes his work upon the earth, which was made to be inhabited, I will be here enjoying him forever in his Kingdom where the King is just another citizen while God the Father reigns. The son having delivered up the Kingdom unto him after subduing it unto himself. You want unchanging life? Immortality? Follow the instructions. You want eternal unchanging death and torment? Follow Satan and be an adversary through self. Self is the problem. Death to self through the cross is the solution. There will be no self-centered or selfish people in the kingdom of heaven here on earth. No one will have an opinion for all will be one, of one mind. Thy Kingdom Come! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FresnoJoe Posted December 28, 2016 Group: Graduated to Heaven Followers: 207 Topic Count: 60 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,651 Content Per Day: 1.17 Reputation: 5,761 Days Won: 4 Joined: 01/31/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/04/1943 Share Posted December 28, 2016 If If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9 (New International Version) > Then "I tell you the truth, those who listen to my message and believe in God who sent me have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins, but they have already passed from death into life. John 5:24 (New Living Translation) If For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” Romans 10:13 (English Standard Version) > Then Truly, truly, I tell you, he who believes has eternal life. John 6:47 (Berean Study Bible) Or Not.... They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us. 1 John 2:19 (New American Standard Bible) ~ Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 (King James Bible) Love, Your Brother Joe ~ Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160 (King James Bible) The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable. Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you. It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword and the Christian’s charter. Here too, Heaven is opened and the gates of Hell disclosed. Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully. It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure. It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered forever. It involves the highest responsibility, rewards the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents. From The Inside Of My Gideon New Testament Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZacharyB Posted December 28, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 410 Content Per Day: 0.13 Reputation: 175 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Author Share Posted December 28, 2016 (edited) 10 hours ago, woundeddog said: ... why should not God our Father- keep us safe from making eternally fatal errors Yes, He does indeed do His part ... by providing copious amounts of dire warnings in the NT. God's elect (who were chosen before the foundation of the world) were chosen because they chose (via their free will) to HEED these copious warnings! Their heeding led them to obeying! ... or ... Their heeding led to their obeying! Paul says @ the end of Hebrews 3 ... disobedience proves UNBELIEF. So, where are the believers? Edited December 28, 2016 by ZacharyB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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