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Objective morality


Seanc

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On 1/4/2017 at 7:54 AM, woundeddog said:

forget CS LEWIS-- a biblical response would be- Mankind has always know-- even though many outwardly deny it- that man is created in Gods image-- hence it is hardwired into our souls to watch out for each other--- unfortunately- we succumb to sin and favor ourselves first-- inside we know "love thy neighbor as thyself"- but we deny that to serve our sinful self

How is one to love their neighbor if they do not love themselves first?

As to the first post or OP, I don't think C.S. Lewis can speak for the consciousness of humanity itself. He wasn't professionally equipped to know such things. He was an atheist turned Christian and opined from that dual perspective .

 

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42 minutes ago, soonsister said:

How is one to love their neighbor if they do not love themselves first

for the most part loving self come naturally-- The Lord doesnt say love your neighbor MORE than your self- but as your self~~~~~ meaning treat the neighbor like you want to be treated-- I know there are all kinds of " self loathing" issues etc, but if you know how you want to be treated- thats how you should treat others--- do not use " I dont love myself" as an excuse to not treat others well or go out of your way to help them-- treat em like you want to be treated~~

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The Outer Court is designated for anyone who does not necessarily believe in God's atonement through Jesus -- it's the designated area of the ministry for those who are Undecided to ask questions, to join discussions, and to have fellowship.        

 

 

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On 1/4/2017 at 10:05 AM, woundeddog said:

it's not out intellectual arguments that change the heart- its the word of God that changes hearts

Once again I 100% agree with you which is why I said I always back it up with scripture, there is nothing wrong with discussing morality, logic, intentionality or anything else for that matter as a means to starting a discussion geared toward witnessing. Now since this forum is about apologetics let's get back on topic with any examples of objective morality.

SeanC

Not to be offensive but since this Forum is a Christian Ministry our first & foremost goal is to Spread the Gospel & give Glory to God!This Forum is reserved for our unbelievers,seekers & guests to ask US QUESTIONS about our Faith.....we have the Inner Court(Apologetics),Upper Room,News & vIdeo SEctions to begin Threads & they only have this Section ....                                                           With love-in Christ,Kwik

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Guest shiloh357
20 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

Not to be offensive but since this Forum is a Christian Ministry our first & foremost goal is to Spread the Gospel & give Glory to God!This Forum is reserved for our unbelievers,seekers & guests to ask US QUESTIONS about our Faith.....we have the Inner Court(Apologetics),Upper Room,News & vIdeo SEctions to begin Threads & they only have this Section ....                                                           With love-in Christ,Kwik

Actually, Apologetics is in the Outer Court and so apologetic arguments are apropos for this thread.

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I didn't write,George did..............No matter what any Section or Forum someone wants to answer with the Word of God is ALWAYS appropriate,imo    Thats what a Christian Ministry is & that is really my point,thanks

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7 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

I didn't write,George did..............No matter what any Section or Forum someone wants to answer with the Word of God is ALWAYS appropriate,imo    Thats what a Christian Ministry is & that is really my point,thanks

I wasn't putting down his answer in any way at all. I responded to it saying I completely agreed with him. I only said that his comments were getting away from the point of my thread and more toward how to minister. I do understand this is the outer court and any nonbelievers are welcome to answer, however if there were an "inner court" apologetics forum I would have posted this there instead

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On 1/4/2017 at 7:13 AM, Seanc said:

 

Before I submit this I want to say that I believe in an objective morality but I need help to further understand it before i even try to explain it to someone else. Anyone got an answer?

 

Let me try to explain what is meant by objective and subjective using an example.

Suppose you place a glass of water on your desk. If one were to then make the claim, "There is a glass of water on my desk", what is it that makes the claim a true claim?

Is it the fact that you can see the glass of water sitting on your desk? No, that's not it, because if you closed your eyes the glass of water wouldn't disappear, right? So, the fact that you're perceiving it with your senses isn't what makes it true.

What about your knowledge of having placed the glass on the desk? Is that what makes the claim true? Well, then one must ask whether the glass would disappear if you forgot that you placed it there? No it won't. The claim "there is a glass of water on the desk" would be true even if nobody knew it was there.

What makes the claim true is the fact that there is a desk with a glass placed upon it. The truth-maker in this instance is therefore objectively true because the truth of the claim is grounded in the object itself (the glass upon the table) and not the beholder (subject).

So if we take this to morality when we claim that rape is wrong, what does it mean?

If morality is objective then the claim says something about rape, namely that it is wrong.

If morality is subjective then the claim says something about the person making the claim (the subject), namely that they would prefer a world where there wasn't rape. According to moral-subjectivists there is no real moral difference between raping and not raping, the distinction therefore is not the act of rape but in their own preference regarding the act.

This is why moral objectivists are also referred to as moral realists, because they believe moral categories are real (Don't confuse real with physical).

Moral subjectivists or moral relativists on the other hand believe that moral categories are not real and thus are mere constructs in the observers mind. Thus a shorthand way of making the distinction is referring to objective as mind independent, and subjective as mind dependent.

Hope that helps.


 

 

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I wasn't putting down his answer in any way at all.                                      SeanC

FANTASTIC................thanks for the clarification,it means a lot......wouldn't want anyone to think we didn't love one another,encourage one another and appreciate each others comments.....God Bless you                                                                                         With love-in Christ,Kwik

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@luftwaffle.  Great explanation, thanks for that.

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Guest Thallasa
On ‎04‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 4:05 PM, woundeddog said:

it's not out intellectual arguments that change the heart- its the word of God that changes hearts

This is absolutely true ,and it is this rigid rule of 'objective morality ',which creates problems with rule minded christians . God designed Creation and us, after His Way ;that is  Creation in it's perfection, is a Mirror of God .

Now  some  scientists  who are taught by the HS, recognise the glory and complexity of the created 'world ,which includes us . If God made us like Him it means that we knew and understood the 'objective morality '( laws)  which allows us to live in creation with a Holy ,Loving and creative God .

Those who do not understand that God does not make rules just for the sake of it ,but to keep in harmony all that is loving and beautiful ,and that only He can do that ,become part of the problem .

Objective morality means that certain ways of being allow the continuation of a beautiful and harmonious creation indefinitely ,whereas Atheism is short lived as it makes up subjective but temporary morality according to the desires and whims of individuals . Those who regard history and cultures can see that every culture which gets rid of God dies .All idolatry ,and that which does not put God at the centre of All creation includes Science which in reality is of God ,but is denied as such by limited beings ,who do not have the Spirit of God Inside them .

 

 

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