justme007 Posted April 1, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 140 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 47 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 1, 2019 That's very interesting, my brother. Here are the questions I have about that: - how big are those vessels compared to a cell. What if we were to compare them to say a hydrogen atom? - the substance that the vessels are made of, is that a solid? What if the vessel were to be subjected to some pressure? - how thick are the vessel's walls compared to its overall size? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xethea Posted April 1, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 262 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 57 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted April 1, 2019 I can disprove evolution in one more sentence if you can understand Genesis chapter 1 and 2. *cough* All creations were made by a supernatural work, in which they didn't come from anything that was already around to evolve or transform or turn into or to create more, but rather simply God made everything out of nothing but His supernatural powers. If I must simply say in other words, God said "let there be light" and there was light. Light from what? God's supernatural power, not a light bulb, not electricity, not Himself because He obviously isn't that ball of heat going around we see every day, but it was simply just like the light He made for this universe, He made all other things from scratch of His supernatural power. If you believe Genesis, you believe God simply made everything out of nothing but miracle works. Therefore, simply evolution cannot be. Everything that was made that has been made is from what God has made, and if God had not made what has been made, then we couldn't make anything else with it. The same idea that Jesus took a tiny bit of fish and bread and out of nowhere multiplied it to feed thousands. Did the fish and bread evolve into more bread and fish? No, it was simply a miracle, He created more out of nothing but supernatural works just like He did everything else. "Science cannot prove creation, because it had no certain way it had to become of what it is, nothing was made with mixing or changing anything, but simply God commanded it to be- and it was. If you don't believe that, you don't believe scripture." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justme007 Posted April 4, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 140 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 47 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 4, 2019 AMEN!!!!!!!!!! Reading the above made me think of another simple way to disprove abiogenesis. 1. Lets assume that the laws of nature are constant, and gravity is constant and doesn't change, and time and space are constant, and the time flows constantly and doesn't start and doesn't stop, and the universe is uniformly filled, like we see on the current universe map. 2. If time flows constantly and doesn't start and doesn't stop and all matter attracts all other matter, then every single unit of space that exists would either be empty, or filled with a black hole or a black hole's jet! 3. Things other then those listed in 2. exist. Therefore we were MIRACULOUSLY CREATED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGOSY Posted April 4, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,695 Content Per Day: 0.45 Reputation: 583 Days Won: 2 Joined: 01/03/2014 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/11/1968 Share Posted April 4, 2019 On 4/1/2019 at 4:37 PM, one.opinion said: This is getting into the area of abiogenesis, or OOL (origin of life) research. There are many larger questions that need to be answered before there is a scientifically acceptable hypothesis for how the first cells came to be. As a side note, I think it is more likely that God actually made the first cells intact, rather than only the chemicals that would develop into the first cell. Most of these larger questions deal with the origin of the macromolecules (nucleic acids, proteins, carbohydrates, and lipids) that make up the cell. Once enough phospholipid is present in an aqueous environment, the phospholipid will naturally form spherical vesicles that contain water and solute - no filling process required. True. The way I see it the building blocks of life are the amino acids, and to produce some of these requires intensive laboratory conditions not found in nature. The problem with creating a hypothesis for abiogenesis is that not only are these conditions never found in nature, these conditions are mutually exclusive. The conditions for the creating of one amino acid are completely the opposite of the conditions required to make some of the others. In the end no-one can even hypothesize how this is possible, because it is literally impossible to have conditions suitable for abiogenesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.opinion Posted April 4, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.11 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 4, 2019 3 hours ago, ARGOSY said: The way I see it the building blocks of life are the amino acids, and to produce some of these requires intensive laboratory conditions not found in nature. The Miller-Urey experiment in 1952 showed that many amino acids could indeed be synthesized in an environment closely simulating conditions believed to be present on a pre-biotic earth - no intensive laboratory conditions needed. As far as I'm aware, though, no one has been able to reproduce a process linking amino acids together into a functional polypeptide. There are also significant gaps in hypothetical explanations for how nucleic acid chains initially arose. There are a few scientists still attempting to recreate these processes, but without much success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.opinion Posted April 4, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.11 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 4, 2019 On 4/1/2019 at 5:30 PM, Xethea said: I can disprove evolution in one more sentence if you can understand Genesis chapter 1 and 2. It is not possible to prove (exhibit beyond any doubt) anything with text. Personally, I choose to place my faith in a holy God as Creator and what He reveals through His Word - I am a sinner and in need of His saving grace through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. In one sense, I am a creationist (I absolutely believe in a Creator), but that does not preclude the possibility that God created life using evolution as a tool. Believing in creation does not require disbelieving evolution - only an atheistic version of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.opinion Posted April 5, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.11 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 5, 2019 On 4/1/2019 at 5:05 PM, justme007 said: how big are those vessels compared to a cell. What if we were to compare them to say a hydrogen atom? Artificial vesicles can range quite a bit, but the largest can be about the size of a typical bacterial cell. On 4/1/2019 at 5:05 PM, justme007 said: the substance that the vessels are made of, is that a solid? What if the vessel were to be subjected to some pressure? The vesicles are basically hollow balls filled with the solvent and solutes present in their environment. The perimeter is made of either a single or double layer of phospholipid. The double layer “membrane” is similar to the membranes surrounding living cells, they just don’t have extra molecules like proteins that are found in living cell membranes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justme007 Posted April 6, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 140 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 47 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 6, 2019 Some thoughts on the general approach: The chances of some event equal to the product of all components of that event. P total = P1*P2*P3*P4... Even if one Pn is equal to zero, the chance of the event occurring is zero. That is what we need to do with the abiogenesis, brothers and sisters. Let's find multiple Px=0! - Back to the above vessels: are they hard and durable enough for cell parts to be mounted on them? To contain cell's life and stay intact basically. - The liquid that fills them: could it be simple water, or does it have to be "special water", like plasma, or blood or some biological liquid? The main question here is: could that liquid occur naturally and be present somewhere in sufficient quantity to fill a cell? - Micro electrical signals. Since cells need to move in order to live, the assumption should be that they have a very well functioning electrical/nerv system. Natural process is not able to produce that and place that inside a container/vessel. That requires multiple solid parts. The vessels described above seem to be homogenous, and only capable of trapping and containing liquid, not solids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one.opinion Posted April 6, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,240 Content Per Day: 2.11 Reputation: 1,356 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/03/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 6, 2019 5 hours ago, justme007 said: That is what we need to do with the abiogenesis, brothers and sisters. Let's find multiple Px=0! Personally, I feel that God directly made the first cells. In my opinion, this probability is greater than the probability of abiogenesis without God and also more likely than God simply allowing chemicals to randomly interact together until life was finally formed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justme007 Posted April 6, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 140 Content Per Day: 0.05 Reputation: 47 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/07/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted April 6, 2019 AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!! No matter what, we must believe that GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MIRACULOUSLY CREATED everything! There are countless evidence! Evidence that we all could see, as well as personal experiences that we can't deny! Brothers and sisters, rejoice and believe!!!! PRAISE THE LORD FOREVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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