Carry your cross, follow Jesus, die to self -- for eternal life

[delade3]

On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 6:06 AM, ZacharyB said:

All Scriptures below are from the NKJV …

 

Mark 8:34-37

“Whoever desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. 

For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and

the gospel’s (sake) will save it. For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world,

and loses his own soul? (**) Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?”

 

(**) “and is himself destroyed or lost” – see Luke 9:25 below

“he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life” – see John 12:25 below

 

“There is only one kind of true Christian; that is, a disciple … “You must deny yourself.” That means

that to follow Christ a person must give up his own desires and live only according to Christ’s desire.

We must deny our own pleasure, our own advantage, our own comfort … after we become Christians,

we must live completely for God … we must be ready to suffer and die for Him. Suffering and persecution

will come to all who follow Christ (John 15:19, 2 Timothy 3:12). There can be no crown without the cross.

… Whoever denies Christ in order to save his life (his life in this world, his pleasures, his pride, his honor

and reputation, his possessions, his physical life) will lose his life (his true life, spiritual life, eternal life).

But, whoever loses his life for Christ (that is, his life in this world, his pride, his honor, his possessions,

his physical life itself) will save his life; he will obtain true spiritual life, eternal life. To lose one’s life

for Christ and the Gospel means to deny one’s self and take up (one’s) cross and follow Jesus.”

… The Applied New Testament Commentary – Thomas Hale, 1996, ChariotVictor Publishing

(Dr. Hale is a Spirit-filled believer who served as a medical missionary with Interserve in Nepal.)

 

Matthew 10:38-39

“And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 

He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.”

 

Matthew 16:24-26

“If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.

For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 

For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?

Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?”

 

Luke 9:23-25

“If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross DAILY, and follow Me. 

For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it. 

For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost?”

 

Luke 14:26-27,33

“If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children,

brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. 

And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. 

… whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.”

 

John 12:25-26

“He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. 

If anyone serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there My servant will be also.

If anyone serves Me, him My Father will honor.”

 

“But we all must ‘die’ to ourselves. Our old sinful self must die, otherwise we shall not be able to bear

fruit for Christ (Mark 8:34-35, Romans 6:2-6, Galatians 5:24) … Jesus didn’t mean we must actually

‘hate’ ourselves. Rather He was saying that our love for Him must be so great that, in comparison,

our love for ourselves will seem like hate (Luke 14:26). Indeed, we cannot love our old sinful self

and Christ at the same time (Matthew 6:24).”

… The Applied New Testament Commentary – Thomas Hale, 1996, ChariotVictor Publishing

 

The cross was the Roman method of carrying out the death sentence.

The prisoner was made to carry his own cross to the place of execution.

A Christian is called to carry his cross daily while dying to self – to receive eternal life

(reference: the NT).

It's much easier just to walk alongside Him instead of walking alone carrying a cross you might not know how to properly carry...  I walk with Christ; not a cross which Christ died on. And of course, just as Jesus never sipped on wine or ate any meat or attended any festivities, so we also do... hence we deny ourselves for Him.   Besides, when we are out in the boon dogs with noone around us, we are still denying ourselves alone...

Edited March 25, 2017 by delade3

[Jeff2]

If you die to self, perhaps you may find Nirvana! Many mix Buddhist teaching in with Christianity, and take it that it is necessary that we die to "self". But God's qualm is not with who we are, but our rebellion with Him.

The "cost" of being a Christian would lead to the dividing of families, persecution, and even death. The "cost" will well be worth anything we sacrifice for Christ. Denying ourselves entertainment, a better car, a nicer apartment, a steak and eating baloney sandwich instead...  is not Christianity. In fact, the duty to love oneself is necessary in respect to Jesus' command, "Love your neighbor as yourself."

The only people I have known to be the most dead to self are extreme drug addicts. They don't care if they die doing drugs. They don't care if they rob you for money to pay for their drugs. They are truly "dead to self."

Edited April 5, 2017 by Jeff2

[Jeff2]

Much of the current emphasis on "self" being something bad, was introduced into Christianity by Augustine, who was a Manichean before he was a Christian. Yet this conglomerate religion of Manicheanism was a mixture of Greek philosophy, Buddhism, and Gnostic Christianity. All of which revolve around a strong dualism; the extreme separation between the spirit and the flesh. An anti-Christian concept brought into Christian doctrine was Augustine's view that sex was evil, since it promoted matter. All matter is evil. All flesh is matter.

 

But to reemphasize, God's qualm is not with our flesh, but our rebellion with Him. The flesh is often used as a synonym of the sinful nature, as contrasted by Jesus being born "in the likeness" of sinful flesh. Now, Jesus was truly born, and truly had flesh. So, it is not the Flesh/matter that is odious to God, but that it is not Spirit.

 

Paul writes, "However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you." (Romans 8:9). Yet, you are still in the "Flesh" physically.

Are we to take that mankind is evil because they are Flesh/Matter? Do we ignore verse 9, and only look at verse 8? "those who are in the flesh cannot please God." ? Self in Scripture is something to be saved, not despised. We are not saved from ourselves, but the defilement of self, cleansed from the filthiness of the Flesh; not our "selves" or our bodies, which are "Flesh"; but the filthiness of that Flesh.     

 

Edited April 5, 2017 by Jeff2

[ZacharyB]

3 hours ago, Jeff2 said:

 Paul writes,

"However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you." (Romans 8:9). 

Would you care to partake in a thread that investigates the several NT verses which say:

God indwells those believers who love Jesus, obey Him, and a few more conditions?

Edited April 5, 2017 by ZacharyB

[Jeff2]

Would you care to partake in a thread that investigates the several NT verses which say: 
God indwells those believers who love Jesus, obey Him, and a few more conditions? 

Zachary, it would probably be best to start a new thread. You mention three distinct subjects, Conditions, obedience, and how God indwells the believe and what that means.  All three do challenge the idea that once one believes, nothing else is necessary. I would suggest focusing narrowly, since things always broaden on their own as they touch other areas.

I would participate as far as my work schedule allows.

 

 

[ZacharyB]

Okay, Jeff, I'll start the thread this weekend.

Edited April 7, 2017 by ZacharyB

[Willa]

On 1/7/2017 at 10:53 PM, simplejeff said:

For over ten years several watchers have been asking if anyone at all,  one person,  has been saved via the internet.. ....  so far either no one, or no one knows,  and just like in churches without anyone saved,  the questions are called "unfair" !?

In person, in cities across the usa,  whenever a church began saving people,  A LOT of opposition was mounted against it.  So they don't advertise nor publicize anywhere - not on tv, internet, or forums.  A few that became known, were bulldozed (literally and or figuratively - either way, they're disbanded/ gone/ silent/ underground)....

Quoting NT Scriptures,  while it may be and is LIFE from YHWH in Y'SHUA,  is not always welcome.  Self-sacrifice is rarely welcome, even though Y'SHUA requires it and says so.

Many people have been saved in our chat room.  I believe that Logan was saved here as well.  

Once saved we are called to 

Rom 12:1  ESV I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Rom 12:2  Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

The renewing of our minds is done by washing them in the word of God and allowing God to conform us to the likeness of Christ  Only Christ in us can live the Christian life.  

I always say that I am my own worst enemy.  It is my selfishness and self centeredness that I must die to so that Christ may be seen in me. John the Baptist said "I must decrease that He might increase."  While he was speaking of his ministry and popularity, it is a statement that we can apply more personally.

Gal 2:20  I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.  Gal 2:21  I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

So if we are speaking of winning souls, we share the Gospel of repentance of turning from sin to Christ for forgiveness.  But if we are speaking of our daily commitment to walk in the Spirit we speak of dying to our our selfishness.  The latter has to do with reigning in life with Christ through His gift of righteousness. 

 

Rom 5:17 WEB  For if by the trespass of the one, death reigned through the one; so much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one, Jesus Christ.

 

[Behold]

On 1/7/2017 at 4:28 PM, ZacharyB said:

How is quoting the NT Scriptures taking any kind of intellectual approach?

I'd say it's more of an "obedience-instead-of-ignoring" approach!

Meanwhile, Jesus has sent me to teach against the easy-free-grace OSAS doctrine.

The legalist (you)  always tries to work their way into heaven, while the rest of us leave it up to Jesus to take care of it, (for us).

Here is a clue for you.

You can no more (before Jesus Died),,  by lifestyle, by confessing sins, by daily repentance, or by walking in the steps of Jesus, SAVE YOURSELF,  then you can (after Jesus has risen).

Also.. recognizing  Jesus to be the Savior and God the giver of Righteousness for FREE so that "by Grace you are saved through faith",, is not an "easy grace" situation, but rather its the only way to heaven.

Every Christian needs to GRACE CHECK themselves on occasion by asking themselves...."If i died today, what am I TRUSTING to get me to Heaven".

And if the only answer that pops into your head isn't "in Christ alone I PLACE MY TRUST"....then you are ither not saved, or you are saved but are fallen from Grace and have become a LEGALIST.   Galatians 5:1 & 4

Edited April 7, 2017 by Behold

[ZacharyB]

21 hours ago, Behold said:

The legalist (you)  always tries to work their way into heaven ...

FYI (not that it will do you any good) ...

My whole and entire focus has been upon those poor deceived souls (perhaps you are one)

who are born-again, butski are deeply involved in habitual (unrepentant) sin!

This simply means that unless they sincerely REPENT, they are headed for eternal death.

Ref. the entire NT.

There are several possible reasons for a person to be this deplorable condition!

And you have a great day also!

Edited April 8, 2017 by ZacharyB

[Behold]

34 minutes ago, ZacharyB said:

 

This simply means that unless they sincerely REPENT, they are headed for eternal death.

 

 

The only way you can be "headed for eternal death", is if you are a Christ Rejector.    Other then that, you should see the Apostle Paul asap and find out a few things about Redemption as He teaches it so that you can stop being a Galatians 1:8.

Start with Romans Chapter 3, and study.

The only other advice i can give you, is to stop reading commentaries, as this is your issue with completely not understanding the 'Atonement"

 

Edited April 8, 2017 by Behold