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disproving evolution in 5 minutes or less


justme007

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Does a worm know how wormish it is?  Would it form a theory of wormology? Could it ever be correct? Could it ever get far enough from its wormacy to embrace completely its origin? Does it really care or is it content to be just a worm, yet unaware completely of what it is in its entirety?

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4 hours ago, Kevinb said:

Unless you've some evidence this has ever happened? 

I have subjective evidence starting when I was 12 years old. If you want evidence God is not a genie in a bottle. We are not God, He is. So we have to read the Bible and know what we are looking for and see how He wants to express Himself in our life. In fact the Bible is called the old and new testament. This is a covenant between us and God. We can be sure if we do our part of the Covenant then He will do His part. Even they have books you can buy that show us all the many promises we find in the Bible.  They call them pocket promise books. If we do our part of the covenant then we can be sure that God will do His part. For example: Jeremiah 29:13 "You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart." If we SEEK God we will find Him. Our part is to seek Him with all of our heart. If we do not do OUR PART to seek Him with all of our heart then we can not expect that we are going to find Him. 

My experience is that we do not "find Him" so much as He finds me, He comes to me and presents Himself to me in ways that I can understand and comprehend what God is all about and what God wants and expects from me. So that I can live the life He wants me to live. 

Moses tells us that we all have a choice in life. We can choose life or death, sickness or health, blessing or curse, poverty or prosperity. Now my son right now is in college. He worked hard in high school and he got a scholarship for college to help pay for that.  Yesterday he came home somewhat upset because he is taking calculus 3 and it is difficult. He is working very hard hoping to get a C although he will most likely get a B because he is working so hard on the class.  My point is he believes if he works hard he can get a good education and get a good job and he can have prosperity in life. Yet there are many kids back in high school that just did not do the work they needed to do to prosper. They made a choice for poverty in life without even realizing that is what they were doing.  I am sure they have lots of excuses for the choice they made. 

The truth in the Bible is infinite and we could go on forever learning, reading and doing a study on the truth that we find in the Word of God. No other book in the world is like the Bible because no other book deals with infinity the way the Bible does.  We could spend our whole life just to do a study on the very first word in the Bible: "beginning" or even the very first letter in the very first word in the Bible: "B". We could ask why is the first letter in the Bible the second letter in our alphabet? B has a numerical value of 2. Before 2 we have 0 and 1. This gives us the code you need to program a computer or DNA. We have off and on. We have body and soul. With the introduction of the Bible we now have a new aspect to life the Spirit. We have the breath of life and man becomes spiritual. This is above the animals. Apart from man an animal does not have a spiritual aspect. The angels are spiritual and they angels watch over the animals, but the animals themselves do not have a spirit the way Adam and Eve were has a Spirit and were Spiritual. 

So you can see a whole book can be written on the very first letter in the very first word of the Bible. The Bible is infinite, there is no end and no beginning with God. Although He is the alpha and the omega. He knows the end from the beginning. You can not have an end without a beginning and you cannot have a beginning without an end. Many books would be written about the beginning and what the Bible means by beginning. The next word in the Bible is creation. Every book in the world could be written about Creation and we would still only be starting to understand all there is to know about creation. Then the third word is God. So in the beginning of creation was God. Because God has no beginning. He has always existed and He does not change. He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. 

No book is like the Bible. The Bible becomes new and takes on a new meaning for each and every generation. WE need to discover the Bible new for ourselves. We can not just go by our parents or grandparents understanding. WE need to discover the Bible for ourselves. Each individual has to seek the truth for themselves. I can not do it for you, only you can do it for yourself. Just like my son could not do the work for his fellow high school students. He could only do his own work and decide for himself what he wants to do with his life. 

Edited by JohnR7
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4 hours ago, Kevinb said:

As a non believer I'd disagree with the only thing that makes life worth living is we'd be used by god to achieve this.

Salvation is not based on what we do or our works. Salvation is a free gift from God. Like any gift the only condition is for us to receive the gift. Because we can refuse to receive the gift of eternal life that God wants to give us. If we choose to work or if we choose to serve God then we will receive rewards. We receive rewards here in this life and in the life to come. But doing good works for God is not a condition of salvation. Although some consider this to be evidence that they are saved. Because we become a new creation in Christ. The old passes away and all things become new. 

Still like I explained life is a choice so each and every individual has to make that choice to live their life. For me to serve God is a part of my choice for the life I live. But like I said there is no requirement to serve God. That is just an individual choice that people make. This gets into quite a discussion about choice and our freedom to make choices in life. If you could contribute to the discussion on what makes life worth living I would be happy to hear what you have to say and why you feel your life has meaning and why you feel your life is worth living. Each individual has to find their own way in life.  God writes the book of our life before we are even born. He gives us gifts talents and abilities that we need to develop. We should use what HE gives us to bring Him honor and glory. Although if we honor God with our life is out choice to make. Again each and every individual has to make that choice for themselves. 

For me to use the gifts, talents and abilities that God give me to honor Him is the right and the correct choice to make. But we can write our own book or we can let satan write the book of our life if we do not want to follow God and the plan that He has for us and our life. It is your choice. Each and every individual has to make that choice for themselves. I really would rather not choose and I would rather not have to take the responsibility for that choice. But that is one thing we do not have a choice in. We have to choice and we can not make a choice NOT to chose.  Although there is always a default if we refuse to choice. Or if we choose not to choose. 

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3 hours ago, JohnR7 said:

Salvation is not based on what we do or our works. Salvation is a free gift from God. Like any gift the only condition is for us to receive the gift. Because we can refuse to receive the gift of eternal life that God wants to give us. If we choose to work or if we choose to serve God then we will receive rewards. We receive rewards here in this life and in the life to come. But doing good works for God is not a condition of salvation. Although some consider this to be evidence that they are saved. Because we become a new creation in Christ. The old passes away and all things become new. 

Still like I explained life is a choice so each and every individual has to make that choice to live their life. For me to serve God is a part of my choice for the life I live. But like I said there is no requirement to serve God. That is just an individual choice that people make. This gets into quite a discussion about choice and our freedom to make choices in life. If you could contribute to the discussion on what makes life worth living I would be happy to hear what you have to say and why you feel your life has meaning and why you feel your life is worth living. Each individual has to find their own way in life.  God writes the book of our life before we are even born. He gives us gifts talents and abilities that we need to develop. We should use what HE gives us to bring Him honor and glory. Although if we honor God with our life is out choice to make. Again each and every individual has to make that choice for themselves. 

For me to use the gifts, talents and abilities that God give me to honor Him is the right and the correct choice to make. But we can write our own book or we can let satan write the book of our life if we do not want to follow God and the plan that He has for us and our life. It is your choice. Each and every individual has to make that choice for themselves. I really would rather not choose and I would rather not have to take the responsibility for that choice. But that is one thing we do not have a choice in. We have to choice and we can not make a choice NOT to chose.  Although there is always a default if we refuse to choice. Or if we choose not to choose. 

Interesting. My position is we can choose what to do with our lives.. to a reasonable degree. What we believe in a sense of whats true about reality ie is there a god... then which God or are there no gods. This isn't a choice...i don't choose to not believe in any of a thousand gods. We don't all have our own truths on reality. We should be compelled to believe and follow the evidence. If we care about what's actually true then demonstrable levels of evidence must dictate our beliefs. Else it's picking what we like and want... what our particular local religion just so happens to be.. what religion we're grown up believing by our parents or indoctrinated into. 

The only default should be to not accept any claims until there's evidential warrant. Evidence should form beliefs not beliefs form our evidence. 

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1 hour ago, Kevinb said:

Interesting. My position is we can choose what to do with our lives.. to a reasonable degree. What we believe in a sense of whats true about reality ie is there a god... then which God or are there no gods. This isn't a choice...i don't choose to not believe in any of a thousand gods. We don't all have our own truths on reality. We should be compelled to believe and follow the evidence. If we care about what's actually true then demonstrable levels of evidence must dictate our beliefs. Else it's picking what we like and want... what our particular local religion just so happens to be.. what religion we're grown up believing by our parents or indoctrinated into. 

The only default should be to not accept any claims until there's evidential warrant. Evidence should form beliefs not beliefs form our evidence. 

It was really simple in my case. I needed answers and solutions.  Science had NOTHING to offer me. I looked everywhere and I could find nothing. Then someone suggested I look in the Bible because I had NOTHING to lose. Everything I was looking for was there in the Bible. I found the solutions and answers I was looking for.  That was about 40 years ago. So now after 40 years have passed I continue to find all the answers and solutions in the Bible. I would not ever want to go back to a life of not having the answers and solutions to whatever problems that life can throw our way.  God has provided us with many, many promises in the Bible. We know beyond all doubt that He is: "able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we can ask or think." Eph3:20. " we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." Romans 8:28

So if your happy with your life that is fine.  My life with God and the Bible is exceedingly abundantly better than what my life was like before God. We know that we walk with God because our life continues to get better. If our life were going from bad to worse then we would know that we are not right with God. If atheists are happy and content with their life that is fine. I was not happy and content at all with my life before I became a christian and I would not want to ever go back to what I had before. 

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Is there a way to disprove mechanistic evolution in five seconds?

1. Only intelligent designers can perform evolution experiments

2. No one has seen macro evolution

3. The fossil record is constant gaps and anomalies

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On 3/15/2018 at 8:54 AM, Billiards Ball said:

1. Only intelligent designers can perform evolution experiments

Are you suggesting that the intellectual capability required to perform experiments could only have originated from intelligent design? What if God used evolution as a tool, would that not also meet the requirement?

(Actually, that could also be considered Intelligent Design, but not mutually exclusive of evolution.)

On 3/15/2018 at 8:54 AM, Billiards Ball said:

2. No one has seen macro evolution

What are you defining as macro evolution? If you are referring to something like the evolution of a tetrapod arm to a cetacean fin, of course no one has seen it. Changes in this scale are hypothesized to have taken millions of years, and we have roughly 3,000 years of recorded history, most of it missing the level of scientific investigation we see today. We are stuck with having to use clues like the fossil record to determine what has happened in the past.

On 3/15/2018 at 8:54 AM, Billiards Ball said:

3. The fossil record is constant gaps and anomalies

The fossil record is certainly incomplete and will probably always be so, but there is still a lot of information to work with. Do you have documented examples of these anomalies you refer to?

Edited by one.opinion
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16 minutes ago, one.opinion said:

Are you suggesting that the intellectual capability required to perform experiments could only have originated from intelligent design? What if God used evolution as a tool, would that not also meet the requirement?

(Actually, that could also be considered Intelligent Design, but not mutually exclusive of evolution.)

What are you defining as macro evolution? If you are referring to something like the evolution of a tetrapod arm to a cetacean fin, of course no one has seen it. Changes in this scale are hypothesized to have taken millions of years, and we have roughly 3,000 years of recorded history, most of it missing the level of scientific investigation we see today. We are stuck with having to use clues like the fossil record to determine what has happened in the past.

The fossil record is certainly incomplete and will probably always be so, but there is still a lot of information to work with. Do you have documented examples of these anomalies you refer to?

Sorry, only have five minutes. LOL.

But briefly:

1. Experiments to recreate (pun intended) mechanistic evolution have only been performed by ID's. God doesn't need to experiment to learn anything.

2. No one has seen macro evolution in the fossil record. Looking at two similar species' fossils is not seeing the thousands of fossils that should go between a tetrapod arm to a cetacean fin and etc.

3. Every time I read Scientific American, it lists multiple "yet as not understood anomalies" that scientists are grappling with. Why are you asking me for something that has countless thousands of examples?

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59 minutes ago, Billiards Ball said:

Sorry, only have five minutes. LOL.

No problem! Maybe we can discuss more later.

1 hour ago, Billiards Ball said:

1. Experiments to recreate (pun intended) mechanistic evolution have only been performed by ID's. God doesn't need to experiment to learn anything.

I guess I just don't understand the point you are trying to make here. Of course God doesn't need to experiment, He is the omnipotent, omniscient Creator. But that still doesn't preclude evolution as a possible tool of His work.

1 hour ago, Billiards Ball said:

2. No one has seen macro evolution in the fossil record. Looking at two similar species' fossils is not seeing the thousands of fossils that should go between a tetrapod arm to a cetacean fin and etc.

The fossil record is indeed incomplete, no argument from me on that point. But there is indeed evidence suggesting macro evolution in the fossil record. The cetacean record is far from complete, but is better than most. For example, the fossil record suggests a series in which the nostrils moved from the front of the face to the top of the head. Now, that could be just a coincidental series of animals that existed simultaneously, but the dating of the fossils suggests otherwise. Check here for more info: https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evograms_03

1 hour ago, Billiards Ball said:

3. Every time I read Scientific American, it lists multiple "yet as not understood anomalies" that scientists are grappling with. Why are you asking me for something that has countless thousands of examples?

I'm asking because you are making a very broad statement with no specifics to support it. If there are indeed countless thousands, then it should be rather easy to give 1-2 examples.

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8 minutes ago, one.opinion said:

No problem! Maybe we can discuss more later.

I guess I just don't understand the point you are trying to make here. Of course God doesn't need to experiment, He is the omnipotent, omniscient Creator. But that still doesn't preclude evolution as a possible tool of His work.

The fossil record is indeed incomplete, no argument from me on that point. But there is indeed evidence suggesting macro evolution in the fossil record. The cetacean record is far from complete, but is better than most. For example, the fossil record suggests a series in which the nostrils moved from the front of the face to the top of the head. Now, that could be just a coincidental series of animals that existed simultaneously, but the dating of the fossils suggests otherwise. Check here for more info: https://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evograms_03

I'm asking because you are making a very broad statement with no specifics to support it. If there are indeed countless thousands, then it should be rather easy to give 1-2 examples.

I'm denying mechanistic evolution in 1) and not theistic evolution.

I'm familiar with the (ever-evolving) evolutionary tree and the many supporting examples. There are no "in between" anything in fossils, ever.

There are billions of fossils extant. My local museum has 4 million fossilized specimens. There are zero examples worldwide of intermediate forms (not species), in terms of despite thousands and millions of bird fossils extant, there are no fossils with 1/2 a wing, 1/4 of a wing, 1/32 of a wing, 2/3 of a wing, etc.

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