How and Why do you believe in someone you cannot see?

[BK1110]

On 12/30/2016 at 4:34 PM, zdanman said:

But I just cannot come to believe in Jesus (and I have tried for over 20 years). I cannot see him. And there is no evidence of him from what I can see except from history and what people call the New Testament which I have read over many times and yes it is very beautiful and thoughtfully written albeit by men. The message is very compelling but it stops there - at 'believe in me'.

So I raise this question, to help me understand, to those on this forum who say they know Jesus on a personal level - how do you believe in someone you cannot see?

To be clear, are you questioning whether we refer to as Jesus Christ existed, or whether that man was much more than just a man? Because there's as much, if not more, evidence for the historical man named Jesus as there is for any other historical figure, so you can't question that unless you question basically all of history. So let's start there.

But even then, you say you do believe there is a God because nature demands such belief. This is good logic...but even with that, you can't see God. You know He exists because of creation leaves you no other logical option. It's like in a court case; you can't actually SEE the defendant committing the murder that happened in the past, but if you have a gun with his finger prints on it, and that gun ballistically matches the bullet found in the body, and you have eyewitnesses who all tell the same story about what they saw, and you know the victim had offended the defendant in the past, well, all that evidence demands a certain verdict.

Might I recommend "The Cast for Christ" by Lee Strobel? A great book, not as heavy and long as some, that could be a great starting point for you.

[Paper mache]

On ‎12‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 5:34 PM, zdanman said:

I am who some may call a 'seeker' but have grown discouraged. Grew up in a religious household and now am in my late 20s.

Its easy to see the God exists. Creation makes that evident.

I feel like I know God. I've felt His presence. I don't know doctrinally who He is... the God of Abraham; Mohammed; or the Trinity.

I'm sure he is not 100% pleased with me and the way I live but I can only do so much in this skin. I have many ingrained desires and wants which, without supernatural help, I cannot overcome.

But I just cannot come to believe in Jesus (and I have tried for over 20 years). I cannot see him. And there is no evidence of him from what I can see except from history and what people call the New Testament which I have read over many times and yes it is very beautiful and thoughtfully written albeit by men. The message is very compelling but it stops there - at 'believe in me'.

So I raise this question, to help me understand, to those on this forum who say they know Jesus on a personal level - how do you believe in someone you cannot see?

How do you know that you know Jesus on a personal level and not the God of Abraham or some other?

Remember nature tells us there is a God, however I know of nothing that tells me there is a Jesus and He is alive today.... nothing.

How do you know who you are talking to when you pray is Jesus and not the God of Abraham or Mohammed?

Jesus is God. So if you believe in God, it's not that much different to believe in Jesus. Just because you haven't seen Him is not a reason not to believe - if you've ever been on an airplane, chances are, you trusted the pilot to get you to your destination safely even though you've probably never even seen the pilot. Every time you sit down on a chair  without checking all of its parts to make sure it will hold up, you trust in the strength of that chair to keep you up, even though you haven't checked the chair out. You trust that George Washington existed, even though you've never personally witnessed his existence, you've only ever read about him in a book (or maybe watched a few documentaries). Why should Jesus be any different? Jesus was simply the physical manifestation of an invisible God.

I've been in the same boat as you before. I didn't know how to believe in something I could not see, until I started to think about the things above. But with prayer, God has lifted me out of that dark trench. Prayer is key to a Christian's life, along with faith and patience. Perhaps pray to God to heal your unbelief and reveal the truth to you. I'll be praying for you.

[missmuffet]

[zdanman]

On 12/31/2016 at 2:28 PM, gdemoss said:

God bless you! Great post.

I believe in Jesus.

I couldn't in and of myself.  No one can.  God must reveal him unto you.

Our job is to seek God. 

You have started.  You understand God is by creation.  

You state that you expect God isn't very happy with you due to the way you live.  Then you excuse yourself by blaming your skin.  That is why you won't be allowed to know Jesus.  You don't need a savior when you excuse yourself.  Why would God give you one?

very interesting indeed.

[gdemoss]

11 hours ago, zdanman said:

very interesting indeed.

When Christ was revealed to me I was at a place where I could see my need.

A man spoke with me concerning my faults.  He asked me if I had ever knowingly done anything wrong to which I said yes.  Next he asked how I intended to pay for my faults.  I said I suppose I will have to do more good.  He asked me if we were created only for the purpose of doing good then how could I expect that doing what I was created to do would pay the debt of my errors.  I was stumped on that one.  He had me.  I couldn't do more good because good is what I was created to do.  No, I would need a savior. 

No sooner than I saw our true need for a savior then Jesus came into view and I could see the truth in how only the only begotten Son of God could be an offering to pay my debt.  How Jesus crucified could guarantee the resurrection of all for the purpose of judgment.  

That was only the beginning of my journey. So much has happened since that I have learned about a lot else that I was once blind too.

It is a truly exciting journey.  Sometimes it hurts, bad, but overall it is amazing. Peace.

[Leonardo Von]

On 12/30/2016 at 8:34 PM, zdanman said:

how do you believe in someone you cannot see?

Dear Zdanman,

 

We all need to believe in something or someone. If we do not believe in Jesus, what will we believe in? What is worthy of our trust? The corrupt system that rules second? The human being? See what the scripture says:

 

·        “Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?” (Jeremiah 17.5,9).

·        The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.” (Psalms 58.3).

·        “And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.” (Genesis 8.21).

·        “And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.” (Isaiah 64.6).

·        “What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; as it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: their feet are swift to shed blood: destruction and misery are in their ways: and the way of peace have they not known: there is no fear of God before their eyes.” (Romans 3.9-18).

·        “Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.” (Romans 7.13-21).

 

           It is the human being so flawed, unstable, fragile, corrupt, is it easier to believe in the human being or in Jesus? To know more about this, visit the post: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/201399-why-do-you-believe/?do=findComment&comment=2444103

[Pie]

On 12/30/2016 at 4:34 PM, zdanman said:

I am who some may call a 'seeker' but have grown discouraged. Grew up in a religious household and now am in my late 20s.

Its easy to see the God exists. Creation makes that evident.

I feel like I know God. I've felt His presence. I don't know doctrinally who He is... the God of Abraham; Mohammed; or the Trinity.

I'm sure he is not 100% pleased with me and the way I live but I can only do so much in this skin. I have many ingrained desires and wants which, without supernatural help, I cannot overcome.

But I just cannot come to believe in Jesus (and I have tried for over 20 years). I cannot see him. And there is no evidence of him from what I can see except from history and what people call the New Testament which I have read over many times and yes it is very beautiful and thoughtfully written albeit by men. The message is very compelling but it stops there - at 'believe in me'.

So I raise this question, to help me understand, to those on this forum who say they know Jesus on a personal level - how do you believe in someone you cannot see?

How do you know that you know Jesus on a personal level and not the God of Abraham or some other?

Remember nature tells us there is a God, however I know of nothing that tells me there is a Jesus and He is alive today.... nothing.

How do you know who you are talking to when you pray is Jesus and not the God of Abraham or Mohammed?

 

 

 

Mohammed? I don't think even Muslims pray to Mohammed? He's a prophet correct? Not considered Allah? 

Also, the God of Abraham is considered by Christian doctrine to be God. I believe because I believe Christianity is true and also due to personal experience.

       I understand that it can be difficult at times to believe in what you can't touch and feel and see. As others have pointed out, there are many such things we cannot see, that we regard as real things. However, we are talking about God. And you already consider yourself a theist. You want to know why we believe in Christian theism? The beauty of Christianity is that it gives us not only historical context but it bases its entire claim on one event, the resurrection of Jesus from the dead. Even Paul says, if Christ did not rise, then our faith is in vain. 1 Corinthians 15:14 " And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain."
 
       So I'm assuming you're having trouble with believing Christ did rise from the dead and is who he says he is. It's a bold claim isn't it? The apostles weren't claiming he rose spiritually from the dead. They claimed he physically rose from the dead! The tomb was empty. They gave up everything and they were willing to die terrible deaths because they believed so fervently that Jesus truly had risen from the dead. Why? Because he appeared to them and 500 some others. Some critics have tried to come up with alternative theories. None of them explain Paul's conversion, James the brother of Jesus' conversion, the empty tomb,  and the apostles belief that Jesus had truly risen and were willing to die for it. None of them explain all of the facts. The best explanation for all the evidence is that he did rise from the dead. If you're interested in this topic, then there's many resources available that go over the historical evidence for the resurrection of Jesus.

An example would be "The Case for the Ressurection of Jesus" by Gary Habermas. In this book, Habermas and Licona use a minimal facts approach. This means they use only the facts that both Christian scholars and skeptics agree on. There's many more resources and there's even debates on youtube on the historical evidence for the resurrection of Jesus and lectures you can access for free. 

But is that why you are struggling to believe? I only ask because there was a time when I discovered all the evidence and still found it hard to accept. When I prayed, it truly felt silly and pointless. In fact, it felt that way for years.  I was very conflicted. My mind had started to accept it was the truth but my heart just wasn't there yet. So if there's an emotional barrier there, that's an entirely different subject.  My advice if that is the case is this, keep seeking God. Keep praying even though it feels strange and pointless. Keep asking him to open your heart and help your heart and mind to believe. Don't be afraid to tell him you're full of doubt and you need his help. He hears you. You may not notice anything immediately. But know that He is listening even when it feels like He isn't.  I mean you're here and you're asking for a reason. He sees you. =)

Edited February 3, 2017 by Pie

[KittyBubbleFlowers]

On 12/30/2016 at 5:34 PM, zdanman said:

I am who some may call a 'seeker' but have grown discouraged. Grew up in a religious household and now am in my late 20s.

Its easy to see the God exists. Creation makes that evident.

I feel like I know God. I've felt His presence. I don't know doctrinally who He is... the God of Abraham; Mohammed; or the Trinity.

I'm sure he is not 100% pleased with me and the way I live but I can only do so much in this skin. I have many ingrained desires and wants which, without supernatural help, I cannot overcome.

But I just cannot come to believe in Jesus (and I have tried for over 20 years). I cannot see him. And there is no evidence of him from what I can see except from history and what people call the New Testament which I have read over many times and yes it is very beautiful and thoughtfully written albeit by men. The message is very compelling but it stops there - at 'believe in me'.

So I raise this question, to help me understand, to those on this forum who say they know Jesus on a personal level - how do you believe in someone you cannot see?

How do you know that you know Jesus on a personal level and not the God of Abraham or some other?

Remember nature tells us there is a God, however I know of nothing that tells me there is a Jesus and He is alive today.... nothing.

How do you know who you are talking to when you pray is Jesus and not the God of Abraham or Mohammed?

 

 I believe Jesus knows we are speaking to him when our spirit and heart connect in prayer and supplication invoking his name and spirit. 

You've read the Bible. Jesus tells us God knows his own. He leads us to salvation in Christ because God, who was Christ, knew each one of us uniquely and before he even created this earth. How would he then not know us when we pray in Jesus name?

You can't see him but he see's you. And really when you say you see God in all that is, nature, etc... you're seeing Jesus also. Because Jesus said he and his father are one. 

 

Welcome to the site. May we be a blessing to you and you a blessing to our community. 

 

[Guest BacKaran]

Jesus rose from the dead and the tomb is still empty... Ruined still trying to figure out how He did that, oh that they would only believe and know He is God.

[Churchmouse]

Quote

How and Why do you believe in someone you cannot see?

Why do you find this questionable when there are so many things that can't be seen in this world and we know they exist because we detect them around us.  Have you ever seen a smell. I know I haven't but I know, depending on it's composition, it can very well make me feel better or worse.

The holy Spirit is, to me, like that.  Not exactly a smell, but a presence that surrounds me and engulfs me in some of the sweetest feelings I've ever had.

 

I don't know about you, but many people search for God in the places they expect him and in doing so miss a good part of his influence on your life because they weren't looking in that dirrection. God sometimes uses people who walk into your life, when you need it, with all the right words or a new direction for you to take. God's ways are not our ways. He knows us and what we need before we even ask for it.

Edited February 5, 2017 by Churchmouse